Terrorist attack on school 140 dead.

[Shikar]

To kill 140 kids.....is something my mind can not understand. I am originally from Pakistan and it is not the country I remember from a couple of decades ago.

I am sad.

I pray and know the kids will go to heaven and I pray and know the killers will go to hell.

Regards.

[Fuzz AI]

Completely senseless and immoral to hurt innocent children, let alone brutally murdering them. The murderers didn't get what the deserved; death is too painless a punishment.

I can't even begin to imagine the pain and heartache all those families are going through.

[Ken Gargett]

beyond comprehension.

i remember when i visited pakistan many years ago how fabulous the kids were. always asking about cricket in australia and wanting you to have a hit with them. that was in places like quetta and peshawar - fabulous town when i was there, loved it. lahore was amazing. i loved the entire place.

there is, sadly, nothing that can be done to these scum that in any way could bring about justice.

not that one wishes to condone unorthodox interrogation of suspects, and possibly not specifically relevant here, but all this navel gazing when 'the opposition' is out slaughtering kids in pakistan and innocents here and elsewhere, makes you wonder.

personally, i think any of these scum caught alive should be tortured to the full extent possible before being shot and then desecrated in any manner that contravenes any supposed religious crap they may spout. and those recovered after being killed should be denied any form of religious burial. feed their corpses to the pigs.

[Habano]

Interesting to see the Taliban attack their own in Pakistan. Especially after all Pakistan has done to give them a home and breeding grounds.

Regardless, sad to see young and innocent lives lost for someone elses cause.

[Perla]

I really do not know what to say. Killing kids - absolutely senseless - it really hurts.

Love, thoughts and prayers to the families.

[Ken Gargett]

Interesting to see the Taliban attack their own in Pakistan. Especially after all Pakistan has done to give them a home and breeding grounds.

Regardless, sad to see young and innocent lives lost for someone elses cause.

but they have a track record - think of the shooting of malala for speaking out on kids' education.

i would add to what i said above that it is not intended to be specifically anti-islam. rather, i'd do that to anyone of any purported religion who commits similar acts in the name of their "religion".

[Shikar]

The Taliban have been killing in Pakistan for years. Killing in mosques and everywhere. Hundreds have been killed every single year. Tens of thousands of innocent Pakistanis and Muslims have died at their hands in the war on terror.

They are not of "their own". I am a Pakistani originally and also a muslim. The Taliban are animals that have killed thousands of Pakistanis over past years.

This is the first time it was publicized widely just as Malala was.

Taliban and their maniacal ideology is used by terrorists through the world and Muslims get blamed. I am telling you this is not Islam. Just as the terrorist in Australia was holding a Flag of Islam. It is condemned by all Muslims.

Muslims are getting a terrible rep for what these animals are doing and every single Muslim I know condemns them.

The cause is terrorism. Sadly these people and that whole country of Afghanistan was trained to kill in the name of God. To kill the Russians. And they successfully removed the Russians in that proxy war. The Soviet Union collapsed! I was in Pakistan when they were heroes. The Mujahideen. They only know to kill. They are animals, just the landscape has changed. But the animals have persisted and their sick ideology. They were literally weaponized and totally supported by Pakistan also, now there is no way to contain them.

Sorry for my rant. It is not Islam. It is terrorism.

Regards.

[Ken Gargett]

The Taliban have been killing in Pakistan for years. Killing in mosques and everywhere. Hundreds have been killed every single year. Tens of thousands of innocent Pakistanis and Muslims have died at their hands in the war on terror.

They are not of "their own". I am a Pakistani originally and also a muslim. The Taliban are animals that have killed thousands of Pakistanis over past years.

This is the first time it was publicized widely just as Malala was.

Taliban and their maniacal ideology is used by terrorists through the world and Muslims get blamed. I am telling you this is not Islam. Just as the terrorist in Australia was holding a Flag of Islam. It is condemned by all Muslims.

Muslims are getting a terrible rep for what these animals are doing and every single Muslim I know condemns them.

The cause is terrorism. Sadly these people and that whole country of Afghanistan was trained to kill in the name of God. To kill the Russians. And they successfully removed the Russians in that proxy war. The Soviet Union collapsed! I was in Pakistan when they were heroes. The Mujahideen. They only know to kill. They are animals, just the landscape has changed. But the animals have persisted and their sick ideology. They were literally weaponized and totally supported by Pakistan also, now there is no way to contain them.

Sorry for my rant. It is not Islam. It is terrorism.

Regards.

agree completely re the not islam comment.

the time i spent, granted a long while ago, in the middle east and in various islamic countries was a million miles from the way these places are now so often portrayed. the generosity and hospitality to a complete stranger was amazing. who knows whether that was simply the people or if it was the people following tenets of their religion.

it is no secret i am not fond of any religion but, whether one is pro, anti or neutral on islam, the thugs and terrorists have nothing to do with it.

remember timothy mcveigh. most christians i know would be horrified to be associated with his actions. the munich massacre at the olympics still resonates yet the "christian" link to the 1996 olympic bombing seems conveniently ignored.

it makes as much sense to blame all muslims for the acts of terrorists and thugs as it does to blame all christians for mcveigh et al.

but wouldn't the world be a better place if religion and gods had never been invented.

