cook as captain?

[Ken Gargett]

just back from the gabba and i wonder if there is anyone else out there that wonders why on earth they go with this bloke? cook as captain! would be curious to hear from any of the poms out there as to their thoughts.

today, the perfect example – granted a tough day for pommy bowlers but...

1. at no stage all day did i see him offering any encouragement to bowlers or fielders. he just lets it dribble along. so unimpressive.

2. the star pommy bowler, broad, up until well after tea, had bowled just 8 overs all day. and that included 3 first up when watson was blocking everything and it was nice and cool. 5 overs for the rest of more than two sessions. not as though anyone else was knocking the aussies over. what was cook thinking?

3. the field. completely innocuous all day. does he put any thought in?

4. finally and compelling evidence to me that cook has either lost the plot or never had a clue. as both batsmen looked for their century, who did cook have bowling? the over before warner got his, anderson could have had him three times. there was a real chance to put pressure on warner and clarke. but for both of them, cook has root bowling. seriously? a part time back up ordinary bowler. that is surely unforgivable.

if link mckenzie had the poms, there’d be a new captain next test.

[Guest rob]

Why would you leave the ground early??????

[Ken Gargett]

Why would you leave the ground early??????

things to do.

the membership i have means it has not cost me anything for 40 years so one gets a bit easy going about it.

[El Presidente]

I have to say I am disappointed in the incessant booing of the Gabba crowd towards England.

let's be honest, I am in terms of sport the ultimate anti England supporter be it Cricket or Rugby or.......anything including marbles

Still, the poor sportsmanship irks me no end. It wasn't always this way. Maybe I am simply getting old.

[El Presidente]

And why are we bowling Lyons with rain/storms coming in?

Madness.

[Ken Gargett]

I have to say I am disappointed in the incessant booing of the Gabba crowd towards England.

let's be honest, I am in terms of sport the ultimate anti England supporter be it Cricket or Rugby or.......anything including marbles

Still, the poor sportsmanship irks me no end. It wasn't always this way. Maybe I am simply getting old.

the only booing has been to broad. and with respect, the aussies cop plenty the other side.

also not on board re lyon. definitely worth an over or two.

[Ken Gargett]

I have to say I am disappointed in the incessant booing of the Gabba crowd towards England.

let's be honest, I am in terms of sport the ultimate anti England supporter be it Cricket or Rugby or.......anything including marbles

Still, the poor sportsmanship irks me no end. It wasn't always this way. Maybe I am simply getting old.

thinking about the booing etc -

we just might be better than ever.

go back to the 30's, the poms copped more abuse and booing than probably any time before or after. deservedly so, of course.

fifties, guys like barrington and edrich copped a fair whack of it for agonisingly slow batting.

think 70s and john snow. not just boo'd. actually attacked.

and plenty in reverse of course.

[Magpie]

just back from the gabba and i wonder if there is anyone else out there that wonders why on earth they go with this bloke? cook as captain! would be curious to hear from any of the poms out there as to their thoughts.

today, the perfect example – granted a tough day for pommy bowlers but...

1. at no stage all day did i see him offering any encouragement to bowlers or fielders. he just lets it dribble along. so unimpressive.

2. the star pommy bowler, broad, up until well after tea, had bowled just 8 overs all day. and that included 3 first up when watson was blocking everything and it was nice and cool. 5 overs for the rest of more than two sessions. not as though anyone else was knocking the aussies over. what was cook thinking?

3. the field. completely innocuous all day. does he put any thought in?

4. finally and compelling evidence to me that cook has either lost the plot or never had a clue. as both batsmen looked for their century, who did cook have bowling? the over before warner got his, anderson could have had him three times. there was a real chance to put pressure on warner and clarke. but for both of them, cook has root bowling. seriously? a part time back up ordinary bowler. that is surely unforgivable.

if link mckenzie had the poms, there’d be a new captain next test.

My God Ken, on day 1 you were slagging the Aussies as the worst team in the last 50 years, now the Poms are useless. I think Cook has done a reasonable job, England are still ranked 1 and haven't lost the test JUST yet and certainly not the series. It's up to the Aussies to win this series a draw will simply not do.

