A look at the EL's & ER's of the future ?

[laficion]

In the midst of the latest list of discontinued cigars and the reactions from the cuban cigar community in the last few months,

I would like to take this opportunity to share with you some of my simple thoughts and observations on the matter after 40 years of smoking Habanos.

During this short period of time,I've seen many changes and transformations on my Habanos and because of these changes,

I've had to adapt to my choise of vitolas, my changing tastes and brand preference, but also Events in Cuba changed my consumption and view, such as the almost complete destruction of the tobacco plantations due to the blue mold in 1980 ,

which left Europe in a complete shortage of Habanos, aside from small to very small cigars, there was nothing to be had or to be found.

Trying to get your hands on a box of DC or lonsdale was harder then bringing back a rock from the moon.

That lasted almost 2 years before returning to, well, normal ?

From Cubatabaco to Habanos SA there has always been changes and cigars from every brand have come and gone but the big difference was that the cigars that were no longer made were replaced by others, sometimes for the worse but mostly for the better.

Today, the problem for me is the fact that it's the great cigars that are going , not the just good but the greats. When Partagas took away the "Fancy Tales of Smoke", a Double Perfecto,they replaced it with an even better vitola, the 109, and then , the great Lusitanias that we know today.

A brand like Ramon Allones that had more them 16 vitolas in it's catalog in the 70's & 80's, today only has 3 vitolas left, give or take a few EL's, ER's here and there.

The Plant has also changed, it's no longer the great Corojo, so , even if today they bring back some of these vitolas from the past, you'll have to remember that it's not the same leaves anymore, the wrapper, the binder, the filler, it's all different and how about the original blends ?

They may be very good or even great but who's going to say that they taste the same ?

Who's going to remember 40 years back ? Yes, maybe they will remember if the cigar was light, medium or full bodied, maybe that it was creamy or more animal but that's it.

Today the only reference they'll have is the size and the measurements. Who can tell me that they were smoking the RA Allones Extra 40 years ago and that today, they're the same ?

There's one thing that's for sure, 40 years ago the cigar sold for at least 10 times less because it was a regular production cigar, not a limited series.

I'm finding my choice more and more limited in the regular production and less and less limited choice in the limited.

The advantage for HSA would be to bring back cigars that haven't been made since 40 years,Make you believe that they're bringing back a somewhat heritage that was lost, but knowing that not many smokers would remember what it tasted like and sell them at a very high price.

Killing two birds with one stone.

Take out cigars that have been around for a long time but don't sell and replace the price of 3 regular production cigars with one old time heritage cigar, highly expensive and limited. Good deal , Yes ?

So, for me it seems that if I have a look at some of my old Habanos catalogs, I can maybe see the new EL's or ER's that will show up in the next 5,10 or 15 years from now .

How about we all have a look ? Maybe soon some will be on the wagon with the RA Allones Extra ER's

My 1970 Cubatabaco catalog.

[frenchkiwi]

bien dit, Guy but i have the feeling that in the current climate, hardly any of those cigars will be revived as they nearly all have ring gauges under 50 ha ha.

that leaves the PL Magnums???

[mkz]

Great post Guy!

Habanos in 40-years?

If they keep up the current work all they will have left is Cohiba LE the size of hockey-pucks.........

[Michel1968]

Very good post!

Alarmed or amused when producers want to recreate the taste of the past. Be it whisky (i.e. Macallan Inspiration Series), wine (are we going to see attempts of pre-phylloxera flavor profiles?), tube audio (the warm fuzzy sound of a shameless badly biased penthode) or cigars (hey, this is the taste of pre-embargo times!)

I wish all the effort that's being put into these sentiments driven products would be used into todays production (of everything)... I'd rather see a general high level of i.e. RASS than a happy poster shouting he/she finally snatched a supreme box of them while the vast majority being okay-ish.

[sblevit]

If HSA wanted to kill it, they should find out a way to bring back the Davidoff or Dunhill brands (or the exclusive brands such as Don Candido) as an LE. They would never be the same as the original Davidoffs or Dunhills and, surely, many purists would scoff at them. But many more would buy them for the novelty.

[anacostiakat]

Great thoughts and post. Thanks Guy!

