Wine for Beginners

[Torontonian]

How much do I know about wine? Around as much as I know about quantum mechanics, which is to say almost nothing. Although I enjoy a little vino (is that acceptable wine parlance? ), I only ever indulge when it is offered by a friend or host, etc. Never have I purchased a bottle of my own. (If it ameliorates things, I'm only twenty-five). Could you wine experts recommend a few respectable, readily-available wines that I could keep in stock, as it were? Of course, I'm assuming there are such things as staple wines, analogous to, say, PSD4s in the cigar world.

Thanks everyone.

[Colt45]

Wow.......

If you think cigars are a journey - buckle your chin strap! I drink wine from all over the world, but must admit that Italy is nearest and dearest to my heart.

There are so many great wines, that I would be hard pressed to make even a short list, especially as it is very subjective. My only real advice would be to

be a little adventurous and have an open mind. Do some reading, keeping in mind that ratings and opinions are but a guideline.

If you pressed me to suggest one place to start, I'd have no problem suggesting the Southern Rhone of France. A go-to area of mine and Cotes Du Rhone

are usually very affordable with some good producers of consistent quality. Guigal is one of my faves, and while a larger producer / negociant, I've never

been let down.

This might sound a little over the top, but you are embarking on a great journey, one which I'm still on, though I've been enjoying wine for some time.

Enjoy it one bottle at a time - there really is no final destination! This is, of course, just my opinion - I'm far from any kind of expert - keep asking any

questions you might have - there are some knowledgeable members here

[ckearns]

Here's an article that might help: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/food-a...article1420435/

The suggestions will help to get rid of the confusion that sets in when faced with an overwhelmingly large selection of wines at the liquor store (plus its geared toward lcbo customers). I think the article can also help you to taste your way through the different styles/varietals of wine that are available in order to develop some knowledge for yourself. I hope it helps.

[samb]

Ive been getting into and learning about wine for about the past year. Its such a great thing!! Agree with what Colt said, to enjoy it one bottle at a time!!

[Puros Y Vino]

Since you're in Toronto. A great way to learn about wine is to take a course. The LCBO has a introductory course that goes for about $85 for four weeks. You get about 6-8 tastings per class. They cover Old world reds, whites, sparkling, cognacs, ports.

Or for more in-depth learning without the tastings. The Toronto District Schoolboard has a course as well for about $120.

You'll learn some basics on how it's made, how to taste, different types of wine, the regions, types of grapes, etc. The LCBO course does an aroma sensing session that's really good. They conceal various items in cups and you have to smell to guess what's inside. The items are very typical of what various wines offer up in aroma.

As you're "new". Don't worry about what others are drinking, the prices, regions, etc. Learn to be honest with yourself about what you like in a wine and don't be afraid to try new ones.

I buy on average 2 bottles/week to sample. I started in the "Old World" and am making my way to the "New World". Get your tasting skills in order so that when you do read reviews you'll get a better feel for whether or not you'd like to try a particular wine.

The best values these days are Italian wines. There's great stuff from $8/bottle and up. French wines are iffy unless you're willing to spend >$40 bottle. The French tend to send us their swill. Ontario wines can be excellent but overpriced. Chile, Argentina, Australia & New Zealand make great wines at excellent price points. Spain and Portuguese wines are also worth exploring.

Like Colt said above. Wine is a serious journey. I'd say it's more complex than cigar enjoyment. And like Colt I'm a bit of an Italian wine snob.

[tmac77]

Another Torontonian here seconding the comments by Colt 45 and bundwallah.

The LCBO courses are a pretty good start. If you don't have the time for that, then there is plenty of print (the toronto star, the globe and mail and toronto life put out best buy listings periodically for LCBO products. For non LCBO products you have to go through a wine agent. There is also Nat Decants, http://www.nataliemaclean.com/ , a popular online site that also has a mobile app and will send emails on new tastings and recomendations. It is also a good idea to get familiar with what vintages are the good/bad/ulgy for each wine producing region/country. Just like cigars though, the best tried and true method is sampling various types of wines, keep notes and learn what is best for your individual taste preferance. Also, again just as with cigars, there is storage. If you get into this seriously and start buying bottles to lay down and mature, you will need a wine cooler to keep your bottles at a consistent temperature. These fill up pretty quick so you may want to approach the amount of storage that you will need the same way you go about figuring how much cigar storage space you require.

Short and sweet comments but hope this helps a bit.

