politicians - can they sink lower?

[Ken Gargett]

for those outside oz, we have had a battle going on here over the leadership of our country. we have a minority govt (supported by a few idiot independents who are so excited to have their 15 minutes that they can't see past their own self-importance) that will do or say anything to retain power, no matter what the eventual cost to the country. we have a leader, julia gillard, who got the job by stabbing her boss in the back a bit over a year ago and who has been shown to be utterly and completely dishonest. one of the independents has actually professed to be stunned that gillard completely reneged on all her promises to him first chance she got - which makes him a liar as well or possibly the dumbest man in australia. she covered his vote by enticing one of the worst grubs ever to be elected in this country across the floor to act as speaker. this a bloke who has indulged in more rorts than investigators can keep up with, who has had his snout deeper in the public trough than almost any of them - and that is saying something. and as speaker, he ios running around insisting on wearing ridiculous robes and being paraded into parliament like it was 1900, making himself and the entire thing a bigger joke than seemed possible. and now we have an opposition beleating about what a grub he is. true, but you morons had him as a representative of yours for years and turned a blind eye. you've got exactlyu what you deserve for not dumping him years ago.

we have an opposition leader no better than the prime minister, or at least, almost as bad, and some of his 'team' i would not waste spit on if they were burning to death.

we have the former leader endlessly undermining the woman who stole his job. he, and sadly a great number of the population, forget that one of the reasons he was shafted, along with the egotisical ambition of the woman who knifed him, was that he was as popular as rotten eggs in a salad. a mean little worm one wouldn't trust to run a kindergarten let alone a country. he is still detested by almost everyone in his party and is a complete hypocrite and liar. they are all pondscum. voldemort is a saint in comparison.

the press take the view that stable govt is poison to ratings and selling newspapers, so beat up every possible hint of a challenge or an issue. apparentlyu, no omne told the press that they don't actually run the place.

the former leader has been gaining traction, because the press have been pushing it for their own interests and because the gillard govt is so bereft of the slightest hint of competence that she makes the wiggles look like churchill teamed with JFK.

so someone has now,presumably in retaliation by a gillard staffer (who have made it clear that they couldn't get jobs as clowns in a circus), released a video of the former leader preparing a tv speech about something or other - the point being the loss of temper and swearing.

aside from the pettiness of the lot of them, i was curious how something like this would be received in other countries. for example, if this was released in the run up to the US presidential election and featured obama or romney, what would be the effect?

here, i doubt anyone cares.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/national/language-warning-kevin-rudd-drops-f-bomb-in-outtakes-from-video-shoot/story-e6freooo-1226274690568

[brazoseagle]

I'll trade you Obama any day!!!!!!!!! I'd rather have Crocodile Dundee as President.

[NJP]

What a tock.

[rckymtn22]

I do care Ken, I want the AUS dollar to fall against the CDN dollar so cigars are cheaper for us Canadian (aka seal bashers) to buy! So keep politics a mess in Australia!

[Colt45]

Well Ken, as we all know, U.S. politics are off limits, so speaking in generalities (and just my own personal point of view), as long as

we have politicians who check to see which way the wind is blowing first thing when they get out of bed in the morning, as long as we have

politicians running for office who never quite say what they stand for but attack other candidates, as long as we have politicians who only

care about getting elected, staying in office, and getting re-elected, I imagine things will stay as they are or continue to get worse....

[Guest rob]

Having a politician make their decisions based on the good of the people - and not based on their own careers and re-election prospects.... would be like expecting a McDonalds franchise owner to run their business hoping that less people would buy their products because they were concerned about heart disease and obesity.

[Ken Gargett]

Well Ken, as we all know, U.S. politics are off limits, so speaking in generalities (and just my own personal point of view), as long as

we have politicians who check to see which way the wind is blowing first thing when they get out of bed in the morning, as long as we have

politicians running for office who never quite say what they stand for but attack other candidates, as long as we have politicians who only

care about getting elected, staying in office, and getting re-elected, I imagine things will stay as they are or continue to get worse....

colt, i guess i ended up off on a rant which stuffed the purpose of the post. it was not so much on democrats v republicans or anything like that, it was meant to find out what people in other countries would think and how the electorate would react, if their leader was shown in that clip, swearing and losing his temper.

would, and i assume it wouldn't change much for either side, people be offended, turned off, not care?

[shrink]

Looks like a pilot for a popular TV series to me.

[Ken Gargett]

Looks like a pilot for a popular TV series to me.

shrink, you do know that you are a very weird person.

[Montaigut]

Folks I can't let that one pass.

Rant and rave all you want but unless you stand up and do something to change the game it will not. Guess what, the politicians we have today we deserve.

