Limited Editions: Are they really more aged than current regular production cigars?

[Zacapa]

The topic on Cuba's stockpile of tobacco got me thinking about EL cigars.

If there is a lot of aged tobacco sitting around as raw leaves ready to make cigars with, would it be plausible that many of the current standard production cigars are filled and wrapped with a fair bit of 2yo tobacco?

If this is the case, then when looking at what ELs offer over and above standard vitolas, are we purely talking 1) a *guaranteed* 2 year minimum on tobacco, and 2) blenders picking the higher quality leaves?

Alternatively, are ELs also fermented any longer than standard production cigars to achieve the darker colour, or do they just pick darker coloured wrappers?

Im really interested to hear the opinions/knowledge of the other more in-the-know members on FOH.

[sengjc]

I am not one of those in the know, so to speak.

However, the available information on the Habanos official website indicates that the leaves used for ELs are 2 years of age. If they are prepared to make that statement then there must be some form of guarantee to it.

As for better quality tobacco, I think that is true too just from observation of the ELs. After all, I am inclined to think that the leaves have to be of a certain quality in order for them to be designated for aging.

[pjansen]

Per Trevor's website...

"Storage & Aging

In the warehouse, the leaf is stored to age. From 2006, Habanos has increased the minimum aging time as follows:

• Fillers..........Ligero - 3 years
  
• Fillers..........Seco - 2 years
  
• Fillers..........Volado - 1 year
  
• Binders........Generally - 1 year
  
• Wrappers.....Generally - 1 year
  
• Wrappers.....Limited Editions - 2 years
  
• Wrappers.....Cohiba Maduro - 5 years"
  

It would seem to me that if all the tobacco in the LE's now is aged for 2 years or more that they are only aging the wrappers, binders, and volado longer while aging the ligero and seco the same as regular production. Seems to me to be more of a maketing strategy to make people think that all the tobacco in the LE's are something special and worth the extra coin over regular production. Just my opinion.

[bassman]

The more important question is are LEs BETTER than regular production? I've been smoking LEs since they started & while a few few are superb, most have a common LE taste rather than being representitive of their brand. I stopped buying LEs in 2009 & for example, would much rather smoke a Top notch Montecristo #4 than any MC LE made after the double corona.

[joeypots]

Don't the ELs have as a rule darker wrappers? Seems I remember that they said the EL wrappers came from the top of the plant.

[Smallclub]

The more important question is are LEs BETTER than regular production? I've been smoking LEs since they started & while a few few are superb, most have a common LE taste rather than being representitive of their brand. I …would much rather smoke a Top notch Montecristo #4 than any MC LE made after the double corona.

+1

And the LEs - some of them – suffer from the same problems of consistency than cigars of current production. I have seen and tested terrible boxes of Partagas D3 from 2006, Hoyo Regalos, Monte Sublimes (underfilled hot air tubes devoid of any Montecristo gene), etc.

[pjansen]

Don't the ELs have as a rule darker wrappers? Seems I remember that they said the EL wrappers came from the top of the plant.

Yes they use a higher priming wrapper which causes a darker overall color. Seems to me based on the available information that this is the only difference between LE's tobacco and regular production tobacco.

[CanuckSARTech]

Winner, winner, chicken dinner!!

Agreed.

Don't the ELs have as a rule darker wrappers? Seems I remember that they said the EL wrappers came from the top of the plant.

Yes they use a higher priming wrapper which causes a darker overall color. Seems to me based on the available information that this is the only difference between LE's tobacco and regular production tobacco.

When the LE program started, that was the big draw - that the wrapper was specifically aged for at least 2 years (some wrappers at the time were barely 6 months or so, I believe). But then, when H S.A. changed the game a bit in 2006, they made all tobacco age and ferment longer, with only the binders, most wrappers, and volado I think, have only a year on them (everything else was now 2 years or longer). So then, starting with the 2007 (or 2008?, but pretty sure it was 2007) LE releases and onwards, ALL tobaccos used in LE cigars are aged for a minimum of 2 years. That means not just the wrappers as before, but the volado and wrappers also, which does add to the flavour profile. And yes, it's always been a sort of a "guarantee" with the LE program, that it was guaranteed minimum aging, not just a general guideline like for regular production.