[snickers99]

When I first got into wine I became frustrated because I would buy a bottle of something that looked nice only to find out it was of low quality. The world of wine is huge. Every bottling is unique. I found that a good way to try high quality examples of different wines was to pick one that had been rated by a trusted source. I use Wine Advocate (Robert Parker) and Wine Spectator. There are many other sources of good information of course. At 25 years old you may not have a lot of money laying around. Buying bottles at random wasteful of money and time. Besides, if you pick up a crappy bottle of a particular varietal made by a particular vintner in a particular year you may draw erroneous conclusions from your experience. I never buy wine I don't know something about first.

[Torontonian]

Thanks everyone for the great responses. There are definitely a lot of well-informed wine lovers on the forum. I've checked out the links and will look into the LCBO program. My work is certainly cut out for me.

At 25 years old you may not have a lot of money laying around.

You are a wise man.

[thechenman]

I'm big into wine myself. Unlike bundwallah though, I started in the New World and have worked my way to the Old World. My favorites are California cabs and Meritage, but I am also a big fan of Italian Brunello. French Bourdeax is great a is Chateaunuf du Pape. Still working on the Burgundies. Being young and budget conscious my focus would be on the excellent reds coming from Chile and Argentina. Great cabs and Malbec among others. Zinfandels are great too, especially from CA. I'd start with a variety that you are interested in and falls within your budget. Then experiment with that varietal across the different countries that produce it sampling several brands from each. It really shows you how the same grape can vary widely in different growing regions.

[Puros Y Vino]

I'm big into wine myself. Unlike bundwallah though, I started in the New World and have worked my way to the Old World.

My love of Italian wine started early. My father used to make a couple of barrels of wine every year. I was allowed to drink some with dinner since I was 5 years old. So I naturally gravitated towowards Valolicella's, Montepulciano's, Chianti's, Amarone's and Barolo's. I find the New World has so much potential and at better price points. Especially since the Old World had to borrow a lot of vines from the New World to keep their growths viable against various threats.

There's a subgroup on FOH for booze: http://www.friendsofhabanos.com/forum/index.php?showforum=7

Perhaps we can share our tasting notes, recommend bottles and if there's interest. Do local tastings or meet at local events?

[maalouly]

I'm big into wine myself. Unlike bundwallah though, I started in the New World and have worked my way to the Old World. My favorites are California cabs and Meritage, but I am also a big fan of Italian Brunello. French Bourdeax is great a is Chateaunuf du Pape. Still working on the Burgundies. Being young and budget conscious my focus would be on the excellent reds coming from Chile and Argentina. Great cabs and Malbec among others. Zinfandels are great too, especially from CA. I'd start with a variety that you are interested in and falls within your budget. Then experiment with that varietal across the different countries that produce it sampling several brands from each. It really shows you how the same grape can vary widely in different growing regions.

I struggle with the idea of chateauneuf du pape. Don't get me wrong they produce great wine, but because of Parker the price is over valued, there are plenty of southern french wine or cote rhone that will kick it's ass at half if not quarter of the price.

[Colt45]

I struggle with the idea of chateauneuf du pape. Don't get me wrong they produce great wine, but because of Parker the price is over valued, there are plenty of southern french wine or cote rhone that will kick it's ass at half if not quarter of the price.

Gigondas comes to mind as one that slots in somewhere between CdP and CdR.

[laficion]

Gigondas comes to mind as one that slots in somewhere between CdP and CdR.

Great advise from Ross, there are many such wines and all nearby such as ,

Rasteau, Beaumes de Venise, Tavel, Lirac, Côtes du Ventoux, Coteaux du Languedoc and

Pic St. Loup.

Enjoy the passion

[Wiley]

I live in the West, and so much of what I drink is from Washington, Oregon, and California. A lot of brilliant wine is made in these states. Probably a third is from everywhere else. It's a kick to drink something from Chile, then Australia, then France, Portugal, and on and on. Why limit yourself? There's a lot fun to be had exploring.

Generally speaking (and I break this rule a lot) I don't spend more than $10 US on a bottle just for myself. Without some kind of rules, it's way too easy to justify spending $75 on a bottle. Especially when you're wine tasting. Ugh. It's like gambling in Vegas. $75 starts to seem more like $10.

[khomeinist]

Well said Wiley. I go up to $15 usually but I try to stay on budget as well.

I always look out for new regions or areas surrounding more established growing zones.

For example.... there are many fantastic Bordeaux style blends that did not make the 1855 classification. Check with a major retailer like Binnys or K&L for advice.

I also recommend looking at less appreciated grape varieties. I personally like Cabernet Franc wines. They can be quite cheap and totally fantastic values. Look at the Chinon region in France.

I usually go Spain, France, and Western US. That being said, I had a brilliant Aussie Shiraz last week for under $10. The market is hugely competitive. There are a lot of great buys out there, particularly in this poor economy.

