Sir Winston

[ewipper]

Since it's clear that you think the entire CC industry is corrupt, and you clearly hate the whole industry, then why are you here?

Me, I come here to get peoples opinions on flavor profiles, find good deals on CCs, and generally have a good time. I don't consider conspiracy theories to be part of that.

Funny thing, judges will tell you that you can always find the flaw in logic when a person uses the word "clearly." "Hate the whole industry"? Tabacalera makes fantastic cigars, the best in the world. That doesn't mean you can take what they say at face value. Buyer beware still applies.

Understanding the industry is how you find good deals on cigars. Back to the original thread topic and tying it to your comment, I do not think it is a good deal to spend $400 on a box of Sir Winston that tastes nothing like a h upmann cigar, sorry. $1000 is a good deal on a box that does.

Understanding the industry, Cuban or nonCuban takes time, decades. You cant do it unless you love it.

[DrunkenMonkey]

This is only partly off-topic: is there still a way to ignore people with the redone website?

[dafrey23]

Funny thing, judges will tell you that you can always find the flaw in logic when a person uses the word "clearly." "Hate the whole industry"? Tabacalera makes fantastic cigars, the best in the world. That doesn't mean you can take what they say at face value. Buyer beware still applies.

Understanding the industry is how you find good deals on cigars. Back to the original thread topic and tying it to your comment, I do not think it is a good deal to spend $400 on a box of Sir Winston that tastes nothing like a h upmann cigar, sorry. $1000 is a good deal on a box that does.

Understanding the industry, Cuban or nonCuban takes time, decades. You cant do it unless you love it.

But what you are saying is that none of us can possibly get a good box without connections. That isn't remotely true and thus far everything you have said in this thread has been negative speculation backed up by nothing but your "sources". Sorry but I will put my trust in the people around here who have a long track record rather than a conspiracy theory alarmist. Good day sir.

[ewipper]

But what you are saying is that none of can possibly get a good box without connections. That isn't remotely true and thus far everything you have said in this thread has been negative speculation backed up by nothing but your "sources". Sorry but I will put my trust in the people around here who have a long track record rather than a conspiracy theory alarmist. Good day sir.

You have a connection, you have El Presidente who is brilliant at choosing cigars. I am not suggesting at all the conclusion that you draw from my previous posts. I am saying that experience will serve you better than relying solely on what band is on a cigar in meeting your expectations when you buy. You will find more consistent cigars you will enjoy more.

If you can't see how experience affects finding good cigars and is further to what you assert is your purpose in reading the forum, well, i suggest you join Drunkmonkey in his search for the ignore button.

[dafrey23]

You have a connection, you have El Presidente who is brilliant at choosing cigars. I am suggesting to the contrary. That experience will serve you better than relying solely on what band is on a cigar.

If you can't see how experience affects finding good cigars and is further to what you assert is your purpose in reading the forum, well, i suggest you join Drunkmonkey in his search for the ignore button.

Moving the goalposts. You asserted that you needed to spend a decade developing connections to get good cigars. That is obviously not true. I don't know if you're just trying to get your post count up or what, but I'm done battling wits with an unarmed man.

Good day sir.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[ewipper]

Moving the goalposts. You asserted that you needed to spend a decade developing connections to get good cigars. That is obviously not true. I don't know if you're just trying to get your post count up or what, but I'm done battling wits with an unarmed man.

Good day sir.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

Where did I "assert" that? Quote the post.

Wit is a poor replacement for facts and logic. I concede to you on wit.

[dafrey23]

Where did I "assert" that? Quote the post.

Wit is a poor replacement for facts and logic. I concede to you on wit.

I said good day sir.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[Smallclub]

You asserted that you needed to spend a decade developing connections to get good cigars.

Uh? This is absolutely not what he said…

[dafrey23]

Uh? This is absolutely not what he said…

If you look at all his posts as a whole this is what has been asserted...