But, since tobacco stocks have skyrocketed, I think since 2008 or 2009 that the LE program has had less of an overall benefit over regular production stock. I mean, look at how well stuff has been smoking ROTT since 2010 or so, and how well stuff from 2008 onwards has been aging and developing.

I think the appeal for the cigars are much less in the LE program lately, compared to regular stock. They have hits now and again that I think are just homeruns from the conception (RA Extras, Cohiba 1966, etc.) But the general performance over regular production is getting to be a smaller and smaller bell curve, IMO.

[pjansen]

An opinion based on speculation or on a number of cigars smoked?

An opinion based on available information/ research and cigars smoked.

[IcedCanuck]

I am a bit of an EL fanboy, queue the angry mob . I started getting into them a couple years ago but the H.Upmaan Magnum 48 (2009), the Monte GE (2010), the RA Extra (2011), the H.Upmann Robusto (2012), Cohiba 1966 (2012), and the Monte 520 (2012) all score big points with me. I cannot say enough good things about all those cigars. Most people, not all people, who bag the limited editions, regionals, and Cohibas (for the most part) are all the same group of guys and price point seems to be the major reason why. If a cigar is good it's good and if it's crap it's crap regardless of price. Whether you think a stick is worth the asking price, and whether you can justify paying the higher price in comparison to other cigars, is your call.

[maverickdrinker]

I like ELs, nothing wrong with it. Personal preference. Not really a debate on which is better, regular production vs. EL. I think they both have their place.

EL uses Maduro wrappers, hence the darker colour.

My favorites have been the Monte sublime, 520 and GE as well as the 1966s. Waiting for the RA Extras to develop. Havent been a big fan of the Party or Hoyo ELs.

Construction, like anything, has been good overall. A few cigars loose but nothing to worry about. Happens to regular production as well.

To me, I like the differentiation. Look at the Monte sublimes. ONce gone, many want them. If you like em, buy em and enjoy them. Doesn't matter what others opinions are. They are yours to enjoy

[IcedCanuck]

I like ELs, nothing wrong with it. Personal preference. Not really a debate on which is better, regular production vs. EL. I think they both have their place.

EL uses Maduro wrappers, hence the darker colour.

My favorites have been the Monte sublime, 520 and GE as well as the 1966s. Waiting for the RA Extras to develop. Havent been a big fan of the Party or Hoyo ELs.

Construction, like anything, has been good overall. A few cigars loose but nothing to worry about. Happens to regular production as well.

To me, I like the differentiation. Look at the Monte sublimes. ONce gone, many want them. If you like em, buy em and enjoy them. Doesn't matter what others opinions are. They are yours to enjoy

x2

[Orion21]

I buy everything, but GR's because of the price point. I stocked up on the Monte GE 2010 because I loved the cigar. It comes down to how you smoke. If you believe HSA, then better tobacco is supposed to be used in the limited production cigars. That doesn't mean they are going to blend it to be "better" than your favorite regular production cigars. My experience tells me to tread lightly with EL's because of the price point, but when one is really good (like the MGE and 520) to buy in bulk because it doesn't get much better.

As a side note, a few very respected members and I have also questioned the way some EL releases have aged. The point being they make peak much quicker than regular production and then fall off.

[tmac77]

x2

I like ELs, nothing wrong with it. Personal preference. Not really a debate on which is better, regular production vs. EL. I think they both have their place.

EL uses Maduro wrappers, hence the darker colour.

My favorites have been the Monte sublime, 520 and GE as well as the 1966s. Waiting for the RA Extras to develop. Havent been a big fan of the Party or Hoyo ELs.

Construction, like anything, has been good overall. A few cigars loose but nothing to worry about. Happens to regular production as well.

To me, I like the differentiation. Look at the Monte sublimes. ONce gone, many want them. If you like em, buy em and enjoy them. Doesn't matter what others opinions are. They are yours to enjoy

x3

[Dbone]

Question is really not really the age of tobacco used in EL's, that's not what makes them what they are. If it were so simple as to say a Upmann EL is simply a regular production cigar with extra aged tobacco, then you would have a more valid question, Zacapa.

