MrGTO Posted April 11, 2016 Posted April 11, 2016 I figured Ken would love this... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/04/08/bruce-springsteen-cancels-n-c-show-to-protest-bathroom-law/
earthson Posted April 11, 2016 Posted April 11, 2016 The southeast just can't help but step all over its manhood in the eternal quest for equality for all white, straight Xtians. 2
MrGinger Posted April 11, 2016 Posted April 11, 2016 Lionsgate Films just pulled a series out of NC and moved it to Vancouver. 1
Ken Gargett Posted April 12, 2016 Posted April 12, 2016 I figured Ken would love this... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/04/08/bruce-springsteen-cancels-n-c-show-to-protest-bathroom-law/ ta for that. it got plenty of coverage here. though interesting way they word it - "bathrooms". nice way to trivialise it. sad, but more than understandable. sad, because i'm sure that a great many of those attending the show agree with him and they are the ones who'll suffer as they miss a great concert.
MrGTO Posted April 12, 2016 Author Posted April 12, 2016 ta for that. it got plenty of coverage here. though interesting way they word it - "bathrooms". nice way to trivialise it. sad, but more than understandable. sad, because i'm sure that a great many of those attending the show agree with him and they are the ones who'll suffer as they miss a great concert. I would guess not considering the majority of people live in NC that were going to the concert.
Ken Gargett Posted April 12, 2016 Posted April 12, 2016 I would guess not considering the majority of people live in NC that were going to the concert. could well be. i was simply making assumptions but i don't really know NC at all. would be interesting to have some sort of breakdown of those who were going and whether they supported the decision or not but i doubt we'll get that. it does leave springsteen in a rather awkward position. everywhere he plays, there will be some issue. how often does he cancel? is one issue more important and deserving of his attention than another?
MrGTO Posted April 12, 2016 Author Posted April 12, 2016 It was interesting to hear the radio today from his fans that he screwed over. The majority are finished and will never go to one of his concerts ever or again. Most of the calls were people tired of musicians and hollywood dipping their hat in politics. 3
soutso Posted April 12, 2016 Posted April 12, 2016 An interesting issue I must say. I am a cleaning contractor and have experience in dealing with complaints about this very issue in facilities that we service. Recently we have an issue with a transgender person (male to female) using the female toilets. This person is dressed in female clothing and has long hair and a beard. (A beard!!) She (or he pending on your view) uses a shopping centre toilet and we have fielded several complaints from centre staff and patrons that are uncomfortable with this. Understandable in my opinion. I haven't seen this person but s/he has been described as tall and masculine looking. This is the underlying problem. Had they been very effeminate and convincing in appearance I would say that people would be more comfortable. Nobody knows how to handle the situation. The police refuse to get involved. Deep down we fear that this opens the door for a pervert or predator to take advantage of this.
Ken Gargett Posted April 12, 2016 Posted April 12, 2016 It was interesting to hear the radio today from his fans that he screwed over. The majority are finished and will never go to one of his concerts ever or again. Most of the calls were people tired of musicians and hollywood dipping their hat in politics. i do not disagree about actors and singers and so-called celebrities all pronouncing on politics as though the world has been waiting for their every utterance. most of them are utter hypocrites. i remember a mate who was involved back in band-aid and a few things of that ilk. said he was so disgusted how these apparent world saviours big-noted themselves at every opportunity (and yes, they certainly did some good) but a good chunk of the proceeds were used to fly themselves around the planet first class so they could convince those with a fraction of their wealth to cough up. i remember how at one election over here, tony colette (or however you spell it - for the vast majority of the world who will have never heard of her, a C grade local actress with delusions of grandeur) coming out and announcing that if the australian public returned the sitting govt then she would never return to australia (i didn't care who was in power, that alone would have made me vote for them). the extraordinary arrogance of these idiots to think that the public could care less. of course, the sitting govt was returned and she promptly forgot her promise. all that said, a few of them have always taken positions and been consistent. and this act by bruce does cost him considerable money (yes, i'm sure he could afford it), which is rarely the case with these celebrities. and suggests the conviction of his position. as for people ringing radio stations, i'd take very little notice. most of them have nothing better to do and a desperate need to feel relevant. most people are far too busy to bother. they'll forget their declarations next time. and i suspect in matters like this, those of a particular position just use it as an excuse to push their cause. i'll bet a fair number of those expressing outrage are simply supporters of that position in the first place and use this to vent and push their barrow. i'll bet a fair number never had any intention of going to the concert. 1
Fuzz AI Posted April 12, 2016 Posted April 12, 2016 So if someone was born male, identified themselves as a really butch lesbian (and they were either pre-op or weren't going ahead with the chop), could they use the women's toilets?