[Webbo]

Captaincy is a skill (read The Art of Captaincy by Mike Brealey). Like all skills someone can have natural talent but it must be trained, honed and refined. To do this takes time and experience which in the past was nurtured by captaining your county side in England, pitting yourself against all the other county captains and learning from them. Central contracts for English players have been hugely beneficial for the national team in most areas have robbed them of that learning process for future captains. England's first thought when choosing a captain is who do we think will be in the team every test? That's why the default position is in recent years has been to pick the best player as captain, with somewhat mixed results (see Pieterson). In short Cook is not (in my opinion) a natural captain but was the best player in the side when the Stauss retired. I dont think there is a natural captain in the whole squad.

Re the booing, the English crowd did not (and do not) generally behave like that in England. Warner was booed because he behaved like a **** off the field. Look how the crowds here cheered Ponting on his last tour, similarly Warne and McGrath. If we started booing for not walking then everyone in modern cricket would get it! Rivalry and intensity are part of the game between these two teams, always have been, always will be but not bigoted crass jingoism whipped up by idiot newspapers has no place, it is a thin line but I think it has been crossed of late.

Finally if I was Pieterson and the guy pissing about asking for the autograph had done that to me it would have been the last time, the tool!

[CaptainQuintero]

It's hard to disagree; Cook is about as inspirational as a damp mop. It might just be a reflection of all sports currently; the big personalities seem to have left us and not been replaced.

[Smallclub]

[Ken Gargett]

Captaincy is a skill (read The Art of Captaincy by Mike Brealey). Like all skills someone can have natural talent but it must be trained, honed and refined. To do this takes time and experience which in the past was nurtured by captaining your county side in England, pitting yourself against all the other county captains and learning from them. Central contracts for English players have been hugely beneficial for the national team in most areas have robbed them of that learning process for future captains. England's first thought when choosing a captain is who do we think will be in the team every test? That's why the default position is in recent years has been to pick the best player as captain, with somewhat mixed results (see Pieterson). In short Cook is not (in my opinion) a natural captain but was the best player in the side when the Stauss retired. I dont think there is a natural captain in the whole squad.

Re the booing, the English crowd did not (and do not) generally behave like that in England. Warner was booed because he behaved like a **** off the field. Look how the crowds here cheered Ponting on his last tour, similarly Warne and McGrath. If we started booing for not walking then everyone in modern cricket would get it! Rivalry and intensity are part of the game between these two teams, always have been, always will be but not bigoted crass jingoism whipped up by idiot newspapers has no place, it is a thin line but I think it has been crossed of late.

Finally if I was Pieterson and the guy pissing about asking for the autograph had done that to me it would have been the last time, the tool!

i've missed the pietersen thing so can't comment.

it is absurd to take any moral high ground between one crowd and the other. crowds in both countries have good and bad. in general, they are no worse or better than each other. but if you really want to go all 'holier than thou', have a look at english soccer crowds. surely, the worst in the world.

what you have described is pretty much what goes on both here and there. lived in england long enough to see plenty of examples. warner is a **** and deserves it. broad is a **** and deserves it - the walking thing doesn't bother me (it does bother others but that is up to them) but this is a bloke who picked up a cricket ball during a test match and hurled it into an unsuspecting batsman. why he was not suspended for a year is beyond me. that was disgraceful. and so on. he is a ****. he gets boo'd. but having been at the gabba for much of this test, it is more a fun thing by now. and he is clearly enjoying it.

as for ponting, you have a very selective memory. he was also heavily boo'd on earlier tours of england. and warney and mcgrath have copped their fair share.

as for belated support and respect, it is as it should be. just as plenty of sportsmen have come here and received the respect they deserve. think how popular botham, and many others, are. i'm just old enough to remember cowdrey coming out as a back up to face lillee and thommo. people still talk of that in awe. not that he got a heap of runs, just the courage. most aussies think KP carries on a bit and is a bit up himself but i know no one who doesn't greatly respect him as a cricketer.

and broad and others (as ponting did in england) can turn it around. take a look at sonny bill. always a massive talent, but once despised for his conduct. head down, acted properly, let his actions on the field speak for him. now highly respected. even cooper building respect.

as for the newspapers, you've completely missed it. the world learnt 'bigoted crass jingoism' from english papers. read this from the editor of the courier mail (i should say i used to contribute to the courier mail as a freelancer but there is a huge amount they do that i despise).

as he says, broad saw the joke but clearly the sense of humour does not extend to all. this morning's paper had, on its front page, 'our wags are hotter than your wags'.

if you really want to take this crap seriously, go right ahead, but not even broad is. i suspect he has loved every second. even if he is a ****.