The blends are usually so off marc that it really doesn't matter what age the tobacco is, it's a crapshoot since it's a non-standard blend. How are they going to age develop is anyones guess. The blends chosen for EL's I think best suit Monte. However, one of my most recent favorite EL has been the RjY Duke with everything from Cherry to Orange Peel so who's to say it only suits Monte. Chocolate cherry Upmanns and spicey Hoyo's lol. The program is too unpredictable for me to stand behind, but guess that's what makes it kind of fun also.

[pjansen]

I love the Monte GE as well. One of the first boxes of CC I ever bought. The GE showed me the depth of flavor of Cuban tobacco which I fell in love with.

[Orion21]

What I would like to know is what the aging requirements were during the golden years of Cuban cigars in the 80's and early 90's? So many talk about how these were the best years, so was there a difference in how the tobacco was aged or handled? Or was it purely the old tobacco before the hybrids was better?

[pjansen]

Does anyone have access to Min Ron Nee's book to see if he has written anything about this?

[CanuckSARTech]

What I would like to know is what the aging requirements were during the golden years of Cuban cigars in the 80's and early 90's? So many talk about how these were the best years, so was there a difference in how the tobacco was aged or handled? Or was it purely the old tobacco before the hybrids was better?

I think part of it is looking back on things with rose-coloured glasses. Sort of the, "when I was your age"-kinda mentality of how things were always better in the olden days.

But, it was different blends due to it being different strains of tobacco back then. The tobacco varietals that Tabacuba is using now has only been in place since '97 or so, so barely 15 years. That's minimal when you consider things were relatively unchanged for 100-plus years before.

Does anyone have access to Min Ron Nee's book to see if he has written anything about this?

About what? EL program, or tobacco strains, or aging, etc.? Some of the info is over a decade old now, and some of this stuff was just coming into place when he was starting his book. I can see what I can look up though, depending on what you're wanting.

[pjansen]

I think part of it is looking back on things with rose-coloured glasses. Sort of the, "when I was your age"-kinda mentality of how things were always better in the olden days.

But, it was different blends due to it being different strains of tobacco back then. The tobacco varietals that Tabacuba is using now has only been in place since '97 or so, so barely 15 years. That's minimal when you consider things were relatively unchanged for 100-plus years before.

About what? EL program, or tobacco strains, or aging, etc.? Some of the info is over a decade old now, and some of this stuff was just coming into place when he was starting his book. I can see what I can look up though, depending on what you're wanting.

You answered it yourself. Thank you.

[Zacapa]

The more important question is are LEs BETTER than regular production?

Im not sure I agree with that - as you said some ELs are good some not so good, plus if i asked 10 people whether ELs are better Id get another 9 or so different answers to add to the pile.

I like ELs, nothing wrong with it. Personal preference. Not really a debate on which is better, regular production vs. EL. I think they both have their place.

This x 4

Question is really not really the age of tobacco used in EL's, that's not what makes them what they are. If it were so simple as to say a Upmann EL is simply a regular production cigar with extra aged tobacco, then you would have a more valid question, Zacapa.

I definitely agree it is not just a matter of age. My OP was less concerned with whether ELs are better because theyre aged, and more to do with proposing that age may no longer be the selling point for ELs it once was.

Part of this is that it stands to reason that due to minimum aging requirements for volado and binder only being 12months, combined with surplus tobacco, that means most of these leaves could also be 2 or more years old also. Effectively giving you a regular smoke the same age as an EL.

Although the defining feature of most ELs are their ability to provide a new blend to regular production smokes, I started this topic as a matter of curiosity of what distinguishes ELs from regular cigars and what is justifying the extra cost.

Are ELs maduro wrappers?? some have indicated this while others have indicated that they are simply darker leaves from uppermost parts of plant. My understanding is that dark leaf aged for longer does not equal maduro leaves that have extra fermentation

[CaptainQuintero]

Some are darker than others and a few seem to be standard wrappers.

Re old cigars, standard practice in Europe was no reputable retailer would sell someone cigars under a year old unless requested purely because they were generally unsmokable. Business practices and changes in the tobacco process has eliminated this in most places.

[stunod]

The one given about ELs the construction seems to be spot on. Especially the Montes. IMO

[ewipper]

ELs have more age on them because they are rolled in unlimited quantities, nobody buys them, and, as such, they age more.