Tobacco Nazis...High road or low road?

[srbbones]

You responded well. I salute you!

[riazp]

I feel that you handled the situation very well. I have done the same thing at my old appartment. Neighbour would complain, I told them i'm outside on my balcony in my home I'm entitled to do what I want.

If we start giving in, we are all doomed. God bless Havana, you can literally smoke anywhere and no local will complain. Ever.

[sactochris]

in 1996 I was at The Warfield in San Francisco to see Lou Reed. Several people around me were smoking cigarettes and a few were smoking marijuana. It is after all Northern California. Hell, there were even two hippie girls burning a large piece of sage. I lit up a Dunhill and was waiting for Lou to take the stage. A bespectacled gent in a Metallica shirt smoking a Marlboro asked If there was anyway I could put my cigar out and I told him if he took off his glasses I would be glad to put it out in his eye socket.

[NapaNolan]

I think it's something that's a byproduct of the anti-cigarette campaign. I feel that a lot of rational people understand that cigars are not the same as cigarettes but it's unfortunate crossfire. I have never smoked a single cigarette in my life and I'm happy that the number of cigarette smokers is declining (assuming the numbers are true).

My parents are tee-totalling Southern Baptists who never saw alcohol as anything other than a gateway to sin and alcoholism. Now that I've made a career in wine and I'm not homeless I think they see that it's not a black-and-white issue, it has many shades.

I think there's even less awareness of the distinction between cigars and cigarettes, unfortunately, and cigar smokers get a lot of the resulting backlash from black-and-white propaganda.

[Orion21]

I think it's something that's a byproduct of the anti-cigarette campaign. I feel that a lot of rational people understand that cigars are not the same as cigarettes but it's unfortunate crossfire. I have never smoked a single cigarette in my life and I'm happy that the number of cigarette smokers is declining (assuming the numbers are true).

My parents are tee-totalling Southern Baptists who never saw alcohol as anything other than a gateway to sin and alcoholism. Now that I've made a career in wine and I'm not homeless I think they see that it's not a black-and-white issue, it has many shades.

I think there's even less awareness of the distinction between cigars and cigarettes, unfortunately, and cigar smokers get a lot of the resulting backlash from black-and-white propaganda.

On point. Then comes the nastiness and identity side of the politics. When we smoke cigars they can smell we are attacking them personally. That is where I think these nasty confrontations come from. It's the complete inability of people to respect others who don't have the same ideals as they do. They have been convinced in mass that tobacco = cancer. Those who enjoy tobacco should be ostracized, criticized and shamed into compliance. And for those who won't comply - just take away personal choice thru taxation or legislation.

[Ryan]

Maybe I'm lucky but I've never had that happen to me in Ireland. Though I don't stay in hotels here much. Very very few hotels here have smoking rooms anyway.

At smoking areas in bars or restaurants, the worst thing I get is people asking me about what I'm smoking. Which is fine, every now and then.

I had a woman tut at me once at a bullfight when I lit up with some other people. I ignored her, smoking was allowed at that venue. Her husband actually told her to stop annoying us! We certainly weren't the only people smoking there.

[DoubleDD]

I rarely want to hurt somebody!

I have turned a new leaf in my life ....and that would lead to the expulsion form a hotel I love. Non option.

+ i couldn't hit a bloke that much smaller than me. It just isn't right + he was more than likely just having a bad night.

Crikey he was lucky that I didn;t have a few under my belt. Then again maybe I was as well.

it was just the seething anger that got to me. Really....over a cigar?

Haaaa I don't have the temperament to listen to dummies anymore. You are better than I Rob.

[Guest]

hey have been convinced in mass that tobacco = cancer. Those who enjoy tobacco should be ostracized, criticized and shamed into compliance. And for those who won't comply - just take away personal choice thru taxation or legislation.

A bloke who used to be a very good friend of mine was part of the Federal legal team here who was given the task (from the government of the day) of pushing the Plain Packaging laws through.

We were having a discussion one day (at my house, with all my cigar memorabilia on display) and I pointed out the crying shame of all this beautiful cigar artwork being caught in the crossfire in their attempt to reduce cigarette consumption.

