Ken Gargett Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 for those who enjoy caramel in their cigars (i guess to be correct, i should say the flavour of caramel), what smoke do you turn to? i ask as recently i have been smoking the last of a box of Ramon Allones Estupendos RR Asia Pacific (TEB Oct 07). they are so amazingly laden with caramel flavours. some creamy coffee, white chocolate as well, but really lovely, rich caramel notes. i am loving them. wish i'd saved the box until now and not had any in the early days, when they were good but nowhere near this good.
Ken Gargett Posted June 15, 2016 Author Posted June 15, 2016 news just in. i just checked the records, and providing i have not cocked them up (more than possible), i have a cabinet of these with the same box code. woo hoo! 4
nav4040 Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 Plpc's come to mind. Or PL opera if you can track them down. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
NSXCIGAR Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 I haven't personally found too much prominent caramel outside of PL. I find hints of it in SCdLH and VR, but to me PL has the market cornered on prominent caramel. Haven't had an Estupendos since 08 or 09, so I'm intrigued that they seem to have become caramel bombs. Sounds like they're beauties now--I too thought they were good but not great back then and didn't recall the caramel overload you're describing.
Ken Gargett Posted June 15, 2016 Author Posted June 15, 2016 not tried the opera but smoked lots of PLPC. like them (i guess i wouldn't have smoked lots if i didn't) but these estupendos have masses more caramel. i went back and looked at some stuff on the forum on these. about a year ago, rob talked about them and compared with a punch. on these, he thought that they had peaked a couple of years earlier. i had also posted and i agreed with him. i thought i had largely missed the window. i did then try another and noted that we were starting to see some caramel and nuts. i'm not seeing the nuts now but the caramel has exploded. just shows how easy it is to get things wrong. they were nowhere near peaking at the time. if rob is interested, i still have a couple in this box and happy to put them up for a vid. 1
Bolismoker Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 Anytime the craving for caramel comes up I reach for the nearest PLPC. Hearing that you are finding the Estupendos to have "loads" more caramel is an intriguing development. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Fugu Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 8 hours ago, Ken Gargett said: not tried the opera but smoked lots of PLPC. like them (i guess i wouldn't have smoked lots if i didn't) but these estupendos have masses more caramel. i went back and looked at some stuff on the forum on these. about a year ago, rob talked about them and compared with a punch. on these, he thought that they had peaked a couple of years earlier. i had also posted and i agreed with him. i thought i had largely missed the window. i did then try another and noted that we were starting to see some caramel and nuts. i'm not seeing the nuts now but the caramel has exploded. just shows how easy it is to get things wrong. they were nowhere near peaking at the time. if rob is interested, i still have a couple in this box and happy to put them up for a vid. The magnificent wonders of aging...
JohnS Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 8 hours ago, Ken Gargett said: news just in. i just checked the records, and providing i have not cocked them up (more than possible), i have a cabinet of these with the same box code. woo hoo! Aah Ken, time to quote the famous idiom, "there is a God!". Hold on, scratch that, I've just learnt Nick Phipps is playing this weekend in Melbourne and Cheika has kept the same centre pairing of Samu Kerevi and Tevita Kuridrani. Ok, time to quote another few famous idioms, "you can't win them all" and "you can't have your cake and eat it too!" 1
joeruby Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 PLPC I'm enjoying currently are caramel sticks, also have some younger PL Montecarlos not as caramely as the PLPC though, but in time..
Smallclub Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 Ah, caramel Before 2004 no one ever associated "caramel" and PLPC. Suddenly, after the release of the MRN Encyclopedia, caramel has become inseparable from this cigar on cigar forums… As I said many times, to me the best aged PLPCs develop a strong taste of honey that has nothing to do with "caramel". This honey taste was sublimated in the 2007 PL Magnificos. Actually the few times when I have experienced "caramel" in a cigar was with good, aged RyJ Exhibicion No4…
Puros Y Vino Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 5 hours ago, Smallclub said: Ah, caramel Before 2004 no one ever associated "caramel" and PLPC. Suddenly, after the release of the MRN Encyclopedia, caramel has become inseparable from this cigar on cigar forums… As I said many times, to me the best aged PLPCs develop a strong taste of honey that has nothing to do with "caramel". This honey taste was sublimated in the 2007 PL Magnificos. Actually the few times when I have experienced "caramel" in a cigar was with good, aged RyJ Exhibicion No4… Palates will vary but I can see caramel and possibly burnt honey intertwined by those grasping to pick what they taste. I don't really get the caramel myself on PLPC's but I can see it being similar to burnt honey. I can see why people make that distinction though. I myself find honey in many Trinidad and LGC lines. Not a burnt variety mind you, more on the fresh, clean tasting side. From your observations, do you find the PLPC blends of yesteryear comparable to recent ones?
Cep Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 Great post Ken. I happen to love the taste of caramel. Who wouldn't? ??
