Rejections. What constitutes one?

[El Presidente]

I hope all of you are well and I look forward to getting back tomorrow!

I was asked earlier in the week to take some photo's of what is rejected when I go through a case of cigars.

I think these boxes of Romeo y Julieta Short Churchill explain it pretty well.

Same box code. Same mastercase.

The first box I wouldn't even move to checking construction and aroma. It is an automatic fail for me in terms of wrapper.

It is not that the wrapper is light. I love light wrappers with sheen. Some of the best Cohiba's come that way. Beautiful golden wrappers.

In this case the wrapper is that dry pale paperbark look and feel. In my experience such wrappers enhance no cigar let alone Romeo y Julieta that really benefits from the Rosado wrapper seen in the best of them (The R&J Wide Churchill posted today in the 24:24 are along those lines). Again in my experience/opinion, you only get R&J cherry nuances with the right wrapper.

So, this is a fail.

The second box from this batch is much better.

The wrappers are quite good. The colouring perhaps a touch dark for a cracker Short Churchill but it is not far offand I would spend my own coin on it. It is not a thick wrapper which I avoid. Check aroma at cold, check construction. All good.

So, this is a pass. It would make it into a Hand Picked/HQ.

keep in mind both the above boxes came out of the same case. Same code. The code LAS is what I would call a straight down the middle code. Some great cigars but not many. Mostly good. Too many duds to buy blind if you could avoid it.

So let's move on to H. Upmann Magnum 50 which is a cigar I love and know well. I often talk about the stonefruit nature of the cigar and when members e-mail me or PM me that they get that flavour then I always get a thrill.

Same box code for both the below boxes. BUM OCT 14. Same mastercase. In my experience you can get crackers and crap from BUM....pun not intended

Knowing the Mag 50 well, I won't be getting any stonefruit flavours from the below example. Again, a dry, flaky pale wrapper. In my eyes it is a fail. It is by no means the worst fail I have seen but it is not going to deliver the flavour profile I would like you to experience (in my opinion). A fail.

This is what I am looking for and thankfully found good quantities of. Again, same box code, same mastercase. Construction is spot on, aroma at cold slightly sweet barnyard. HQ.

99 times out of 100 I will find fails in any mastercase of any code. A great mastercase will deliver few fails (yesterdays Montecristo 2 over two separate cases. Rejected only a few boxes). A poor mastercase will reject majority fails (Yesterdays Montecristo 2 search. One case was appalling).

Some codes are consistently good over a period of time. Currently RAE/UME/ULA/EML (there are more).

In relation to box codes, it is often said that all box codes within a mastercase are the same. While this is true on the majority of occasions, it is not gospel as the below case of BBF depicts.

If you have any questions, feel free to fire away. i will answer them when I can to the best of my ability over the course of the next few days.

[LordAnubis]

I always find the "I don't like thick wrappers" comment interesting. With some people believing that the wrapper provides a lot of the flavour to a cigar, wouldn't a thick wrapper provide more flavour than a thinner one?

Thanks for the pics mate!

[Maplepie]

I always find the "I don't like thick wrappers" comment interesting. With some people believing that the wrapper provides a lot of the flavour to a cigar, wouldn't a thick wrapper provide more flavour than a thinner one?

Thanks for the pics mate!

A thick wrapper is one that's harder to burn - then proceeds to give you annoying patterns.

That's in my personal experience with Cubans - not Non-Cubans which seem to be exempt from this rule.

Sent from the Enigma on Tapatalk for BlackBerry 10.

[Guest Robo]

Do mastercases contain boxes all from the same factory?

[forgop]

Just curious if you keep a spreadsheet going that might detail the breakdown of Reject/PE/HQ/PSP by marca and box code over a given year. Would be tedious but interesting to see the patterns.

[El Presidente]

Do mastercases contain boxes all from the same factory?

They Do.

[El Presidente]

Just curious if you keep a spreadsheet going that might detail the breakdown of Reject/PE/HQ/PSP by marca and box code over a given year. Would be tedious but interesting to see the patterns.

No spreadsheet. Would be interesting but would slow me down a little too much. I start a new book at the beginning of each year for the warehouse selections. Reviewing back I get a good idea from the box code and quantities of PSP/HQ/PE in that month. If I have pulled 800 sticks from a Monte 4 case of 1300 then 500 have failed in that code. No...I won't be gong back and doing the spreadsheet

* Note : Fail is my opinion only. Definition of Fail = I wouldn't spend my money on them. Nothing more. Nothing less.