He was a very keen wine collector, and I asked him if he would be happy if all wine bottles (regardless of pedigree) needed to be covered in generic labeling and hidden from view. Whilst sympathetic to my frustration, he didn't bat an eyelid replying - "the science is very clear, unlike with alcohol consumed in moderated, measured amounts - there is no clinically safe level of tobacco consumption" he made it clear they were going to be pushing on with their agenda. The lobbies and campaigners would not be individually isolating cigarettes - and that it was a message to the public that all tobacco consumption was evil.

I conceded that the science may well say that, but he didn't seem to grasp, or I didn't articulate well enough, that I didn't need him making decisions on my behalf. The whole Nanny State mentality, and that discussion was a waste of time.

That was the start of a breakdown in our relationship, and I lost a friend that day.

[Orion21]

A bloke who used to be a very good friend of mine was part of the Federal legal team here who was given the task (from the government of the day) of pushing the Plain Packaging laws through.

We were having a discussion one day (at my house, with all my cigar memorabilia on display) and I pointed out the crying shame of all this beautiful cigar artwork being caught in the crossfire in their attempt to reduce cigarette consumption.

He was a very keen wine collector, and I asked him if he would be happy if all wine bottles (regardless of pedigree) needed to be covered in generic labeling and hidden from view. Whilst sympathetic to my frustration, he didn't bat an eyelid replying - "the science is very clear, unlike with alcohol consumed in moderated, measured amounts - there is no clinically safe level of tobacco consumption" he made it clear they were going to be pushing on with their agenda. The lobbies and campaigners would not be individually isolating cigarettes - and that it was a message to the public that all tobacco consumption was evil.

That was the start of a breakdown in our relationship, and I lost a friend that day.

It's sad when these political issues cost people relationships. But sadly I feel that is what these people in the government and lobby want to happen. They want social compliance so that they can control the behavior of the populace. Make them more predicable and fit into the financial and social models they are trying to create. NYC hit a tipping point when King Bloomberg tried to pass a law regulating the size of soda cups - all in the name of public health and safety.

What people do not understand is that these fights for personal liberties are a case study for slippery slope. They start with the killers, like cigarettes, but it never ever stops there. It will over time make its way to fat content in food, sugar content in drinks, fuels in cars and countless other things. All in the name of liberal social agendas designed to save us from our irresponsible selves. If you keep voting for these nanny state representatives who will happily continue to shelve your personal rights for their political power you only have yourselves to blame.

Like I have said in many other posts when was the last time you heard a regulator from the FDA, WHO or any other governmental organization responsible for regulating consumables or behavior say "Yep, I think we've done enough - no need for us anymore we have achieved a perfect balance of personal freedom and protections!"

[squizz]

Crazy! You are allowed to enjoy what you like, just as much as that guy can enjoy what he likes.

Plain rude.

[Guest]

Their argument is that (for example) them drinking wine on their balcony won't harm you, but you smoking will harm them.

I can see their point - but Rob was outside on his balcony for crying out loud!

Their logic is flawed, because it absolves them of their personal responsibility to remove themselves from situations they perceive to be as harmful to themselves. Next they will want to walk down a highway, and demand the cars get out of their way, as it is their right to walk there and remain unharmed.

[Smoker]

Was just enjoying a PL Picadores last night on the balcony......

How selfish! Not that I mind the air pollution, or even the child abuse. But the other night I was shopping for singles at *****INT. I couldn't sample a PL Picadores as they were out of stock!!

[Fugu]

He was a very keen wine collector, and I asked him if he would be happy if all wine bottles (regardless of pedigree) needed to be covered in generic labeling and hidden from view. Whilst sympathetic to my frustration, he didn't bat an eyelid replying - "the science is very clear, unlike with alcohol consumed in moderated, measured amounts - there is no clinically safe level of tobacco consumption" he made it clear they were going to be pushing on with their agenda. The lobbies and campaigners would not be individually isolating cigarettes - and that it was a message to the public that all tobacco consumption was evil.