1. The sir Winston is not a unique cigar and is using the same tobacco as cohiba.

2. They are the same because they are made in the same factory.

3. Not only are they the same, but there is a shortage of Sir Winston because they can make more money by re -banding them with cohiba bands.

4. This re-banding is a conscious decision made by a corrupt oranization.

5. The only way past this corruption is to spend a lot of time developing sources and "analyzing" the industry.

No actual proof has been provided to back up any claims. There is no point continuing this thread unless someone has some real information that isn't wild speculation from some unknown inside "sources".

I'm not saying crazy things don't happen, but I also find it irresponsible to suggest that they are re-banding sir Winston tobacco with cohiba bands without any proof. Especially since we have reviews that show they have different flavors.

As I have nothing of value to add to this thread besides my general disgust with its conspiracy theory nature, I will be moving on to other threads.

[ewipper]

What's "Sir Winston tobacco?"

[ewipper]

No doubt - for me consistency (or lack thereof) is one of the banes of the Cuban cigar. But I also feel that Cuban cigars typically share more similarities than differences - blind tasting can be humbling.

There is no doubt that the Cuban cigar industry is not immune to "shenanigans" - would it surprise me to learn that if they ran out of a particular cigar on a run, let's say, that they might simply use the bands on other cigars? No. I would hope they wouldn't but I'd not be the least bit surprised.

Anyway, I guess this is a discussion for another time....

This to me is a very astute analysis of a critical problem holding back Habanos. And the reason that cigar aficionado doesnt have more cuban cigars in the top 25 even though very few rate lower than 90 issue to issue. All the more reason to have someone on the ground with expertise choosing cigars for you box to box.

[Zigatoh]

That's pure gold. CAs top 25 doesn't have more Cubans in due to consistency issues. Thanks for clearing that one up once and for all Eddie.

[Dozerhead]

What's "Sir Winston tobacco?"

I am pretty sure you knew what he meant.

Everything you've said regarding Habanos is plausible and may actually be true, but for someone who has used a couple of law references in this thread so far, your case seems to be built completely on speculation and conjecture, not actual evidence.

[Colt45]

There is no point continuing this thread......

Sometimes discussions meander - perhaps considering topics here discussions versus threads makes me a bit of a throwback - I'm pretty much not part of the "Like" generation, but I digress. If we address the simple original question, there probably is no need to terminate the discussion - there will almost always be supposition where we might not always know, for sure, the reason(s), but that's how these things often go.

If we truly believe someone to be disingenuous, sometimes it may be best not to engage them.......

[Orion21]

Just because the industry is run by communists/socialists does not mean its all bad. There are plenty of employees who take pride in their work.

The Sir Winston is a special cigar that with time can be an amazing smoke. This whole thread has jumped the shark big time.

[ewipper]

I am pretty sure you knew what he meant.

Everything you've said regarding Habanos is plausible and may actually be true, but for someone who has used a couple of law references in this thread so far, your case seems to be built completely on speculation and conjecture, not actual evidence.

Yes, i know what he meant, but I also think it is a misconception about Cuban cigars that buys into marketing and advertisement without regard to flavor, which is all I am interested in distilling.

I have not been making a case for anything. Ive been sharing my thoughts on flavors and trends in current production based on what I have sampled and filtered through my own experiences with cigars and the way corporations do business.

You can feel free and should feel free to disagree. I cannot tell anyone what to buy or what to like. I find, though, that the more rigorous my analysis is of the cigars I like, based on all information available, the less disappointments I suffer with the boxes i choose to purchase. There is consistency in Cuban cigars for me, because there is consistency in how I choose them.

[LouisMazzini]

There is consistency in Cuban cigars for me, because there is consistency in how I choose them.

Spot on IMHO. Well said.

[ewipper]

Eddie, if you think that $1000 is a good price for a good box of Sir Winstons, then you're not as discerning a buyer as you'd like to think. It doesn't take years to find good sources, and it's not alchemy. Just find a source you trust, and then you don't have to worry about fakes. But if you're getting Sir Winstons that taste like Cohibas, something is wrong somewhere.