[pbibby]

agree completely re the not islam comment.

the time i spent, granted a long while ago, in the middle east and in various islamic countries was a million miles from the way these places are now so often portrayed. the generosity and hospitality to a complete stranger was amazing. who knows whether that was simply the people or if it was the people following tenets of their religion.

it is no secret i am not fond of any religion but, whether one is pro, anti or neutral on islam, the thugs and terrorists have nothing to do with it.

remember timothy mcveigh. most christians i know would be horrified to be associated with his actions. the munich massacre at the olympics still resonates yet the "christian" link to the 1996 olympic bombing seems conveniently ignored.

it makes as much sense to blame all muslims for the acts of terrorists and thugs as it does to blame all christians for mcveigh et al.

but wouldn't the world be a better place if religion and gods had never been invented.

Agree with everything but the last part.

These people deserve far worse than any pain they experienced in death.

[Ken Gargett]

Agree with everything but the last part.

These people deserve far worse than any pain they experienced in death.

i am prepared to concede that not everyone will agree with the last part. however...

[pbibby]

i am prepared to concede that not everyone will agree with the last part. however...

Haha. Good. And I will prepared to concede that people think differently than I do, as well. But I think we can all agree that these people deserve far worse than anything in the CIA report.......

[...]

i am prepared to concede that not everyone will agree with the last part. however...

I agree with you that absence of religion is a step in the right direction if mankind is to come together and function as an undivided group but mofos would find other excuses to act violently... Obviously only 2 cents worth

[soutso]

Horrible.

It's time I educate myself about this group and what they are trying to achieve. What could they possibly desire? Bloody hell.

[TheDistrictJP]

timothy McVeigh was raised catholic, an atheist and set the bomb off to protest the federal government. Are you referring to some other timothy McVeigh so as to compare modern day Christians to al queda? That sounds like something you'd hear on NPR or MSNBC.

agree completely re the not islam comment.

the time i spent, granted a long while ago, in the middle east and in various islamic countries was a million miles from the way these places are now so often portrayed. the generosity and hospitality to a complete stranger was amazing. who knows whether that was simply the people or if it was the people following tenets of their religion.

it is no secret i am not fond of any religion but, whether one is pro, anti or neutral on islam, the thugs and terrorists have nothing to do with it.

remember timothy mcveigh. most christians i know would be horrified to be associated with his actions. the munich massacre at the olympics still resonates yet the "christian" link to the 1996 olympic bombing seems conveniently ignored.

it makes as much sense to blame all muslims for the acts of terrorists and thugs as it does to blame all christians for mcveigh et al.

but wouldn't the world be a better place if religion and gods had never been invented.

[kwsaw63]

Despite what these sick extremists (to call them Islamists is an insult to Islam) would claim, more muslims are killed by these so called defenders of Islam than by non-muslims (besides this attack, just look at what IS is doing in Syria and Iraq). It is incomprehensible to me what possible purpose can be achieved by this slaughter of innocents.

One unfortunate effect of the internet age, is that extremists (of all kinds) are able to spread their hate & poison more rapidly and easily. It is time that the rest of us (the silent majority) stand up and speak out against it. In my home country of Malaysia, 25 prominent bureaucrats & academics have recently penned an open letter against the racist and extremist muslim groups that have sprung up in the last decade and the failure of the Malaysian government to contain them.

http://www.straitstimes.com/the-big-story/asia-report/malaysia/story/prominent-malays-slam-malaysian-govt-open-letter-20141209

I also applaud the Aussies who, in the wake of the recent Martin Place attack in Sydney, have also stood up and started #Illridewithyou to support and protect innocent muslims against unwarranted anti-muslim sentiment.

[Ken Gargett]

timothy McVeigh was raised catholic, an atheist and set the bomb off to protest the federal government. Are you referring to some other timothy McVeigh so as to compare modern day Christians to al queda? That sounds like something you'd hear on NPR or MSNBC.

i'd always heard that mcveigh was christian and that was part of the underlying reasoning behind his bombing - apols if not so (i understood he'd been confirmed and before execution took the catholic sacrement, whatever that means - no idea, but it hardly sounds like the actions of an athiest). but if not so, there are certainly many other examples - atrocities commited by christians, whether in the name of christianity or not. ditto pretty much all religions.

i have no idea what npr or msnbc are.

but your comment "compare modern day Christians to al queda" is pretty much what much of the west does with modern day muslims. lines them all up as terrorists. my point, which i would have thought was absolutely clear unless someone wishes to deliberately misrepresent it, is that it is as absurd/unfair to compare every day christians with fundamentalist fanatics/terrorists as it is to compare modern day muslims with fundamentalist fanatics/terrorists. my point is exactly the opposite of what you seem to imply.

have a look at the abuse and misery inflicted on so many innocent children by many catholic priests. and the way the catholic church has covered it up and protected the perpetrators. should all christians be smeared because of this? so should all muslims be smeared because of the actions of some?

my other point, which is also fairly clear and which i acknowledge is not going to receive universal agreement is how much better the world would be without religion.