You care? Get involved. Join the political party that most suits your views, get your friends to join, have a say in who the party will select to run, at all levels. It doesn't work at first? Try again, try smarter... Until you have a say in who will be chosen to represent you, it will not matter one bit who you vote for or even if you vote or not. The real choices will have been made without you, before any vote and by folks that do not have the public interest in mind.

I don't care which country you are in: its pretty much the same all over.

Let me throw the question back: how low will they have to sink before we do something about it? We live in democracies: one man, one vote. Remember?

[Peter11216]

Rant and rave all you want but unless you stand up and do something to change the game it will not. Guess what, the politicians we have today we deserve.

Sort of yes, sort of no. I can't talk about the politics of the country I know best, in keeping with the rules. However, I don't think it is as easy as you suggest. Even in a dictatorship, people have some say, and some ability to change and otherwise affect their leadership and political structure. In Egypt, people forced out a dictator. The people living in Egypt didn't even have a democracy, and they managed to make a significant change (even if the army still maintains control). So it is true, one can have an effect on the politics of the society they are in. But the fact is, there are obstacles to doing so. Simply blaming the people of Egypt for putting up with a dictator for decades upon decades would seem a little weak. They had to fight and die for years and years just for a relatively small change in the system. In democratic countries the challenges are different, and people rarely face the same threats, but it is as glib as true to say, simply, the politicians we have are those we deserve.

You care? Get involved. Join the political party that most suits your views, get your friends to join, have a say in who the party will select to run, at all levels. It doesn't work at first? Try again, try smarter... Until you have a say in who will be chosen to represent you, it will not matter one bit who you vote for or even if you vote or not. The real choices will have been made without you, before any vote and by folks that do not have the public interest in mind.

I agree. But I would add, while you appreciate that this is a hell of a lot easier for those of us in Western democracies, it is not a walk in park either. There are different challenges that arise, ones that can be quite formidable.

Oh yeah, in answer to Mr. Garett's question: they can and do. (Won't provide examples, in order to follow the rules.)

Best,

Pete

[Guest rob]

Sorry Montaigut... but I disagree.

From the point of view of general decency and ethics it would be nice if we could expect elected leaders to do what they promise they'll do.

The fact that the expectation is that they won't do what they promise is why the earn the reputation that they have.

The government set up a department in Australia called the Office of Fair Trading... among the departments numerous powers, they have the authority to reprimand and fine businesses and companies that misrepresent or lie to consumers about products and services.

It'd be bloody fantastic if there was a judicial system set up to reprimand the politicians for their mistruths and shady tactics. Bloody hypocrites, the lot of them.

[headstand]

I think most of us would have a bigger problem with the whining than with the language.

[Montaigut]

Sort of yes, sort of no. I can't talk about the politics of the country I know best, in keeping with the rules. However, I don't think it is as easy as you suggest. Even in a dictatorship, people have some say, and some ability to change and otherwise affect their leadership and political structure. In Egypt, people forced out a dictator. The people living in Egypt didn't even have a democracy, and they managed to make a significant change (even if the army still maintains control). So it is true, one can have an effect on the politics of the society they are in. But the fact is, there are obstacles to doing so. Simply blaming the people of Egypt for putting up with a dictator for decades upon decades would seem a little weak. They had to fight and die for years and years just for a relatively small change in the system. In democratic countries the challenges are different, and people rarely face the same threats, but it is as glib as true to say, simply, the politicians we have are those we deserve.

I agree. But I would add, while you appreciate that this is a hell of a lot easier for those of us in Western democracies, it is not a walk in park either. There are different challenges that arise, ones that can be quite formidable.

Oh yeah, in answer to Mr. Garett's question: they can and do. (Won't provide examples, in order to follow the rules.)

Best,

Pete

Point taken Pete. I see democracy as a journey; not all countries are at the same stage in the process. Our generations are lucky that "western" civilizations have already gone through what Egypt, and other countries, are going through now. And it seems to me that history has taught us that there really are no lasting shortcuts on this road. It is a matter of many generations...

But that doesn't mean that we are there. We still have to fight for democracy. Granted our challenges are not the same as those in Egypt and elsewhere. But they are challenges just the same and I certainly did not mean to say they were easy. I simply said that giving up is not an option.

There is a quote from Winston Churchill on display at the Omaha beach museum in Normandy. It is a short memo dated May 30th, 1942, to Allied command regarding the building of the famous Mulberry harbour: "Piers for Use on Beaches. . . . must float up and down with the tide. . . . Let me have the best solution. . . . Don't argue the matter. The difficulties will argue for themselves. I remember it everytime I come across something challenging.

Perhaps the best we can do, each in our own way and in our own democratic countries, is to set a living model for those still "on the road".

Cheers

Dan

[Montaigut]

Sorry Montaigut... but I disagree.

From the point of view of general decency and ethics it would be nice if we could expect elected leaders to do what they promise they'll do.

The fact that the expectation is that they won't do what they promise is why the earn the reputation that they have.