MrGTO Posted April 12, 2016 Author Posted April 12, 2016 i do not disagree about actors and singers and so-called celebrities all pronouncing on politics as though the world has been waiting for their every utterance. most of them are utter hypocrites. i remember a mate who was involved back in band-aid and a few things of that ilk. said he was so disgusted how these apparent world saviours big-noted themselves at every opportunity (and yes, they certainly did some good) but a good chunk of the proceeds were used to fly themselves around the planet first class so they could convince those with a fraction of their wealth to cough up. i remember how at one election over here, tony colette (or however you spell it - for the vast majority of the world who will have never heard of her, a C grade local actress with delusions of grandeur) coming out and announcing that if the australian public returned the sitting govt then she would never return to australia (i didn't care who was in power, that alone would have made me vote for them). the extraordinary arrogance of these idiots to think that the public could care less. of course, the sitting govt was returned and she promptly forgot her promise. all that said, a few of them have always taken positions and been consistent. and this act by bruce does cost him considerable money (yes, i'm sure he could afford it), which is rarely the case with these celebrities. and suggests the conviction of his position. as for people ringing radio stations, i'd take very little notice. most of them have nothing better to do and a desperate need to feel relevant. most people are far too busy to bother. they'll forget their declarations next time. and i suspect in matters like this, those of a particular position just use it as an excuse to push their cause. i'll bet a fair number of those expressing outrage are simply supporters of that position in the first place and use this to vent and push their barrow. i'll bet a fair number never had any intention of going to the concert. I'm sure bruce has plenty of money to stiff people but the "nothing better to do callers" who got stiffed have jobs that they spent real money on to watch a pompous fool spew his garbage instead of sing his silly songs he is over payed for.
Overproof Posted April 12, 2016 Posted April 12, 2016 Nobody knows how to handle the situation. (Pause)
Ken Gargett Posted April 12, 2016 Posted April 12, 2016 i do not disagree about actors and singers and so-called celebrities all pronouncing on politics as though the world has been waiting for their every utterance. most of them are utter hypocrites. i remember a mate who was involved back in band-aid and a few things of that ilk. said he was so disgusted how these apparent world saviours big-noted themselves at every opportunity (and yes, they certainly did some good) but a good chunk of the proceeds were used to fly themselves around the planet first class so they could convince those with a fraction of their wealth to cough up. i remember how at one election over here, tony colette (or however you spell it - for the vast majority of the world who will have never heard of her, a C grade local actress with delusions of grandeur) coming out and announcing that if the australian public returned the sitting govt then she would never return to australia (i didn't care who was in power, that alone would have made me vote for them). the extraordinary arrogance of these idiots to think that the public could care less. of course, the sitting govt was returned and she promptly forgot her promise. all that said, a few of them have always taken positions and been consistent. and this act by bruce does cost him considerable money (yes, i'm sure he could afford it), which is rarely the case with these celebrities. and suggests the conviction of his position. as for people ringing radio stations, i'd take very little notice. most of them have nothing better to do and a desperate need to feel relevant. most people are far too busy to bother. they'll forget their declarations next time. and i suspect in matters like this, those of a particular position just use it as an excuse to push their cause. i'll bet a fair number of those expressing outrage are simply supporters of that position in the first place and use this to vent and push their barrow. i'll bet a fair number never had any intention of going to the concert. I'm sure bruce has plenty of money to stiff people but the "nothing better to do callers" who got stiffed have jobs that they spent real money on to watch a pompous fool spew his garbage instead of sing his silly songs he is over payed for. those with jobs probably have better things to do, ie their jobs, than spend their time whinging. and yes, he obviously set out to stiff people. if you had bothered to take a closer look (and given it was even reported over here so i'm guessing it would not have been that difficult to find out in the states), he announced that there would be full refunds. just the sort of thing you do when trying to stiff someone. he is the one stiffing himself. aside from lost revenue, think of the costs it would have incurred. we can clearly see your perspective. perhaps actually looking at the situation before pompously spewing forth your own garbage might help. i suppose all those who supported bans and embargos on south africa, to their own cost, in opposition to apartheid were pompous fools as well. 4
Mattygukas Posted April 12, 2016 Posted April 12, 2016 An interesting issue I must say. I am a cleaning contractor and have experience in dealing with complaints about this very issue in facilities that we service. Recently we have an issue with a transgender person (male to female) using the female toilets. This person is dressed in female clothing and has long hair and a beard. (A beard!!) She (or he pending on your view) uses a shopping centre toilet and we have fielded several complaints from centre staff and patrons that are uncomfortable with this. Understandable in my opinion. I haven't seen this person but s/he has been described as tall and masculine looking. This is the underlying problem. Had they been very effeminate and convincing in appearance I would say that people would be more comfortable. Nobody knows how to handle the situation. The police refuse to get involved. Deep down we fear that this opens the door for a pervert or predator to take advantage of this. As someone who has had a niece (7 years old) sexually assaulted in a public bathroom, it clearly is against common sense. Either make the full change or change your oil where nature already decided you should go! It's not a *** thing as much as a wrong sex wrong bathroom. (That said, if they pass it at Dallas stadium, I will identify with women while attending the Cowboys cheerleaders locker room!)