Stuart Broad earned the role of Ashes villain partly by being a wickedly good Test cricketer with just a hint of Australian mongrel in him but mostly by acting with complete contempt for the spirit of the game on that dark day in July.

It's not that Broad nicked the ball to the keeper and stood his ground – that's cricket. It's that he actually middled it to first slip, an entirely foreign concept in the general debate over walking, and stood sporting a docile look of bemusement at all the fuss. Perhaps Broad was as shocked as everyone else and frozen in fear after failing to immediately retreat to the dressing rooms. Australians may have forgiven Broad for trying it on that day. But the most galling aspect of his dastardly deception was that he got away with it – and changed the course of the series as a result.

That set the tone for an English summer of outrageous misfortune for the hapless Australians; a series characterised by bizarrely incompetent umpiring decisions and clearly faulty technology designed to correct incompetent umpiring decisions. But you know all that.

At the editorial news conference of The Courier-Mail the next morning, Stuart Broad's fate this Australian summer was sealed.

"What are we gonna do about Broad when he gets to the Gabba?"

Of course in the tradition of all good newspapers, planning wasn't superb and the answer to that question didn't come until months later. In fact, not until the eve of the first Test.

Our initial swipe at the (friendless) Kevin Pietersen as the English (and South Africans) arrived in Brisbane was a dress rehearsal to test the mood of the tourists for our assault on the real villain. We had thought about going after Joe Root, but he seemed unworthy. And Ian Bell. But truthfully, despite his impressive figures in recent years, most of us can't take him seriously. He will always be Shane Warne's bunny.

A week out from the Test, Allan Border told us that going after Broad would be a bad idea – he thrives on the attention. That changed our thinking. He would be expecting our crowds to jeer and torment him. What if we were to do the opposite and ignore him instead? Give him the silent treatment.

Of course, we were never going to convince a good-natured Australian crowd to be mute. But we could brush him entirely in print, as a symbolic protest. And so the Broad Ban was born. We couldn't wipe the performance from history, so we settled on calling him the "27-year-old English medium-pace bowler" in all our reports. We felt this was an even a graver insult than turning him into an asterisk and refusing to publish his image. What fast bowler wouldn't be furious about being relegated to mediocrity?

His rampage with the ball on day one only added another layer of character depth to the script. As the wickets tumbled, it was obvious (well we were being mauled on Twitter) that we would be fingered for motivating the stunning performance. And of course the "campaign", which had begun to get traction for the Courier-Mail all over the world by that stage, soon "backfired", according to our critics – mostly boring, jealous Australian cricket writers and broadcasters from rival media outlets. And Warnie, who courts the media, but only on his selfie-imposed terms.

When Broad walked into the post‑play press conference with a cheeky grin and a copy of the paper under his arm, there were cheers in our newsroom. He got the joke. In the vernacular from the stands, maybe he's not such a smug pommy dickhead after all.

Clearly most thought that was the end of it, and, after such a commanding performance, we wouldn't possibly go through with the promise to wipe Broad from the paper the next day. We couldn't back down now. We had to go harder. And so the Phantom Menace front pagewas published with the English day-one hero cut out of the main picture. The scorecard and the match reports referred to him as 27YEMP.

By midway through the next day's play we were contemplating surrender. For the next day, would we run a white flag and an open letter of apology to Broad, or publish an Australian citizenship form on the front and invite him to sign up, given that he seemed to have seen the error of his ways – he hadn't cheated in the first two days, and appeared to share several characteristics for which Australians were renowned: bravery, good humour, exceptional talent, fighting spirit and a mop of blond hair surely only the Pacific Ocean and the searing antipodean sun could have had a hand in creating.

Then along came Mitchell Johnson. Any fears that we were losing our readers with the brazenness of our coverage were allayed when Broad was welcomed to the crease by the (slightly adjusted) time-honoured Aussie chorus of "the 27-year-old English medium pace bowler is a wanker".

Purists have suggested the Courier‑Mail has disrespected a talented sportsman. That's rubbish. We would never have bothered with any player who wasn't an exceptional talent. Jonathan Trott, you're safe.

[winelover]

Worner's comments about Trott.... totally disrespectful. He gets a hundred and suddenly he is one of the world's greatest. Boycott summed it up well on TMS.