[riazp]

Great post once again Guy. I think them going back in time a re-releasing discontinued sticks at LE's is a fantastic way for them to honour their past. ANd that book looks absolutly stunning, what a collectors peice!

RA 8-9-8 gets my vote as a LE! that would be stunning

[partifan]

Please don't make them super expensive. I'd love for a RA 898 to come out, but priced close to the Partagas 898 price point. Even if it was a dollar or two more a cigar, but if it was a 15 dollar cigar I wouldn't go for it.

[Colt45]

Well done Guy! I guess I wouldn't expect any cigar - throwback or continually produced - to taste exactly as those produced ten, twenty,

thirty or more years ago. I would agree that reproducing some of these cigars at least shows that perhaps they haven't completely abandoned

the history.

But when I consider your thoughts, I think that for me personally, they may have lost their way a bit when they made a conscious decision to

present cigars as luxury items......

[cottierm]

Dear Ross,

What do you have in mind exactly in your second paragraph?

But when I consider your thoughts, I think that for me personally, they may have lost their way a bit when they made a conscious decision to present cigars as luxury items......

Do you refer to the interruption of the machine-made production?

Best,

Michel

[cottierm]

Dear Guy,

Thanks for this travel down memory and yes, as others have already pointed out, the book is great and you should have it scanned for inclusion into Trevor's website.

I totally agree with your feelings and impressions which I share in many ways, although my experience was a bit different in the sense that, if I started enjoying CC a bit more than twenty years ago, I interrupted this passion for a period of ten years when I was living in Britain for reasons of excessive prices in that country and at that time. Having returned to this passion recently after my first trip to Cuba with my family, the world of CC which I re-discovered was totally new. Not only because new products and brands have appeared or disappeared since 1996 but also (as you pointed out) because old-time favorites of mine did not taste the same as in my memories (changing of personal taste maybe; changes of tobacco plants certainly). One example will suffice here to make my point. R&J Exhibicion no 4 was all the rage in the early 90's, as you certainly remember, and not surprisingly this was the first box I ordered after my return to cigar-smoking, but what a deception!!!

All the best,

Michel

In the midst of the latest list of discontinued cigars and the reactions from the cuban cigar community in the last few months,

I would like to take this opportunity to share with you some of my simple thoughts and observations on the matter after 40 years of smoking Habanos.

During this short period of time,I've seen many changes and transformations on my Habanos and because of these changes,

I've had to adapt to my choise of vitolas, my changing tastes and brand preference, but also Events in Cuba changed my consumption and view, such as the almost complete destruction of the tobacco plantations due to the blue mold in 1980 ,

which left Europe in a complete shortage of Habanos, aside from small to very small cigars, there was nothing to be had or to be found.

Trying to get your hands on a box of DC or lonsdale was harder then bringing back a rock from the moon.

That lasted almost 2 years before returning to, well, normal ?

From Cubatabaco to Habanos SA there has always been changes and cigars from every brand have come and gone but the big difference was that the cigars that were no longer made were replaced by others, sometimes for the worse but mostly for the better.

Today, the problem for me is the fact that it's the great cigars that are going , not the just good but the greats. When Partagas took away the "Fancy Tales of Smoke", a Double Perfecto,they replaced it with an even better vitola, the 109, and then , the great Lusitanias that we know today.

A brand like Ramon Allones that had more them 16 vitolas in it's catalog in the 70's & 80's, today only has 3 vitolas left, give or take a few EL's, ER's here and there.

The Plant has also changed, it's no longer the great Corojo, so , even if today they bring back some of these vitolas from the past, you'll have to remember that it's not the same leaves anymore, the wrapper, the binder, the filler, it's all different and how about the original blends ?

They may be very good or even great but who's going to say that they taste the same ?

Who's going to remember 40 years back ? Yes, maybe they will remember if the cigar was light, medium or full bodied, maybe that it was creamy or more animal but that's it.

Today the only reference they'll have is the size and the measurements. Who can tell me that they were smoking the RA Allones Extra 40 years ago and that today, they're the same ?

There's one thing that's for sure, 40 years ago the cigar sold for at least 10 times less because it was a regular production cigar, not a limited series.

I'm finding my choice more and more limited in the regular production and less and less limited choice in the limited.

The advantage for HSA would be to bring back cigars that haven't been made since 40 years,Make you believe that they're bringing back a somewhat heritage that was lost, but knowing that not many smokers would remember what it tasted like and sell them at a very high price.

