Investing in first release CCs

[JoshMP]

So with all of the stories about first run boxes of siglo vi and how valuable and impressive they are i've been thinking;

What's your opinion of first run boxes as investment purchases?

I'm wondering at the moment about the Behike line (heavily) rumored to be coming out soon - is it worth it to buy a box of each size so in ten years time I can be one of the proud ones who says "oh yes, i have a box of first run Behikes"?

I have a friend who religiously purchases a box of each edicion limitada that comes out and has been since they were first released, you can visibly see him smug when he opens his humidor and sees them all stacked up there.

[Colt45]

Personally, I'm a smoker, not a collector, so it means little to me. I try to acquire great cigars - to smoke! As for cigars as an investment, you'd

need to have absolute proof of provenance if you're hoping to sell in the future, and you never know if the value will increase down the line.

[OZCUBAN]

Personally, I'm a smoker, not a collector, so it means little to me. I try to acquire great cigars - to smoke! As for cigars as an investment, you'd

need to have absolute proof of provenance if you're hoping to sell in the future, and you never know if the value will increase down the line.

My sentiments exactly life's to short. smoke the best cigars you can afford, thats what it is all about.

Oh and yes enjoy them

Oz

[PADDYWHACK121272]

Agree with the above replies - there are easier ways to turn a shilling in my opinion but it all depends how you get your kicks - personally I like to see my hard-earned go up in smoke!....welcome to the forum

[JoshMP]

I'm a smoker too, I'd probably buy single sticks for the smoking though

But you're right; a full humi looks good but smoking a great cigar is always better.

Thanks for the welcome too! Glad to be a part of the forums.

[dcse]

Lead me not into temptation

Although I prefer the term "sampler" og "taster" to "smoker", the challenge is the ratio between HSA releases/standard production gems and the opportunities to enjoy the sticks. Life is short and the profit motivated investment track rather risky. Investment in future enjoyment is another matter altogether.

[finecigar]

I agree with the other replies. But I would recommend something like this (investment) for certain personalities- if you truly love Cohiba cigars and the quality they have, then go for it! I will most likely be doing the same with this upcoming Behike line, but more for my momentary enjoyment. Not just for "saying I have them in a humidor," but more for one to have a nice experience with a premium cigar more than rarely.

Life is too short...

In the end, it comes down to two essential things/ ideas: do you want that "collector's feel" or special like emotion every time you open your humidor to see that you own some top cigars? (or) Would you like to be able to enjoy a phenomenal cigar as much as possible while living for the moment in time?

It's all a personal preference-

Hope to help

[thechenman]

I'm another "buy to smoke" kind of guy, but I prefer to age my smokes as well, so in a sense I am a collector short term, but in the long run, I plan on seeing my investment go up in smoke. Nothing would give me greater satisfaction.

In general, cigars really are not a good investment in terms of return on capital. Sure...the odd selection goes up in value, but maybe only for a short time. You have to be truly blessed with luck to make an appreciable amount of money, especially when there are so many other safer investment options that provide more stable returns. Something to think about.

[Colt45]

If I may throw something else out there, limited does not necessarily equate to "better".

[finecigar]

limited does not necessarily equate to "better".

- Agreed!

[aavkk]

Im a smoker and not necessarily a collector either although there is a reason why the original release Siglo VI's command a premium... They are awesome cigars. Many including myself consider them much better than the 04's and 05's, the 03's are just on another level. Other cigars I personally have had similar experiences with including the 06 vs 07 RA Estupendos. Others feel the original release edmundo dantes are better than the re-release,etc...

Sure some of the premium is specifically related to the fact that they are the first of it's kind but I feel that in most cases much of that premium is justified because of the better quality tobacco or better blend integrity.

[acidmase]

whats this talk about a behike line?

[Tampa1257]

I sample cigars, so I would not be considered a "Collector", yet when considering for a future investment, which would have greator "value", the Cohiba Behike that was released in the special Humidor that cost around $15,000 - $20,000? OR those that believe that the second time they produce the Behike is the first run of them?

It is of my opinion that those people that invested in the special humidor of the Behike's have very "right" to be completely pissed off with HSA for bringing the Cohiba Behike into regular production because it devalued the premium that HSA demanded for the special humidor release of the Behike.

It sort of worked the same way with the Wolters Release of the Bolivar Gold Metal. Once HSA saw how quick they were selling, I saw them offered for $500 -$600 for a box of ten cigars, then HSA brings out the cigar as a regular production.

Where is the value now?

Those that say not to invest in the future value of cigars are really telling you that in their opinion, it really is a crap shoot.

I buy cigars that I want to smoke, not "Collect".

[bassman]

I smoke & don't collect, but a couple points. IMHO, the Wolters BGMs are MUCH better quality than the regular releases from 06 & 07. And the ENE 05 Partagas P2s are better than any other code I've tried. Behikes? Can't afford them so others can take up that point.

[android]

Smokem if u got them!

Not a great long term investment.

[brian1]

I think the OR Behike humidors will not be hurt one iota from this new wannabe Behike line. Just because HSA slap the Behike name on some big girth cigar from a different year with different tobacco and packaging doesnt automatically devalue the OR Behike.

Same with the Wolter release BGM's. Plenty of people still gladly pay a premium for the Wolters release.