[laficion]

I live in the West, and so much of what I drink is from Washington, Oregon, and California. A lot of brilliant wine is made in these states. Probably a third is from everywhere else. It's a kick to drink something from Chile, then Australia, then France, Portugal, and on and on. Why limit yourself? There's a lot fun to be had exploring.

Hi Wiley,

Above all I did not want to give anyone the Idea that I don't enjoy wines outside of my country.

Of course as a wine lover and with all the great wines around the world,

It would be insane to stick to only one country. I also enjoy wines from Spain, Portugal, Australia, etc etc.

It's funny that you also mentioned three states that I truly consider great wine states,

Oregon and Washington being my favorite for Pinot Noir, Syrah and California for Cabernet Sauvignon.

I love the wines from Oregon such as, "Chehalen Vineyards" and " Montinore Vineyards" in the Willamette Valley

and their great Pinot Noir.

Great wines also from Washington state such as wines from the Columbia Valley region but also from Lake Chelan or

Columbia Cascade.

Another for me would be Alexander Valley in California and their very tasty Cabernet Sauvignon and Syrah.

As for Australia, Chile, I won't even start , there are great wines out there to be discovered.

All we need is lots of curiosity and passion.

Ciao l'ami,

[mazolaman]

Stereotypical Englishman likes a good bordeaux.

Particularly a st Emilion.

I'm not so keen on Robert Parker's influence,as I feel all red wines seem to be 13 - 14 % now,where 12 was the top previously.

I think a little subtlety is lost.

many good wines can come as a surprise,protugese durif,argentine malbec/cabernet,majorcan table wine....

[Torontonian]

Generally speaking (and I break this rule a lot) I don't spend more than $10 US on a bottle just for myself.

Well said Wiley. I go up to $15 usually but I try to stay on budget as well.

This is encouraging. Thanks again guys.

[Erm310mce]

My love of Italian wine started early. My father used to make a couple of barrels of wine every year. I was allowed to drink some with dinner since I was 5 years old. So I naturally gravitated towowards Valolicella's, Montepulciano's, Chianti's, Amarone's and Barolo's.

Bundwallah, we grew up very similarly. Making wine is something I always remember doing each year. My dad and I still make wine together every year. This last October we made zinfandel and a sangiovese. All my uncles also make great wine with one that makes the most amazing Moscato, just wonderful and sweet each year. It is something I look forward to every year and a great activity to share with my dad. My dad has taught me a great appreciation of Italian reds.

I just had a fabulous Pio Cesare Barolo last night, one of my personal favorites.

I love wines from all over the world, but Italian wines are my passion as well.

[Puros Y Vino]

Bundwallah, we grew up very similarly. Making wine is something I always remember doing each year. My dad and I still make wine together every year. This last October we made zinfandel and a sangiovese. All my uncles also make great wine with one that makes the most amazing Moscato, just wonderful and sweet each year. It is something I look forward to every year and a great activity to share with my dad. My dad has taught me a great appreciation of Italian reds.

I just had a fabulous Pio Cesare Barolo last night, one of my personal favorites.

I love wines from all over the world, but Italian wines are my passion as well.

You know it's funny. Every season my parents did something. Whether they made wine, pickling hot peppers and onions, olives, making tomato sauce or prosciutto and sausages. They'd always enlist my two older brothers and I, somewhat reluctantly on our part. Now I regret that I did not pay more attention. The only thing on that list my mom still does every year (father passed away 20+ years ago) is make tomato sauce. One brother and I still go help my mother. We make sauce by the barrel full. An oil barrel to be precise And it is worth every minute of effort. Store bought tomato sauce is terrible. We make two types. One is a pure tomato sauce with basil leaves. The other is a more "pezzetti" style. The tomatoes are chopped vs put through the grinder, we add onions, parsley & garlic cloves. And this is made specifically for pizza or any "cacciatore" style dishes. I've recently bought some books and magazines on making wine. I'm going to enlist my brother. He has the same regret. We're going to give it a shot and have fun doing it. Perhaps we'll even light up a few cigars during the process. And if a decent wine is the end result. We're going to drink them at all family get togethers.

I'm going to look up a Pio Cesare Barolo. Any particular years? I have not had any luck with Barolos these days. Thankfully my Tedeschi 2005 Amarones always deliver.