Killing two birds with one stone.

Take out cigars that have been around for a long time but don't sell and replace the price of 3 regular production cigars with one old time heritage cigar, highly expensive and limited. Good deal , Yes ?

So, for me it seems that if I have a look at some of my old Habanos catalogs, I can maybe see the new EL's or ER's that will show up in the next 5,10 or 15 years from now .

How about we all have a look ? Maybe soon some will be on the wagon with the RA Allones Extra ER's

My 1970 Cubatabaco catalog.

[Puros Y Vino]

If HSA wanted to kill it, they should find out a way to bring back the Davidoff or Dunhill brands (or the exclusive brands such as Don Candido) as an LE. They would never be the same as the original Davidoffs or Dunhills and, surely, many purists would scoff at them. But many more would buy them for the novelty.

I love the idea but it won't happen. Davidoff & Dunhill are trademarks and they couldn't possibly do so without involving the owners of those trademarks and of course splitting the profits. It would be awesome to see an all new Cuban Davidoff. But given how expensive the Dominican based ones are I'm sure Cuban based ones would be priced astronomically.

[Skitalets]

I love the idea but it won't happen. Davidoff & Dunhill are trademarks and they couldn't possibly do so without involving the owners of those trademarks and of course splitting the profits. It would be awesome to see an all new Cuban Davidoff. But given how expensive the Dominican based ones are I'm sure Cuban based ones would be priced astronomically.

There was an article with Davidoff's president in the last CA. It seems like they are open to working with Cuba, but only after the embargo ends. I imagine they are probably also gun-shy about Cuba's quality control and expect an end to the embargo would be related to political changes that might bring more private control of industry.

[CaptainQuintero]

bien dit, Guy but i have the feeling that in the current climate, hardly any of those cigars will be revived as they nearly all have ring gauges under 50 ha ha.

that leaves the PL Magnums???

The UK got the PL magnums in 2007 as a RE but called the Por Larranaga Magnificos, I think nearly all gone from circulation now though.

[dB69]

Wonderful to read and to watch. Thanks for posting!

[Charltonc]

very intriguing. Keep it up!

[Colt45]

What do you have in mind exactly in your second paragraph?

It stems from something I read a number of years back - I forget where I read it or who said it, but it was someone from Altadis or Habanos.

The general gist was that they desired to have Cuban cigars perceived (and accordingly priced) as luxury items - akin to Swiss watches, boutique

clothiers, etc.

So I viewed it as shift from cigars being considered a part of life / a way of life, available to most, to moving toward something more exclusive

based around branding and image.

This is not to say cigars had not gone through this in some ways already, or that they were not already put on pedestals, but given the history

of cigars in Cuba, I thought it significant.

[CptKloss]

is this just a marketing ploy designed by Altadis/Imperial Tobacco? why sell regular production cigar for $5 when at 50 cent increase in production cost you can sell same cigar for $10 by just adding anextra band and creating an impression of it being "limited"

[cigaraholic]

Guy......we can only dream!

You and I have been at this 40 years and it pains me to see more and more short, fat smokes.

We started in the age of Coronas and now we're living in the Robusto age.

Maybe we'll live long enough to see it come back around........

[aavkk]

great post Guy, and I agree with your every word. "a heritage line" is basically the only way we are going to see some excellent cigars from the past, including the partagas SDC 1,2 and 3 years down the road. Eventually they will be rolled with a second band and we will be paying a large premium for a cigar rolled on the same line then as "regular production". From my limited experience since 07 I feel I have been lucky enough to discover amazing cigars and were able to collect many of my favorites, cigars that those joining the forum just 4 years later will rarely if ever have a chance to discover, that saddens me. Certain cigars I have many of which arent available today have the ability to put you in a completely different state of mind. I havent had too much experience with 09 and more recent production but it seems that type of experience is all but rarely reserved for 03 and older smokes.

[laficion]

You and I have been at this 40 years and it pains me to see more and more short, fat smokes.

We started in the age of Coronas and now we're living in the Robusto age.

Maybe we'll live long enough to see it come back around........

I'm sure that we can still take a few more suprises my friend.

We've been having such a great ride

Take care my brother,

Guy