[Ken Gargett]

My God Ken, on day 1 you were slagging the Aussies as the worst team in the last 50 years, now the Poms are useless. I think Cook has done a reasonable job, England are still ranked 1 and haven't lost the test JUST yet and certainly not the series. It's up to the Aussies to win this series a draw will simply not do.

the post was merely about cook's captaincy - fabulous batsman. in a team with plenty of others. delighted to have to eat humble pie at the moment. still think it would be an amazing effort for australia to get up and win. i thought cook was doing a good job early on day one but i guess we'd all look good if our bowlers knocking off the opposition. i think he is a very average captain at best. but certainly an excellent batsman.

interesting listening to ian chappell, after i wrote the post. i think chappell long been an exceptionally perceptive commentator. he made the point that england felt they had the wood on clarke and could get him out with the short ball. if so, they bowled one or two fairly innocuous short ones that he took on and then gave it up. where was cook? if that was the plan, surely up to the captain to enforce it.

[Ken Gargett]

Worner's comments about Trott.... totally disrespectful. He gets a hundred and suddenly he is one of the world's greatest. Boycott summed it up well on TMS.

did not see what boycott said but i can imagine. warner is a grub and a disgrace. and a moron. like cricket never comes back to bite you. i really hope clarke tore strips off him. if nothing else, it gives trott motivation.

the greatest disservice england has ever done australia was not jailing warner when they could have for that rubbish with root.

[westg]

Captaincy is a skill (read The Art of Captaincy by Mike Brealey). Like all skills someone can have natural talent but it must be trained, honed and refined. To do this takes time and experience which in the past was nurtured by captaining your county side in England, pitting yourself against all the other county captains and learning from them. Central contracts for English players have been hugely beneficial for the national team in most areas have robbed them of that learning process for future captains. England's first thought when choosing a captain is who do we think will be in the team every test? That's why the default position is in recent years has been to pick the best player as captain, with somewhat mixed results (see Pieterson). In short Cook is not (in my opinion) a natural captain but was the best player in the side when the Stauss retired. I dont think there is a natural captain in the whole squad.

Re the booing, the English crowd did not (and do not) generally behave like that in England. Warner was booed because he behaved like a **** off the field. Look how the crowds here cheered Ponting on his last tour, similarly Warne and McGrath. If we started booing for not walking then everyone in modern cricket would get it! Rivalry and intensity are part of the game between these two teams, always have been, always will be but not bigoted crass jingoism whipped up by idiot newspapers has no place, it is a thin line but I think it has been crossed of late.

Finally if I was Pieterson and the guy pissing about asking for the autograph had done that to me it would have been the last time, the tool!

Probably the highlight of that persons life, would have had no effect on KP

[Coolio]

Yeap Cook to me appears to lack imagination and a cricket brain. He's good looking (no i'm not interested in case you're on the forum Alistair) and he's not without hope at the crease, but in my opinion, i think they could do with a better leader. I'm not sure who in the english team has leadership experience? There must be someone knocking on the door surely?

[Wil]

Trott is an absolute d-head and so is Warner. Neither team shows any respect for each other so not sure why the fuss. Trott deserves a serve. Warner certainly got his, here and in the UK.

[westg]

Trott is an absolute d-head and so is Warner. Neither team shows any respect for each other so not sure why the fuss. Trott deserves a serve. Warner certainly got his, here and in the UK.

Trott is an absolute d-head and so is Warner. Neither team shows any respect for each other so not sure why the fuss. Trott deserves a serve. Warner certainly got his, here and in the UK.

Yep. Warner does have a mental disability. Trott looked like all he wanted to yesterday was get out. I think they will have to run with Cook for a while. Prior why would you want a Rex Hunt captaining your team .

[Webbo]

I don't think that Australia have in any way a monopoly when to comes to idiot newspapers or idiot supporters. Indeed the English red tops are a disgrace and contribute much to the dumbing down of the UK in my opinion. The actions of some of the football supporters equally are something the country can look on still with shame (i was by the Hillsborough stadium in 1989 which in many ways was a culmination of years of these problems). The point I was trying to make was that I was disappointed that a newspaper campaign was instigated to encourage booing and abuse of a player on the basis that he did not walk and many of the fans swallow it. I was also surprised that Lehmann (as a Yorkshireman a player I admire) also started this off with his comments to the press. There are many reasons that supporters might not like Broad (he has plenty of flaws) but to single him out on the basis of not walking shows a complete ignorance of the modern game. If the treatment of Broad was more light hearted (i hope) then ok, perhaps the press are miss representing it here (it would not be the first time).