I conceded that the science may well say that, but he didn't seem to grasp, or I didn't articulate well enough, that I didn't need him making decisions on my behalf. The whole Nanny State mentality, and that discussion was a waste of time.

Above that, Rob, I will ask: Since when has a clinically safe level of exposure, respectively its non-existence, ever been a determinant of governments taking measures and stepping in?!??!

Foul and really shitty argumentation.

[CaptainQuintero]

A bloke who used to be a very good friend of mine was part of the Federal legal team here who was given the task (from the government of the day) of pushing the Plain Packaging laws through.

We were having a discussion one day (at my house, with all my cigar memorabilia on display) and I pointed out the crying shame of all this beautiful cigar artwork being caught in the crossfire in their attempt to reduce cigarette consumption.

He was a very keen wine collector, and I asked him if he would be happy if all wine bottles (regardless of pedigree) needed to be covered in generic labeling and hidden from view. Whilst sympathetic to my frustration, he didn't bat an eyelid replying - "the science is very clear, unlike with alcohol consumed in moderated, measured amounts - there is no clinically safe level of tobacco consumption" he made it clear they were going to be pushing on with their agenda. The lobbies and campaigners would not be individually isolating cigarettes - and that it was a message to the public that all tobacco consumption was evil.

I conceded that the science may well say that, but he didn't seem to grasp, or I didn't articulate well enough, that I didn't need him making decisions on my behalf. The whole Nanny State mentality, and that discussion was a waste of time.

That was the start of a breakdown in our relationship, and I lost a friend that day.

The latest thing in the UK is note it has been 'discovered' that there is no safe level of alcohol that you can consume; just one unit is unsafe and has consequences.

Talk about a slippery slope starting with tobacco, a sugar tax is on the cards now also...

[TheGipper]

One of the local casinos recently changed policy to disallow cigars. I was unaware of the change and enjoying one at the bar and was told I must put it out. All while sitting next to two women smoking cigarettes.

Their idiotic policy is now no cigars, but cigarettes okay. Boy, does that irk me.

I've been tempted to go back and try lighting up a Fonseca with the paper still on. "It's just a large cigarette."

[stogieluver]

I would have answered yes and told him to go %#@* himself, or his ugly wife, whichever he preferred. This answer applies to the fact that he was a foot shorter.

[RDBM]

This kind of thing does my brains in. You're not doing anything unlawful but because it doesn't suit someone else you need to stop. Bollocks ! They need to get a grip and go inside or move room.

[earthson]

I tend to treat those types of people all the same:

I tell them that I will quit smoking when they start. Ends the conversation every time!

[Fugu]

The latest thing in the UK is note it has been 'discovered' that there is no safe level of alcohol that you can consume; just one unit is unsafe and has consequences.

Talk about a slippery slope starting with tobacco, a sugar tax is on the cards now also...

But on the other hand proven toxic/cancerogenic/mutagenic substances being accepted and allowed!

If "clinically safe levels of exposure" really were the determining criterion, we wouldn't have any uranium in our drinking water, no heavy metals in our fish, no PCBs in our olive oil and zero respirable dust coming from our cars' exhausts, just to mention a few. Hundreds and hundreds of counterexamples!

But despite the scientific and even 'political' awareness of those facts, there are legal maximum permissible values for these substances in operation. Non-existence of clinical safe exposure values and MPVs simply don't go together.

The whole political discussion as it is done therefore is hypocritical.

[smokeyjoe01]

How selfish! Not that I mind the air pollution, or even the child abuse. But the other night I was shopping for singles at *****INT. I couldn't sample a PL Picadores as they were out of stock!!

Never mind, you can have one of mine

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[joeruby]

People like that guy over Rob's balcony annoy me no end..

Even when I go out on my deck in my own back yard and light up a cigar, the next door neighbor who's on the closer side of my house, loudly slams the windows shut as if to make his point that the smell is bothering him.

The point should always be made that we are enjoying a legally obtainable product in the few places left in the world where we are still allowed to enjoy them. That being said, I'm all for complying with requests if approached in a fair, polite and reasonable manner, but that's just me.