I came across a case of SUE today in D4. Now I have found some excellent SUE but in D4 at least it has been a poor code (in D4 and CORO). One of those where you know it is going to be a tough ask. Opened 6 boxes, threw up and moved on to a different case and thankfully a different code. Again, i have pulled some excellent SUE boxes over the last 18 months but it is a left skew code across everything that I have seen. SUE has produced some cracker boxes but a ton of fails. Very little middle ground

Of course what is good one month in a code can be poor next (same cigar). BRS is one of those, EAG,USE, MER others. I have pulled PSP/HQ from each of them but they are a tough ask most times.

Interestingly MUO produces few PSP but the consistency is excellent and very few fails. POU, UME, TUP MUL LOA are others in the same vein. LTB/LUB/ULA/MUS/ORA/RUS are also solid performers.

Nothing above is meant to portray hard and fast rules. Just a guide as how I see it. If I was buying blind from XYZ vendor and they had a boxes of CORO with SUE and LTB...I know I would be purchasing the LTB if push came to shove. With LTB you would have (from the hip) an 80% chance of being happy buying blind. SUE far far less chance. Mind you I would buy blind UME/POU/MUO over LTB. They have proven to be a cut above (skewed more to the right of the quality bell curve).

[JohnS]

It looks like the masterclass boxes have a nice sheen and oil in the wrappers whereas the duds look lifeless and dull. In this case, as the wrappers lack that sheen and oil in the wrapper, no amount of aging will help to improve them. Would I be correct in that statement?

Also, I picked up some nice Hoyo de Monterrey San Juan cigars in a recent 24:24 and the wrappers on those were lighter in colour. I have a feeling HdM cigars are milder cigars and hence their wrappers are not as 'maduro' as those pictured above. I am hypothesizing though Rob, I don't have your experience and knowledge on whether milder cigars tend to have lighter wrappers.

P.S. Just had another look at my HdM's...they have that nice sheen to them like the images above.

[El Presidente]

It looks like the masterclass boxes have a nice sheen and oil in the wrappers whereas the duds look lifeless and dull. In this case, as the wrappers lack that sheen and oil in the wrapper, no amount of aging will help to improve them. Would I correct in that statement?

John there are plenty around the globe who believe that the wrapper makes precious little difference. There are others such as myself who believe it makes a great deal of difference. I respect the alternate opinion, just don't agree with it.

I would never spend my coin on yellow paperbark lifeless wrappers. I would walk over broken glass to purchase pale wrappers with a touch of oil in CORO/Lancero/Esplendido/Monte 3/ some Upmann and a few others. It suits them. I wouldn't do it in most Monte/Partagas/Bolivar. Just not to my taste as fine, tensile, oily colorado/colorado maduro wrappers work best to my taste.

. Mind you I have had some excellent cigars with bone ugly wrappers. I have had some crap cigars with great wrappers. I have just had a ton more of the former rather than the latter. Blend is always obviously a core component.

It is not rocket science that if you have the ability to walk in a B&M and choose your own box, you would more than likely choose the good looking cigars above given construction being equal.

Obviously my opinion only.

[Balboa]

Hi Rob,

I'm curious to know if you notice a big difference in quality from the cigars rolled in Havana as opposed to satellite factories located in Holguin, Cienfuegos, etc.

[airtrade]

Great info.

Thanks for doing all this footwork. Over the last year or so I have learned myself how much more I enjoy the smokes here compared to blind buys.

Just curious can you show pics of the master cases and what the operation your doing looks like? I understand this may not be allowed.

I thought the factory codes were switched randomly so there is no way to follow one code for quality, true?

[Smallclub]

They Do.

Then OPG (in October) and ULA (in November) are the same factory?

[Rushman]

Awesome info Pres. Just one more reason why we are here. Good stuff. Tough job but someone's gotta do it eh?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[forgop]

No spreadsheet. Would be interesting but would slow me down a little too much. I start a new book at the beginning of each year for the warehouse selections. Reviewing back I get a good idea from the box code and quantities of PSP/HQ/PE in that month. If I have pulled 800 sticks from a Monte 4 case of 1300 then 500 have failed in that code. No...I won't be gong back and doing the spreadsheet

* Note : Fail is my opinion only. Definition of Fail = I wouldn't spend my money on them. Nothing more. Nothing less.