Regarding respect of the players by the fans I do think there is a difference, I think that a large section of English cricket public where supportive of many of the Australian players at the time they where actually playing. I believe much of this comes partly from the behavior and tone set by the touring teams to England under Waugh. He and the management at the time did a great service to Aussie cricket in my opinion, they (on the public face of it at least) behaved like real gentlemen on these tours, the wearing of the baggy green, the visit to Gallipoli, the interviews with the press, all gave the impression of a team genuinely committed to representing their country as best they could, real ambassadors. I heard many times that they behaved in a manner we wished the English team would. Yes it is easier to behave this way when you are the best team in the world filled with the best players but credit to them they did and much of the English cricket supporting public saw this and respected them for it. This is where the difference in having a proper captain and leader makes a real difference to the team.

[Ken Gargett]

I don't think that Australia have in any way a monopoly when to comes to idiot newspapers or idiot supporters. Indeed the English red tops are a disgrace and contribute much to the dumbing down of the UK in my opinion. The actions of some of the football supporters equally are something the country can look on still with shame (i was by the Hillsborough stadium in 1989 which in many ways was a culmination of years of these problems). The point I was trying to make was that I was disappointed that a newspaper campaign was instigated to encourage booing and abuse of a player on the basis that he did not walk and many of the fans swallow it. I was also surprised that Lehmann (as a Yorkshireman a player I admire) also started this off with his comments to the press. There are many reasons that supporters might not like Broad (he has plenty of flaws) but to single him out on the basis of not walking shows a complete ignorance of the modern game. If the treatment of Broad was more light hearted (i hope) then ok, perhaps the press are miss representing it here (it would not be the first time).

Regarding respect of the players by the fans I do think there is a difference, I think that a large section of English cricket public where supportive of many of the Australian players at the time they where actually playing. I believe much of this comes partly from the behavior and tone set by the touring teams to England under Waugh. He and the management at the time did a great service to Aussie cricket in my opinion, they (on the public face of it at least) behaved like real gentlemen on these tours, the wearing of the baggy green, the visit to Gallipoli, the interviews with the press, all gave the impression of a team genuinely committed to representing their country as best they could, real ambassadors. I heard many times that they behaved in a manner we wished the English team would. Yes it is easier to behave this way when you are the best team in the world filled with the best players but credit to them they did and much of the English cricket supporting public saw this and respected them for it. This is where the difference in having a proper captain and leader makes a real difference to the team.

i think that a large part of the dislike for broad via the not walking (and a lot of aussies, including me, have no issue with that at all) was that broad was already intensely disliked long before it and this added to it and gave it a focus.

remember that as well as the incident re hurling the ball at an unsuspecting batsman, he had been accused of ball tampering. even nasser hussein effectively said he was a cheat. the bloke is a grub (we all have them - take a look at warner).

also, it is far from all aussies booing broad. large chunks of the crowd are either quiet or positive.

the courier mail is part of news ltd, which probably says it all, but it is largely a piss take. also, it is hard to take them seriously when they have a headline about who has the hottest wags.

as for past crowds and attitudes, both countries have a great many cricket fans who respect and appreciate good players. but i remember endless instances, back when we were winning with waugh etc, of accusations of poor winners, arrogance etc etc. you'll find examples of both types of "fans" in both countries. and always will, i suspect. probably more so now and in the future with more and more 20 and one day cricket.

[Webbo]

Dave Warner, son of Mayor Rob Ford?

[winelover]

Re: Cook as captain

The thing is Ken, Cook is the best we have and we havr had a lot of success under him, despite some obvious failings. We tried KP as captain and it didn't last long. We are not inundated with alternatives, unless you can suggest who?

[Ken Gargett]

Re: Cook as captain

The thing is Ken, Cook is the best we have and we havr had a lot of success under him, despite some obvious failings. We tried KP as captain and it didn't last long. We are not inundated with alternatives, unless you can suggest who?

fair point.

[winelover]

Need to read Shane Warne in today's Telegraph re Cook's captaincy and his damning take on the Aussie press's treatment of S Broad.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/international/theashes/10471120/Ashes-2013-13-England-must-learn-to-stand-up-to-the-school-bully-says-Shane-Warne.html