Ken Gargett Posted January 11, 2012 Posted January 11, 2012 guys, huge apols. had to take it down for a bit. hoppefully back up very soon. sorry for any inconvenience.
Bartolomeo Posted January 11, 2012 Posted January 11, 2012 Great write up Ken, really enjoyed it Bart
rckymtn22 Posted January 11, 2012 Posted January 11, 2012 Thanks for posting the story Ken. Sounded like a spectacular event to experience.
NJP Posted January 11, 2012 Posted January 11, 2012 Great read Kenny. Thanks for the tip on how to calm things down after a fight.
cigcars Posted January 11, 2012 Posted January 11, 2012 Wow...apparently no animal rights activists here.
Ken Gargett Posted January 11, 2012 Author Posted January 11, 2012 Wow...apparently no animal rights activists here. i did say in the piece, before i took it down and apols for that and i will try and get it back asap, that it was not intended in any way as support for the sport. that said, it is in many ways like bullfighting. those bulls live a great life until fight time. no fights, they would not exist at all. no one is going to maintain them. the lot would be off to the butchers. with the chooks, as mentioned, the majority do not die. and winners are treated like royalty. it may be barbaric but if it were wiped out today, every one of those chooks is bound for the pot. which is worse? all this is, of course, completely different from the scum illegally slaughtering whales. and the garbage in governments turning a blind eye.
Guest Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 i did say in the piece, before i took it down and apols for that and i will try and get it back asap, that it was not intended in any way as support for the sport. that said, it is in many ways like bullfighting. those bulls live a great life until fight time. no fights, they would not exist at all. no one is going to maintain them. the lot would be off to the butchers. with the chooks, as mentioned, the majority do not die. and winners are treated like royalty. it may be barbaric but if it were wiped out today, every one of those chooks is bound for the pot. which is worse? all this is, of course, completely different from the scum illegally slaughtering whales. and the garbage in governments turning a blind eye. Sorry, but the "They would not exist at all" Argument holds no weight. Just a weak statement used to condone animal cruelty. As if leading a "great life" right up to point you're slowly tortured, for no other purpose other than human amusement, is a justifiable excuse. Sad...
El Presidente Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Sorry, but the "They would not exist at all" Argument holds no weight. Just a weak statement used to condone animal cruelty. As if leading a "great life" right up to point you're slowly tortured, for no other purpose other than human amusement, is a justifiable excuse. Sad... Opinions are many in this realm. Cockfighting/bullfighting etc. I have been to both Cockfights and Bullfights and there is no denying either the inherrant cruelty nor the passion and culture of those communites involved in the "sport". I have always chosen to try and look through the prism of the culture involved. Not always easy to do in so many areas be it cockfighting, culling baby seals, killing wales, Steeple Horse racing etal. With Bullfighting I have always thought that I would rather be the 5 year old pamperred specially bred bull sent out into the arena (with little to no chance of coming out) than the 18 th month old steer having its throat openened in a backwater abbatoir. True amimal rights would have us all as vegans. Anything less could be argued as hypocrisy. The eating of meat is very much cultural and for our palate amusement and not a true necessity. I don't hold sway to that argument. I like meat and animals are their to service that want.
Ken Gargett Posted January 12, 2012 Author Posted January 12, 2012 Opinions are many in this realm. Cockfighting/bullfighting etc. I have been to both Cockfights and Bullfights and there is no denying either the inherrant cruelty nor the passion and culture of those communites involved in the "sport". I have always chosen to try and look through the prism of the culture involved. Not always easy to do in so many areas be it cockfighting, culling baby seals, killing wales, Steeple Horse racing etal. With Bullfighting I have always thought that I would rather be the 5 year old pamperred specially bred bull sent out into the arena (with little to no chance of coming out) than the 18 th month old steer having its throat openened in a backwater abbatoir. True amimal rights would have us all as vegans. Anything less could be argued as hypocrisy. The eating of meat is very much cultural and for our palate amusement and not a true necessity. I don't hold sway to that argument. I like meat and animals are their to service that want. i am in complete agreement with the comment on being a pampered 5 year old bull. they do have a chance, slim though it is. saw one "win" one day. saw another disgrace itself and its owner by refusing to fight - ultimate humiliation. i assume you mean "whales", unless you are keen to destroy your entire welsh market. is there one? but "culling" baby seals? seriously, i've never even heard the sealbashers themselves try that excuse. suddenly there are too many baby seals (what are they doing? wiggling across the ice causing friction and increasing global warming?). they are/were butchered solely for skins for furs so simple women can pounce about proving they are even more stupid than first appeared. and that has bugger all to do with anything to do with culture. sheer profit. bugger all else. as for whaling, cultural? spare me. do i really need to go down that track again? yes, those old japanese vilages that needed a bit of whale oil would go out with their cultural harpoons - now we have weapons that could bring down battleships. about as cultural as my arse.