I came across a case of SUE today in D4. Now I have found some excellent SUE but in D4 at least it has been a poor code (in D4 and CORO). One of those where you know it is going to be a tough ask. Opened 6 boxes, threw up and moved on to a different case and thankfully a different code. Again, i have pulled some excellent SUE boxes over the last 18 months but it is a left skew code across everything that I have seen. SUE has produced some cracker boxes but a ton of fails. Very little middle ground

Of course what is good one month in a code can be poor next (same cigar). BRS is one of those, EAG,USE, MER others. I have pulled PSP/HQ from each of them but they are a tough ask most times.

Interestingly MUO produces few PSP but the consistency is excellent and very few fails. POU, UME, TUP MUL LOA are others in the same vein. LTB/LUB/ULA/MUS/ORA/RUS are also solid performers.

Nothing above is meant to portray hard and fast rules. Just a guide as how I see it. If I was buying blind from XYZ vendor and they had a boxes of CORO with SUE and LTB...I know I would be purchasing the LTB if push came to shove. With LTB you would have (from the hip) an 80% chance of being happy buying blind. SUE far far less chance. Mind you I would buy blind UME/POU/MUO over LTB. They have proven to be a cut above (skewed more to the right of the quality bell curve).

Understood. I know it'd make the process even slower and not really add any value.

You released your top 30 that seemed to deliver the highest quality for 2014. What might a bottom 5-10 marcas that seemed to deliver the most rejects as a percentage from your inspection standards?

[peterk814]

Pres has a grading video that shows how he selects from a case.

[BlueClaw]

thank you for that. I can see the difference very clearly. I don't know how bad the taste are for the fails since your fails never get into my hands. thank you for taking the time.

[zrotfus]

You released your top 30 that seemed to deliver the highest quality for 2014.

Man I'd love to check that out! Do you happen to know what that thread was titled? Can't seem locate it through the search.

Also prez this is fascinating for a newb like me to get to see these comparisons, thanks for posting this! Hard to believe such variation exists in wrappers, same code same case but seeing is believing!

[wabashcr]

I'm sure this has been asked and answered ad nauseam, but am I correct in that all reject/fail boxes go back to the supplier? If I buy blind from *****int, I'm not at risk of any of these fails am I? I've only bought graded/hand picked from FOH sales, but have always wondered, if I buy blind from the site, will I get at least decent PE quality? That's always been my assumption, but never knew for sure how *****int buys compare to what's offered here.

[wabashcr]

Man I'd love to check that out! Do you happen to know what that thread was titled? Can't seem locate it through the search.

Also prez this is fascinating for a newb like me to get to see these comparisons, thanks for posting this! Hard to believe such variation exists in wrappers, same code same case but seeing is believing!

http://www.friendsofhabanos.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=121095

FYI it's pinned at the top of the Polls subforum.

[TypicalSituation]

Brilliant pics here. I always wondered what side by side good and rejected looks like, so it's nice to finally understand that. I can honestly say, and agree with others, that I had bought blind before and was less than impressed with the sticks. Having bought from our host, I have yet to be disappointed. Worth the time, effort, and cash to do so.

[mash]

So Rob, no issue returning boxes that you've opened?

[torsion]

Really appreciate this post El Pres -

[gr8eman]

Thanks a ton Rob,

I have learned most of what I need to know about cigars from you. Here in the states I think most folks do not have a good perspective on cigars in general due to the fact that Cubans do not circulate and we get a skewed aspect of the cigar world. Everyone I talk to asks me why Cubans are so much better than other cigars, and I tell them because they've been making them for a long time (tradition) and good quality tobacco. Not that there isn't good quality elsewhere, but EVERY cigar store owner here in Virginia has told me his cigars were better than Cubans.

The first one who told me that sold me a $10 cigar, I lit it, took 3 puffs, and pitched it! Considering you can get a BBF for about $8 that is outrageous...never again!

Also, after watching the blind tasting you guys did a few years ago, there was no question in my mind that CCs are the best...they just are. When I first starting watching your reviews, I could hardly stand that hobo guy, but it was worth it to hang on through the video...after he picked the Cuban/non-Cubans spot on, I was impressed and now understand how you can stand watching your cigars get chomped up.

[CigarEnthusiast]

So let's move on to H. Upmann Magnum 50 which is a cigar I love and know well. I often talk about the stonefruit nature of the cigar and when members e-mail me or PM me that they get that flavour then I always get a thrill.

Hey Rob can you elaborate on stonefruit taste? That is a wide range of fruit for me.

Edited February 26, 2015 by Ginseng
CE, I just snipped the quote as you inquired about a specific point and it's good to keep the thread compact.

[moryc]

Very informative post. Thanks for all the info prez.