PapaDisco Posted April 12, 2016 Posted April 12, 2016 I agree with the Boss . . . rock concert bathrooms are disgusting!!
wabashcr Posted April 12, 2016 Posted April 12, 2016 The unfortunate part is that I'd imagine a good number of people planning on going to the show are coming from Charlotte or the Raleigh area, where the new law has very little support. Same with the NBA threatening to pull the All Star game from Charlotte next year. The urban areas are much more liberal/progressive, but the laws are passed by social conservatives that largely represent rural and suburban areas. Yet it's the urban areas that are harmed the most by these laws. We saw the same thing in Indianapolis when our state government passed a religious freedom act that was seen by many as a license to discriminate. Indianapolis is a relatively progressive place (by Indiana standards, not saying much), and wanted no part of that law. The mayor at the time (a Republican) fought tooth and nail with members of his own party in the legislature to keep it from being passed. But it passed, and the boycotts started rolling in. Indianapolis does quite a bit of convention tourism and hosts a lot of sporting events. The legislature amended the bill within a week or two to make it harder to discriminate. But the damage was already done to Indianapolis. The larger cities in North Carolina are going to suffer the same fate. I have no problem with entertainers taking political stands. It can get a little insufferable at times, but I'd rather support someone who has values and stands by them, even if I don't agree, than someone who only cares about making more money. This is an issue Springsteen feels strongly about, and he has the platform, so why shouldn't he utilize it? The easy thing for him to do would be to stay quiet and take everyone's money. He's alienated a lot of fans by taking a stand, and I think that's admirable. 4
Zigatoh Posted April 12, 2016 Posted April 12, 2016 Refund tickets maybe, but what about non refundable costs such as travel, hotels maybe, hell how many people turned up not knowing it had been cancelled? And as per wabashcr's post, it's a pretty indiscriminate action, his audience could have been from all over. And even those from Nc surely don't all agree with it?! Couldn't he just have got on a soapbox for a few minutes at the start,said his piece, then got on with the show? Either way I can say from experience that pissing people off is not an effective way of changing their opinions!
Popular Post TomF Posted April 12, 2016 Popular Post Posted April 12, 2016 I applaud Springsteen for taking this stance. These are a disgustingly bigoted set of laws being passed in several of the Republican-controlled states and the bathroom issue is just a small part of the problem with these laws. They also allow discrimination angainst LGBT people over a large swath of issues. Personally I'd rather see transgender people use the the toilet assigned to the gender they identify with and I'm sure the bigots will soon learn that they'd also rather not have a lady with a beard standing at the next urinal staring at their junk. 7
Fuzz AI Posted April 12, 2016 Posted April 12, 2016 A lady, bearded or not, wouldn't need to use a urinal... unless she carries a Shewee. 4
joeypots Posted April 12, 2016 Posted April 12, 2016 This NC boycott thing just got serious. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/porn-site-bans-north-carolina-users-due-to-states-anti-lgbt-laws_us_570bd057e4b0885fb50d9a92?7ou323xr 1
TomF Posted April 12, 2016 Posted April 12, 2016 A lady, bearded or not, wouldn't need to use a urinal... unless she carries a Shewee. And many of them do. Nice try at deflecting though...
TCContender Posted April 12, 2016 Posted April 12, 2016 Interestingly downplayed by the media, but the individual that championed the bill to allow men in the women's restrooms (and also locker and shower facilities) is himself a convicted sex offender. http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article64943682.html 1
Fugu Posted April 12, 2016 Posted April 12, 2016 Couldn't he just have got on a soapbox for a few minutes at the start,said his piece, then got on with the show? That's what I thought, too. Whom is he hurting? Springsteen could likewise and perhaps better have used the venue as a forum to transport a strong statement. But probably wouldn't have given him the wide public resonance as it does now. Regarding the case - People arguing with a potential opening of options for perverts...., please reconsider for just one second...: What does that law mean? - Transgender persons (op'ed or not) would need to use the bathroom of that gender, which they have been assigned at birth! Therefore, apart from the intermediates (which have a personal right to be what they are, too!) a perfect - now female - transgender woman would be forced to still go to the men's toilet! And vice versa! That would surely lead to much more irritations as when left alone and allowed to use whichever suits him or her best. And how at all should that be controlled on spot anyway, since the new gender usually is stated in the ID card. The pervert or 'predator' argument therefore is a pretty flawed one. And still, that even wouldn't keep any potential raper or Peeping Tom dressing like a woman and giving a **** what's written in his ID, would it?!
Orion21 Posted April 12, 2016 Posted April 12, 2016 The general public, both Democrats and Republicans TomF, aren't ready for the Transgender discussion. Springsteen is political, but it sucks he punished his own fans for the work of legislators. It doesn't seem very smart to boycott your own fans over a law politicians passed. But then Bruce was never accused of being the sharpest knife in the block, just the loudest. Stick to music and quit sticking it to your fans who paid hard earned money to see you run around stage and sing 30 year old songs . . . 1
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