Here's a thought, we should declare one day of the year ,

'Our Right To Enjoy Cigars' day. International 'ORTEC Day' !!

We can gather together in each city or town around the world on mass and walk down Main st enjoying a cigar.

Add a Cuban band and a few Samba girls dancing, for some atmosphere and color.

What would they do, lock us up??

I reckon our numbers might even increase!...

[winelover]

Maybe it was a show of "parenting bravado" so that the dad can show how much he cares and try to impress his other half.

Either way misplaced and dangerous response from him letting off steam. People who get mad sometimes underestimate who they get mad with. My wife always tells me to back down in any situation, but does the aggressor have any idea what I can do if I go nuts!!!

[polarbear]

There is a café not far from my house that serves (arguably) the best coffee in town.

I am friends with the owner and my missus actually went to work for the café when she was starting out. She did the 6am shift there for the first few months of operation while the place got set up and the owner had a chance to find people she was happy with doing the early shift.

Its a smallish place. It would be the size of the FoH deck with a few extra tables scattered outside.

As soon as the missus started working there we always made a point of going there on a Saturday morning for our coffee. I have a great coffee machine at home and can make a brew just as good as what i'm paying for at this café, we still went cause it was a nice morning ritual and gave us a chance to get our dog out into the world at the same time.

Anyway, I always used to take my pipe with me and enjoy a sweet, fruity blend with my morning brew. Molly (the owner) would often come and sit with us outside, chat to my missus and gush over our dog when she had a spare 15min. She often commented that the blends I smoked always smelt nice and her grandfather used to smoke a pipe.

The missus and I would always pick the outdoor tables that were down wind of people and out of the way, for fear of bothering anybody else with my smoking, I always try to be considerate.

A couple of weekends ago I was enjoy my morning espresso and my pipe, as I have done for a number of months, every Saturday morning in an empty outdoor area. It was hot and I guess no body else wanted to sit in the heat.

Half way through my coffee, Molly comes out and says someone has complained about the smoke and she told me I'd have to put my pipe out.

I put it down and finished my coffee.

The next week, we returned as was the habit and once again I sparked my pipe and drank my coffee. About 5 min later Molly came outside and apologised to me, it seems after I left last week another 2 customer complained to her about the smoking and the outside area was now non smoking due to the customer complaints.

I was one of the first customers at this place when it first opened and have spent thousands there over the time they have been open (4 coffees and breakfast, around $60 a sitting) and the only request I had was that I was allowed to smoke my pipe, in peace.

I said that surly the singular complaints of a couple of random, never been here before customers, weren't as important as keeping a regular, loyal customer happy. Seems its not when it comes to smoking.

I haven't been back since

[jwr0201]

Personally, I'm tired of trying to accomodate those who would be offended by a nice cigar that I had previously been enjoying. I remember an occasion when an older couple sat beside my family and friends on the seawall to watch the 4th of July fireworks. I always bring my cigars and many others smoke cigarettes. The old fart's wife put up a fuss and refused to sit in her chair because of her 'cigar allergy'. Now, these were visitors and not residents and they came after my group had sat down. I proceded to just sit and smoke my stogie, but my wife irritatingly piped up that I might switch chairs, which I did. The old farts were still not satisfied, but I clearly informed them that I had gone as far as I intended. Very tense situation after that. Sometimes when you win, it tends to take away from the enjoyment. Next time, I'll just stay put and warn anyone coming that I will be smoking cigars and they may want to relocate!

[mikemerry]

Well done Prez.....like the rest I've encountered similar dolts while enjoying a cigar.... In Cuba at night (11 ish) a guy brings his kids into the lobby bar. Sits at the table next to ours and complains about the smoke.... I complained about his parenting...kids are like 3 and 5 years old.... These dolts are all the same. I have two kids. I don't smoke around them because I don't bring them to the bar.............yet

These are the people who ruin everything.... They create mediocrity.... I hope he lost his shirt on the Super Bowl!

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