[Erm310mce]

You know it's funny. Every season my parents did something. Whether they made wine, pickling hot peppers and onions, olives, making tomato sauce or prosciutto and sausages. They'd always enlist my two older brothers and I, somewhat reluctantly on our part. Now I regret that I did not pay more attention. The only thing on that list my mom still does every year (father passed away 20+ years ago) is make tomato sauce. One brother and I still go help my mother. We make sauce by the barrel full. An oil barrel to be precise And it is worth every minute of effort. Store bought tomato sauce is terrible. We make two types. One is a pure tomato sauce with basil leaves. The other is a more "pezzetti" style. The tomatoes are chopped vs put through the grinder, we add onions, parsley & garlic cloves. And this is made specifically for pizza or any "cacciatore" style dishes. I've recently bought some books and magazines on making wine. I'm going to enlist my brother. He has the same regret. We're going to give it a shot and have fun doing it. Perhaps we'll even light up a few cigars during the process. And if a decent wine is the end result. We're going to drink them at all family get togethers.

I'm going to look up a Pio Cesare Barolo. Any particular years? I have not had any luck with Barolos these days. Thankfully my Tedeschi 2005 Amarones always deliver.

Same here, when I was younger I didn't appreciate it as much but as I got older to understand I really got into it. We make the tomato sauce in August too and the whole family helps out, can't stand the store tomatoes. Well worth it for the year! The pezzetti style sounds great! I may try that this year. My mom still does the hot peppers in oil, she does 2 kinds 1 with provolone wrapped in proscuitto and another with tuna and capers. She does a lot of cacciatore with the sauce too, rabbit mostly. I try to continue the traditions as much as I can and luckily my wife loves it too and she jumps right in.

For the Pio Cesare, I love 2004 and 2005, the 2004 is more expensive. If you get a chance to try them, would love your opinion. I also like Tedeschi Amarones! The Pio is around the same price for 2005. Amarones are such a special wine, one of my favorites.

[Ken Gargett]

I struggle with the idea of chateauneuf du pape. Don't get me wrong they produce great wine, but because of Parker the price is over valued, there are plenty of southern french wine or cote rhone that will kick it's ass at half if not quarter of the price.

elie, you can say the same about most regions - think bordeaux. lots of cab blends around that blow it away, especially re value. but some stunners there.

the best wine i had last year, hands down, was a chateauneuf du pape (rayas 90) and there were a few others right up there (la chapelle, henri bonneau and more).

[Ken Gargett]

I'm going to look up a Pio Cesare Barolo. Any particular years? I have not had any luck with Barolos these days. Thankfully my Tedeschi 2005 Amarones always deliver.

love the tedeschi amarones but if i may make a quick comment re barolo's, if you've had no luck then you really are unlucky or perhaps barolo is not a style that suits you.

they have had the best run of vintages in their history, starting with 1995. 96 terrific, 97 gorgeous, 98 and 99 brilliant, 00 - i think this was rated 100/100 by wine spec and then along comes 2001 which was even better. 2002 only dud tho 03 was extremely hot and so it is not the best. then 2004, perhaps the best of them all, 05, just lovely and more forward and will drink earlier than 04 and 06. 2006 a challenger for 04.

don't give up!

[Colt45]

if you've had no luck then you really are unlucky or perhaps barolo is not a style that suits you.

Ken, I agree. But to speak generally (and not for anyone), I sometimes get the feeling that some expect Barolo and / or Barbaresco to be "big" wines,

while when made in a more traditional style they tend to be more austere - at least in my experience.

As of late, I've been drinking quite a bit of poor man's Amarone - some less expensive ripassos.

[Puros Y Vino]

love the tedeschi amarones but if i may make a quick comment re barolo's, if you've had no luck then you really are unlucky or perhaps barolo is not a style that suits you.

they have had the best run of vintages in their history, starting with 1995. 96 terrific, 97 gorgeous, 98 and 99 brilliant, 00 - i think this was rated 100/100 by wine spec and then along comes 2001 which was even better. 2002 only dud tho 03 was extremely hot and so it is not the best. then 2004, perhaps the best of them all, 05, just lovely and more forward and will drink earlier than 04 and 06. 2006 a challenger for 04.

don't give up!

I think my luck and selection at the LCBO (alchohol distribution/sales is monopolized by our provincial gov't) is what's to blame for my Barolo woes. The style definitely suits me. The two best bottles I had were thanks to my good friend who whenever he's invited for dinner and cigars he has the common decency to bring an excellent wine. Two times he brought a 1999 & 2001 bottle of Barolo the names of which escape both he and I. Ever since I've been searching high and low to recapture the aromas and flavours I experienced then. I've tried bottles at the $50 range and $25 range. The wines were not up to snuff. They didn't have the inky richness that I came to expect. Thankfully, the Amarone market is easier to nagivate. More selection and slightly lower prices. These days my Tatone Montepulciano D'Abruzzo 2005's always put a smile on my face.