The government set up a department in Australia called the Office of Fair Trading... among the departments numerous powers, they have the authority to reprimand and fine businesses and companies that misrepresent or lie to consumers about products and services.

It'd be bloody fantastic if there was a judicial system set up to reprimand the politicians for their mistruths and shady tactics. Bloody hypocrites, the lot of them.

But that is my whole point. The real choices are those made by political parties when they decide who will carry their banner. Look who/what is behind those organizations to understand the caliber and behavior of the current political crop... Unless you can influence that choice you really have little or no influence in the democratic process; the decisions that really matter have already been made for you.

Once you accept a question, the answer really doesn't matter.

I would vote for any politician that has to be dragged kicking and screaming into accepting a political office. Then I would be reasonnably sure he isn't in it for himself...

[Ken Gargett]

To say Tony Abbott is as bad as Gillard is just stupid. Abbott is against a "carbon tax" that alone makes him way better than Gillard. He is not a stupid lefty and is loyal to the Crown. That siad, the Liberal party does hve some duds in it too, but Labor is rotten to the core.

this entire thread took off on a tangent i didn't really intend but was clearly my own fault. apols to all for that.

that said, my point re abbott (and i'm certain we could have someone with opposing views to yours argue the contrary - for example, if by loyal to the crown you mean pro-monarchy then i'll be the first to decry that abysmal joke of a situation whereas we might be much more in accord on other policies) was not intended to reflect policy differences. simply that i would not trust him any more than i would trust gillard or rudd. he has shown in the past he will lie when it suits him. they all do.

i suspect thnat if you think otherwise, it is simply because the focus has been on gillard of late. abbott in power - i would expect no more honesty than we get now, but i would hope that what he did implement would be more to my liking than what we have.

[CaptainQuintero]

I read somewhere once that every country is supposed to get an exceptional leader once every hundred years, the sticking point being that you need to just hold on until you get your next great one.

If the thing which Ken showed happened in the UK I think it probably wouldn't hurt them, may do the opposite. After 30+ years of grey politicians, anything which shows them to be human normally gets a good reaction eg:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdmoDLuLh44

I would guess that most people over here gave a grudging respect to him (He wasn't that popular before).

I don't know if that just shows us to be an overly violent country though or maybe we just don't like eggs.

[CanuckSARTech]

I do care Ken, I want the AUS dollar to fall against the CDN dollar so cigars are cheaper for us Canadian (aka seal bashers) to buy! So keep politics a mess in Australia!

LOL. +1!

[Colt45]

....it was meant to find out what people in other countries would think and how the electorate would react, if their leader was shown in that clip, swearing and losing his temper.

I understand KG. It comes as no surprise to me that these kind of tactics are used. And while I have disdain for such skullduggery, I'd

like to think I'm capable of being able to see through the spin.

As long as the surreptitious footage shows a face that is not opposite of the public persona, I've no problem with the showing of a bit

of humanity, and probably wouldn't mind seeing a little more in public.

[Ken Gargett]

Feel free to tell us all the republics that are better than Australia? If we had a republic it would be ALL politicians!

on this we will never agree.

i simply struggle to understand how we can expect respect as a nation if our head of state is from/lives in/rules/etc etc, another country. and especially when it is a hereditory appointment from an inbred utterly dysfunctional mob whose only ability is to fill the pages of the idiotic celebrity magazines. the queen herself is pretty much the only one with any dignity. we are, after all, one small bomb from king harry.

all that said, i would have the republic as close as possible to the current system. a joint committee comes up with suitable names of eminent australians and then a vote by a joint sitting of parliament (as much as i detest them) needing either 2/3rds or 3/4s of the vote, so as to prevent party politics intruding, to the extent possible - and to prevent situations where we have ex-politicians running. nothing much else need change.

[TankerT]

As long as politics are propped up by either money from campaign contributors, and flashy ads that do nothing by distract idiot voters from real issues and get them to vote for someone that seems appealing, we'll always have *insert colorful adjectives here* in office. Doesn't matter where you live.

And, the media is not news. It is entertainment. If it isn't entertaining, nobody watches the TV or buys the paper. Thus, no revenues. As such, everything has to be evil or scandalous.

[Guest rob]

The beauty of the Crown being hereditory is that it remains above party politics.

Granted that is true... so Im still trying to work out why having a family of monarchs as our 'Head of State' is good for us?

[Fuzz]

Granted that is true... so Im still trying to work out why having a family of monarchs as our 'Head of State' is good for us?

Really? You never worked it out? It's quite simple, you know. By having a family of inbred, slack-jawed, dimwitted fools as our country's monarchy gives even our most moronic and totally incompetent fellow citizens a hope that they too can one day achieve grandeur! Just take one look at parliament and you can see that the system works!

[thechenman]

DSK for President...that's all I have to say on the matter of politics.