CaptainQuintero Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 lol I love Kenny's monthly 'stir up the natives' posts I'll bite It's a difficult subject unless you are in camp A who would kick a puppy to death for it's meat, or camp B who doesn't eat anything which casts a shadow. Personally I agree with hunting for eating, if you go out and kill something for it's food then there is zero problem with that, doesn't matter if it's a whale or a goldfish. I don't however agree with people killing animals for killing sake, I don't see how shooting an elephant/deer/rabbit with a high powered cannon can make anyone feel empowered/macho/skillfull. There is one exception though, if you want to go barehanded against any animal to see if you can take it that's fine with me. Killing a boar with your bare hands etc. Of course if you go stamp on a frog then it's hardly impressive and proves how macho you are as the pilots in the enola *** or someone blowing a hippo apart from half a mile away. Hunts such as fox hunting I can understand and agree with, for example in England it's done to get foxes off farm land, it has to be done one way or another. When it was banned farmers had to resort to poisoning the foxes so I support the return of fox hunting. It's natural, has a supporting community and tradition, helps the local economy and naturally fulfills a job that at the end of the day still needs to be done. For food, although it essentially makes no difference in the grand scheme of things, I prefer to pay a little more to buy meat which is free range and local, for local economic reasons and so the animal gets at least a comfortable life before it gets turned into food. For cockfighting, It seems to me to be an extension of what ***** will do naturally. It will happen in nature the only difference is that people bet on it. Yes I realise that is a very simplified answer but it seems to me to be more natural than bullfighting where the result is a forgone conclusion and the bulls are sedated and have their horns made safe. I would watch bullfighting if it was unaltered, ie it was a bull with his natural unaltered horns and he hadn't been doped up Vs a man in sparkly hotpants with a little knife....although for some reason I think that the 'brave' bullfighers may not turn up for such an event
BrotherBear Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 The seals are culled to help rebuild dwindling fish stocks in the Gulf of St-Lawrence. Huge fishing trawlers have decimated the fish population and have kept themselves just out of our maritime borders to avoid any kind of regulation or maximum allowances. Also, no different then a deer cull in my opinion... We aren't going to run out of seals any time soon. Sent by mobile device using Tapatalk.
Bartolomeo Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Look at the title of the thread, if you dont like cockfighting or think its cruel, dont read the article I am not a fan of cockfighting but I thought it was a well written article on what happens in other countries with regards to cockfights and the authors experience, very well documented and I felt like I was along for the journey I like to learn as much about Cuba as possible and this was another glimpse into the reality of how some Cubans entertain themselves Again, I thought it was a well written piece and not sure why its not still posted here but its not my forum Fellas, this is a cigar website and a heck of a site it is, I learn more here everyday then most other sites combined and Cuban cigars/Cuba being the main topic with many generous members contributing Anyone with a problem with cockfighting, dont read the article and contribute elsewhere on the forum Respectfuly, Bart
CigarmanTim Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Saturday I am going to have lobster races in my 6 gallon pot of boiling water...and I will enjoy them.
Wil Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Look at the title of the thread, if you dont like cockfighting or think its cruel, dont read the article Debate not allowed?
Bartolomeo Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Debate not allowed? Definitely allowed but leave the original article up so everyone else knows what we are debating
kcheek Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Crap, I missed it! I saw a cricket fight the other day, people come up with some of the craziest things.
Ken Gargett Posted January 12, 2012 Author Posted January 12, 2012 Definitely allowed but leave the original article up so everyone else knows what we are debating the original article was put up by me (something i wrote a while back). it was taken down by me, without any pressure from anyone either way. and i have not discussed those reasons, which actually have nothing to do with approval or disapproval of the sport. for a completely different reason. i hope to have it back up shortly. as for the doping bulls and dulling horns, i gather that happens in some places but i was of the belief that it certainly didn't happen in the proper bullfighting in spain. i've seen two matadors hauled off to hospital (and yes, i was cheering loudly for the bulls - apparently poor form in spain but qlders love the underdog) and i doubt that either thought the horns were "dulled". one was still in intensive care when i left spain about ten days later.
HydroRaven Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 I like eating meat. I am a meat eater, and I enjoy it. I never understood the vegetarians' arguments, except for the allergy reason. Why do people refuse to eat meat unless they can't/don't like the taste?
Bcrowell Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Is there such a thing as a cigar smoking vegetarian? Drinking alcohol, smoking cigars and eating cows for dinner go hand in hand.