GasGuy82 Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 6 hours ago, Smallclub said: Ah, caramel Before 2004 no one ever associated "caramel" and PLPC. Suddenly, after the release of the MRN Encyclopedia, caramel has become inseparable from this cigar on cigar forums… As I said many times, to me the best aged PLPCs develop a strong taste of honey that has nothing to do with "caramel". This honey taste was sublimated in the 2007 PL Magnificos. Actually the few times when I have experienced "caramel" in a cigar was with good, aged RyJ Exhibicion No4… I have to agree with this. I don't get caramel when I smoke PL's, but what I do get, is this very distinct honey taste. I call it Greek honey, because the taste reminds me of the honey I buy at a roadside stand in the mountains between Kalamata and Sparta whenever I'm back to see family. The rich flavor is completely divorced from honey you buy in a store and even honey I buy from local producers here. When I get that flavor in a PL, it is distinct, mesmerizing and a an overall treat.
Smallclub Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 9 minutes ago, GasGuy82 said: I call it Greek honey, because the taste reminds me of the honey I buy at a roadside stand in the mountains between Kalamata and Sparta wheneverThe rich flavor is completely divorced from honey you buy in a store and even honey I buy from local producers here. When I get that flavor in a PL, it is distinct, mesmerizing and a an overall treat. Exactly. To me it's "mountain honey", the dark variety, which have a strong after taste. Nothing in common with plain, cheap honey. 2
Smallclub Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 50 minutes ago, bundwallah said: From your observations, do you find the PLPC blends of yesteryear comparable to recent ones? In my memories the pre-2002 blend was more evidently aromatic, at a younger age.
El Presidente Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 2 hours ago, Smallclub said: Exactly. To me it's "mountain honey", the dark variety, which have a strong after taste. Nothing in common with plain, cheap honey. more in common with caramel? To me, Caramel is a mix of dark honey and roasted nuts.
Orion21 Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 Caramel is a very specific flavor for me and I associate it with processed candies, which I have never found in cigars. Honey I can see, but the sweetness I most associate with this profile is more like burnt sugar you find on a creme brulee. Brown sugar sweetness is also something I associate, but it all comes back to some sort of caramelized sweetness. Everyone's reference point is going to be a bit different.
westg Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 I had only read for those who enjoy caramel in cigars .....and was already thinking Ramon Allones Estupendos . Caramel in a cigar like no other . I have one left. I am going to fire up a RA Grandes to see where they are at TEB OCT 08 same size cigar I think ( Cepo 49 largo 180mm ) If you have not tried one, let me know and I will send you one Ken to compare . Keep enjoying those Estupendos
JohnS Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 1 hour ago, El Presidente said: more in common with caramel? To me, Caramel is a mix of dark honey and roasted nuts. Yes, exactly. Caramel sauce in pastry cooking is achieved by heating a combination of sugars.
Corylax18 Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 " I never really taste caramel in cigars, maybe burnt sugar though" Its Por Larranaga for me. I don't smoke many PC's but the older the Montecarlos get the more the creamy caramel flavor comes out to me. The trouble is ageing them enough to let those flavors really develop. 2 years and on is when they start getting good for me. I've never gotten past 3 1/2 though. I would imagine that caramel flavor would keep building and building up to a certain age.
Fugu Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 4 hours ago, GasGuy82 said: I have to agree with this. I don't get caramel when I smoke PL's, but what I do get, is this very distinct honey taste. I call it Greek honey, because the taste reminds me of the honey I buy at a roadside stand in the mountains between Kalamata and Sparta whenever I'm back to see family. The rich flavor is completely divorced from honey you buy in a store and even honey I buy from local producers here. When I get that flavor in a PL, it is distinct, mesmerizing and a an overall treat. Yes, and Greek honey can have a distinct caramel touch (depending of course on actual nectar source). The most caramel-ish honey (really, pure creamy caramel) is French bruyère honey from the macchia... a treat! A very intense sense of caramel I am currently getting with the RA 898 ER (2nd third mostly). Not a dark, burnt caramel but more of the creamy toffee type.
GasGuy82 Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 12 minutes ago, Fugu said: Yes, and Greek honey can have a distinct caramel touch (depending of course on actual nectar source). The most caramel-ish honey (really, pure creamy caramel) is French bruyère honey from the macchia... a treat! A very intense sense of caramel I am currently getting with the RA 898 ER (2nd third mostly). Not a dark, burnt caramel but more of the creamy toffee type. In this case, my reference point is Fir honey from Mt. Taygetus. I will make a note to seek out the Bruyere honey from Macchia next time I am in France (which may be sooner than I expected)
Smallclub Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 24 minutes ago, JohnS said: Yes, exactly. Caramel sauce in pastry cooking is achieved by heating a combination of sugars. How "exactly"? If you burn white sugar, the result has nothing common with roasted nuts…
... Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 1 hour ago, JohnS said: Yes, exactly. Caramel sauce in pastry cooking is achieved by heating a combination of sugars. Hi John, caramel sauce is not achieved the way you suggest. By heating sugar in water, you get hard caramel, or candy caramel. Sauce is usually obtained by heating butter and sugar
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