I sample cigars, so I would not be considered a "Collector", yet when considering for a future investment, which would have greator "value", the Cohiba Behike that was released in the special Humidor that cost around $15,000 - $20,000? OR those that believe that the second time they produce the Behike is the first run of them?

It is of my opinion that those people that invested in the special humidor of the Behike's have very "right" to be completely pissed off with HSA for bringing the Cohiba Behike into regular production because it devalued the premium that HSA demanded for the special humidor release of the Behike.

It sort of worked the same way with the Wolters Release of the Bolivar Gold Metal. Once HSA saw how quick they were selling, I saw them offered for $500 -$600 for a box of ten cigars, then HSA brings out the cigar as a regular production.

Where is the value now?

Those that say not to invest in the future value of cigars are really telling you that in their opinion, it really is a crap shoot.

I buy cigars that I want to smoke, not "Collect".

[PigFish]

I depend on myself to determine value. Value therefore is relative to the buyer. The seller has a part in determining cost which are two different things. Any cigar could therefore be a value, regardless the cost. I buy my cigars based on my value system and their corresponding utility to me, not based on the projected value of another. I am therefore not a collector and of little help. Cigars are many things to many people but they are primarily bunched leaves used by many to satisfy a desire for a taste. When they begin to leave that realm I have a lesser degree of interest in them. I want the best taste for my money, all other considerations are secondary. There is no wow value to me beyond the taste. If another values a cigar higher than I do, yes I may sell it at his value but that is rare indeed with me.

Every good cigar is valuable in its own right. The better the price you buy them for, assuming all other factors are similar, the better the value. Buy a good cigar at a good price and you win the game as I see it, you are a connoisseur. Buy another's favorite at a good price with the intent to sell it to him I suppose you are either retailer, or collector. One catagroy does not exclude another, you may be both or all three. I am but a connoisseur. -Piggy

[LeafLover]

I speculate if your friend's investment into EL's is for bragging rights. If so, nothing wrong with that. People take great pride in their possessions. But, what's the use of owning great cigars if you can't smoke them. Because once you smoke one out of the box, there goes your ability to sell that box for a profit.

Keeping cigars to age for 5-10 years, well that's a personal preference based on experience and preference in smoking aged cigars.

Otherwise, purchasing cigars for investment, IMO, might not be feasible...at least for me. If I had a box of rare cigars that I've been aging for ten years, don't know if I can part with it.

[brian1]

By two of everything and problem solved.

I speculate if your friend's investment into EL's is for bragging rights. If so, nothing wrong with that. People take great pride in their possessions. But, what's the use of owning great cigars if you can't smoke them. Because once you smoke one out of the box, there goes your ability to sell that box for a profit.

Keeping cigars to age for 5-10 years, well that's a personal preference based on experience and preference in smoking aged cigars.

Otherwise, purchasing cigars for investment, IMO, might not be feasible...at least for me. If I had a box of rare cigars that I've been aging for ten years, don't know if I can part with it.

[mb55317]

whats this talk about a behike line?

Check out this http://www.cubancigarwebsite.com/3-news.ht...0_Cigar_Program

[El Presidente]

I rarely give advice on cigars as an investment. The concept is simply foreign to me personally.

For what it is worth. No "average" cigar that has ever been made has commanded an investment premium unless vintage. That is simply supply and demand from collectors.

The above statement includes first release, LE's RR etc.

Exceptional First Release cigars such as the Cohiba Siglo IV do command a premium. They have earned that right. I don't see anyone chasing first release Monte Petit Edmundo, Edmundo or HDM Petit Robusto. Average cigars at best. The world is not stupid.

On the initial Behike Humidor I haven't seen any discounted. Rarity makes them tightly held by those that could afford to purchase them. Knowing a few owners of those I doubt they would bat an eyelid at the new Behike range. Different animal entirely. If the new Behike line meets the hype it will only enhance the initial humidor offering.

Cohiba Sublimes are another hot item. They have indeed gained in price. there are enough people around the world who consider them a masterpiece to pay the moola demanded.

The initial LE's have also held there own and then some in terms of return on investment although the rampaging faking of these has dented the market. Any offered for sale need to be throughly investigated as the vast majority are superb fakes and worthless.

HSA has indeed bastardised the market on several releases. The Trinidad Farmhouse comes to mind. The original Boli Gold medal release by CW holds its own because it is again a special animal in terms of flavour unmatched by a mass market HSA release.

Just my 2 cents

[samb]

I dont have the funds to make much of an investment. I would rather buy whats smoking good now, so I can smoke it now. I will set a few aside to age, but no more than 5.

[Buch0]

The idea of collecting cigars purely to be sold in the future is unfathomable to me. Unless you buy 2 boxes of everything like someone mentioned, I couldn't imagine having a box of something like behikes locked up for a handful of years only to be sold down the track without having tasted one.

I can appreciate how special a large collection of rarities and LE's all stacked up may look, but I can guarantee the experience you would get from actually smoking the cigars would over rule any visual value they have! Each to their own though.

[finecigar]

The idea of collecting cigars purely to be sold in the future is unfathomable to me. Unless you buy 2 boxes of everything like someone mentioned, I couldn't imagine having a box of something like behikes locked up for a handful of years only to be sold down the track without having tasted one.

I can appreciate how special a large collection of rarities and LE's all stacked up may look, but I can guarantee the experience you would get from actually smoking the cigars would over rule any visual value they have! Each to their own though.

I Agree-