[topdiesel]

This thread is getting pretty intense. Most likely, no one is going to change anyone's political, religious, or other core beliefs on a cigar forum. One of my favorite things about this site is that people from different countries with different perspectives can discuss cigars, pipes, art, food, and beverage. Most will agree that children should never have to deal with the atrocities that just occurred.

That being said, I need to admit that I really prefer to come to this site to escape from all the real world tragedy.

[HarveyBoulevard]

I'm a pretty reasonable and objective person but those photos were uncalled for. State you point. Be heard. Voice your opinion. That was unnecessary.

[Shikar]

I do not want to get into, a your religion vs my religion or your God vs my God match. We should think above that and sit down together and enjoy a good cigar. In peace and harmony my friends. There are billions of peaceful people who are not represented by these monsters.

Terrorists want to divide us. They want us to hate each other. They want us to view each other with suspicion. We cannot let them succeed.

Let us not let that happen. Please.

Smoke a good cigar and, pray for/think of, all those that have died due to these monsters.

Smile and hug your family my friends. Cheers.

Regards.

[leftimatic]

I do not want to get into, a your religion vs my religion or your God vs my God match. We should think above that and sit down together and enjoy a good cigar. In peace and harmony my friends. There are billions of peaceful people who are not represented by these monsters.

Terrorists want to divide us. They want us to hate each other. They want us to view each other with suspicion. We cannot let them succeed.

Let us not let that happen. Please.

Smoke a good cigar and, pray for/think of, all those that have died due to these monsters.

Smile and hug your family my friends. Cheers.

Regards.

Well said. Thank you.

And thank you to whoever had the good sense to remove those pics.

My wife looked over my shoulder and was horrified. That's not the impression I want her to have of a great forum like this.

[LordAnubis]

Holy moly!!!

People have their beliefs and they should all be allowed the opportunity to practise whatever they choose to believe in. The one thing to remember is that no matter what religion, what race, what nationality, at the end of the day the group you attribute yourself to will always be judged by the members within it. We are not our brothers keepers. It is not a Muslims responsibility to denounce the actions of Al Qaida, it is not a Christians responsibility to denounce the actions of pedophile Priests.

There are sick bastards all around the world no matter what religion or gender or skin colour or sexual orientation. It is up to us as moral human beings to fight against THEM... not the religion they claim to be part of or the race or gender.

[El Presidente]

You go out for a few hours.

I take responsibility for cleaning up the thread. If there is a problem, address it to myself.

Today's events were a tragedy. We all agree on that.

In my opinion, there is no religious war going on in the world today. There is certainly however a war against humanity cloaked in religious garb.

Those who pick up the flag on the side of anti humanity should be challenged, fought and persecuted/prosecuted.

[Sophistic]

guilty by association is obviously total bs and everybody should be judged by his/her own actions but to say this has absolutely nothing to do with religion is like saying that persecution of homosexuals in christian and jewish countries/communities had nothing to do with the old testament. there is a difference between being fair minded and lying to yourself. to be respecful also means to be honest and then you have to acknowledge that as jew, christian, muslim to live in a modern society you have to ignore or diminish certain parts of your holy books.

[CaptainQuintero]

I think it comes down to a lack of respect for life on all sides. I don't mind if someone is a through and through nazi as long as they don't harm anyone in any way.

It's become the total norm these days to not care about other humans if they are even slightly different to you.

Glorifying the military more than doctors or nurses, innocent lives lost as "Acceptable collateral" while bombing others, ignoring or crushing protests, kidnapping, massacring others if their beliefs are different to yours.. Etc etc

Humanity needs a wake up and a leader like Gandhi or MLK now more than ever. Whatever we've tried to do to combat hate we've just ended up being consumed by it. You can't fight fire with fire.

Just a horrible tragedy yesterday, no words to adequately describe it.

[NweakO]

Religious beliefes are between you and your god. If I am a muslim, christian, jew or whatever no sheikh or priest gets to tell me what or what not to do. That is between me and my god. That is what muslim countries suffer from imo. I am currently in Saudi Arabia, been going back and forth for a while. Saudi Arabia especially has a reputation of being ultra conservative and a tad bit too extreme with regard to their beliefs, even among other muslim countries. From what I have seen, most people here want to live a normal life, but they have these "religious" or "moral" police. They close stores during prayer time, they make sure if your wife/daughters are dressed properly, etc... Too many people playing god. But it is the government that backs them up (even if they themselves don't like them), cause they know without them they have no control over the people. They know you can only control these people by religion.