The divide here is that I don't think about cigars this way.

If i were a blank slate and I didn't associate brands with flavors, you would be right. Good/bad/nice flavors/bitter/sour, no other considerations.

The fatal flaw in this logic is that is buys into the assumption that there is integrity in what the band is supposed to represent and that if it is bad or off it must be fakes. But empirically, there is no merit to that assumption if you compare what Upmann flavors are supposed to be and what Sir Winstons taste like in 2013.

In the past 12 months, the same thing has happened to Esplendidos as they relate to what Cohiba is supposed to taste like.

If you want another pointless experiment to illustrate this, smoke Connoiseur A side by side with a Sir Winston from 2013. You will NEVER EVER trust the name on a Sir Winston band again -- EVER (even if it is so good you want to take it to the desert island).

Sir Winstons that taste like Upmann are just as discontinued as Upmann Monarcas. So for me 1000 is a no brainer.

[Dozerhead]

I guess what I am not understanding is how do you know that a particular box of Sir Winstons is what you are looking for? I would never drop a G on a box of cigars, but if I did, I darn sure better know what I am getting. How do you know until you've tried one from that particular box? What exactly is your criteria? Box codes? Vintage? Just curious.

[ewipper]

I guess what I am not understanding is how do you know that a particular box of Sir Winstons is what you are looking for? I would never drop a G on a box of cigars, but if I did, I darn sure better know what I am getting. How do you know until you've tried one from that particular box? What exactly is your criteria? Box codes? Vintage? Just curious.

Factory and date code would be an important start.

[DrunkenMonkey]

So has anyone else experienced this phenomenon that Eddie describes with 2013 Sir Winstons? I haven't had any 2013 Sir Winstons, so I can't say firsthand. Was there a huge change in them for '13?

[ewipper]

So has anyone else experienced this phenomenon that Eddie describes with 2013 Sir Winstons? I haven't had any 2013 Sir Winstons, so I can't say firsthand. Was there a huge change in them for '13?

Just to be clear theres been no change in Sir Winstons for at least 8 years. The change is in Cohiba, slowly since 2007 until this year when they really flipped the switch.

[DrunkenMonkey]

If you want another pointless experiment to illustrate this, smoke Connoiseur A side by side with a Sir Winston from 2013. You will NEVER EVER trust the name on a Sir Winston band again -- EVER (even if it is so good you want to take it to the desert island).

What does this even mean? What are you saying that I would learn from doing this? That Connoisseur A's taste different than Sit Winstons? Why would that make me not want to buy Sir Winstons, even though they're great? Or are you saying I would want to buy them, but I'd never trust one? Does that even make sense? And I've never seen a 'Sir Winston band', let alone trusted one. All mine have the normal Upmann band.

[ewipper]

What does this even mean? What are you saying that I would learn from doing this? That Connoisseur A's taste different than Sit Winstons? Why would that make me not want to buy Sir Winstons, even though they're great? Or are you saying I would want to buy them, but I'd never trust one? Does that even make sense? And I've never seen a 'Sir Winston band', let alone trusted one. All mine have the normal Upmann band.

If they're great, don't worry about it. I assure you that my opinion will not affect the resale value of your Sir Winstons or the oohs and aahs when you share great Sir Winstons with friends.

Isn't cigars with friends the whole point of this hobby?

Heres a simpler thought to process. Maybe stocks are low because someone wants to justify the high price point? To me both Sancho Panza and Juan Lopez are cheaper, more available, taste better, and are rolled by the same people. 50 Juan Lopez 2s or 25 Sir Winston? No brainer to me.

[DrunkenMonkey]

So I'm right in my assessment that it didn't make any sense? Or do you just think my feeble brain won't be able to process the subtle brilliance of the statement? Either way, I'd appreciate you explaining what you meant. Maybe give me a crack at it and see if I can process it?