harryleech Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 It's a difficult subject unless you are in camp A who would kick a puppy to death for it's meat, or camp B who doesn't eat anything which casts a shadow. Personally I agree with hunting for eating, if you go out and kill something for it's food then there is zero problem with that, doesn't matter if it's a whale or a goldfish. I don't however agree with people killing animals for killing sake, I don't see how shooting an elephant/deer/rabbit with a high powered cannon can make anyone feel empowered/macho/skillfull. There is one exception though, if you want to go barehanded against any animal to see if you can take it that's fine with me. Killing a boar with your bare hands etc. Of course if you go stamp on a frog then it's hardly impressive and proves how macho you are as the pilots in the enola *** or someone blowing a hippo apart from half a mile away. Hunts such as fox hunting I can understand and agree with, for example in England it's done to get foxes off farm land, it has to be done one way or another. When it was banned farmers had to resort to poisoning the foxes so I support the return of fox hunting. It's natural, has a supporting community and tradition, helps the local economy and naturally fulfills a job that at the end of the day still needs to be done. For food, although it essentially makes no difference in the grand scheme of things, I prefer to pay a little more to buy meat which is free range and local, for local economic reasons and so the animal gets at least a comfortable life before it gets turned into food. For cockfighting, It seems to me to be an extension of what ***** will do naturally. It will happen in nature the only difference is that people bet on it. Yes I realise that is a very simplified answer but it seems to me to be more natural than bullfighting where the result is a forgone conclusion and the bulls are sedated and have their horns made safe. I would watch bullfighting if it was unaltered, ie it was a bull with his natural unaltered horns and he hadn't been doped up Vs a man in sparkly hotpants with a little knife....although for some reason I think that the 'brave' bullfighers may not turn up for such an event I agree with the vast majority of what you've said - I have no problem with hunting as long as the animal is eaten (or if it's a necessary, legitimate cull) For the same reason I make sure that if I buy meat, it's going to be eaten; lots of people in the west waste way too much food, but particularly when an animal has died for my dinner (and some of them are damn tasty!) then I'm going to make sure that it's not wasted by letting it go off or not finishing it etc. And as for bull fighting etc, while it's not my cup of tea, it's a long tradition, the animals do get a great life and they otherwise wouldn't be alive. There's arguments for and against, but I don't have a major issue with it. I can't agree with Fox hunting however - if the experience in England is anything like it is here (in Ireland) it's got nothing to do with rural life. First off the majority of people involved in hunting are not traditional country people (farmers, labourers, vets etc) they're the local banker, lawyer, doctor, jumped up local politiciians, the noveau riche etc. Keeping a horse is damn expensive and the vast majority of farmers in Ireland/England/worldwide don't own one. More often than not they don't ask for permission to go onto a farmers land and display a sense of entitlement that isn't appreciated by working farmers. I know of numerous cases where farm animals and crops have been damaged by hunts (a pack of dogs and a posse of horses understandably scare the crap out of livestock and do irreperable damage to crops.) The 'vermin' argument doesn't wash either. Most farmers needs foxes to keep the rabbit population under control or crops will be decimated and if you're a responsible farmer, sick or injured livestock (or the very young) will be indoors. Foxes are surprisingly small and even a young lamb will be able to escape to it's mother (who would kick the crap out of a fox) unless it's infirm. If the fox population does spiral out of control, then the most humane and effective method of keeping it under tabs is the gun, not a marauding pack of horses and dogs directed by dim-witted humans! Hope my rant is coherent - it's one of my real bugbears!
Ryan Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 In nature, ***** don't have razor sharp blades attached to their spurs There's the solution to the entire issue. For those who think that spanish fighting bulls' horns aren't sharp enough to give it a fair chance. Tie a cock, spurs first, onto the end of each one. Would that keep everyone happy? It's possible I may have misinterpreted some of the nuanes of the discussion.
harryleech Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 There's the solution to the entire issue. For those who think that spanish fighting bulls' horns aren't sharp enough to give it a fair chance. Tie a cock, spurs first, onto the end of each one. Would that keep everyone happy? It's possible I may have misinterpreted some of the nuanes of the discussion. I would be all in favour of this, but only if the reverse were also true - in order to give the ***** a fighting chance, each has a bull strapped to it's head. If the ***** can't handle it, well hard luck - that's just evolution at work my friends...
CanuckSARTech Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 ....but "culling" baby seals? seriously, i've never even heard the sealbashers themselves try that excuse. suddenly there are too many baby seals (what are they doing? wiggling across the ice causing friction and increasing global warming?). they are/were butchered solely for skins for furs so simple women can pounce about proving they are even more stupid than first appeared. and that has bugger all to do with anything to do with culture. sheer profit. bugger all else.... The seals are culled to help rebuild dwindling fish stocks in the Gulf of St-Lawrence. Huge fishing trawlers have decimated the fish population and have kept themselves just out of our maritime borders to avoid any kind of regulation or maximum allowances. Also, no different then a deer cull in my opinion... We aren't going to run out of seals any time soon. Sent by mobile device using Tapatalk. Don't ya just love how Kenny actually edu-ma-cates himself on a subject to get all the info BEFORE he draws his conclusions???!! Seems to me that Ken has a habit of stating his opinion on something, "...but I don't quite understand it all...", blah, blah, blah, and then asks others to fill him in on information that then would make his point of view valid. Bravo, Sir Ken - a true neutral start! LOL.
Colt45 Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 Don't ya just love how Kenny actually edu-ma-cates himself on a subject to get all the info BEFORE he draws his conclusions???!! Seems to me that Ken has a habit of stating his opinion on something, "...but I don't quite understand it all...", blah, blah, blah, and then asks others to fill him in on information that then would make his point of view valid. Bravo, Sir Ken - a true neutral start! LOL. Playing the ball and not the man definitely applies here. On a side note, punishing ocean dwellers for raping the ocean is well - ridiculous...
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