Sancho Panza

[El Presidente]

It is upon the return of HSA from August Holidays that cigars proposed for discontinuation in 2010 are discussed. Over the next couple of weeks we will discuss cigars under threat.

How much do people love Sancho Panza? If you enjoy the Marque...which ones? I think we all know sales are poor of the Marque so any ideas how they can be revived?

[sloth]

I don't know about the other sizes, but the Non-Plus will always have a place in my heart, simply because it was my first box purchase of habanos.

[El Presidente]

I don't know about the other sizes, but the Non-Plus will always have a place in my heart, simply because it was my first box purchase of habanos.

Sloth, without trying to be facetious ....that is romantic and all but do you buy them regularly

If so ...why

If not...why not and what do you prefer?

[Jesuscookies]

It is upon the return of HSA from August Holidays that cigars proposed for discontinuation in 2010 are discussed. Over the next couple of weeks we will discuss cigars under threat.

How much do people love Sancho Panza? If you enjoy the Marque...which ones? I think we all know sales are poor of the Marque so any ideas how they can be revived?

What are they trying to get down to one brand?

[Guibou]

I love the Sancho Panza Corona.

One of my favorite corona, toasted and nuts flavors, very enjoyable.

But already difficult to find (only in Cuba, and a box that was left in Taipei).

I actually smoked my last one few days ago, just before a Sunday Brunch, my favorite moment!

[Tampa1257]

Could be lost without a second thought, same with Guantanamera.

[sloth]

Sloth, without trying to be facetious ....that is romantic and all but do you buy them regularly

If so ...why

If not...why not and what do you prefer?

I get what you are saying and you're right. I bought a few boxes a few years ago... i haven't recently, but it isn't the NP's fault. I have the idea of buying a box in the near future... who knows I may change my mind about them when I smoke the recent production.

I remember enjoying every one that i smoked, but i was new to habanos at that time

ok,i'll have to get back to you on this...

[El Presidente]

I always have a box of the Belicosos. Some are great and others not-so-great. But, I'd hate to see them go. If the production quality wasn't so inconsistent, they would be more popular. The band is probably my favorite, along with the spirit of the brand's namesake. The ones pictured in the Premium Select thread are beautiful.

I agree with you. Quality has been all over the place for many years.

If Quality is the major issue then they need to know. I would also like to see a greater effort made to explain the history of the brand + what its blend is trying to achieve.

[Guest rob]

I'd get over losing the brand pretty quickly.

[qman22]

Perhaps a regional release or EL edition would spark new interest in the marque? I have only had the Non Plus, so I can't comment too much on the brand, but still hate to see the HSA portfolio shrink even more. The problem may also be neglect, HSA doesn't seem to focus their marketing efforts too seriously on this brand.....

[Guibou]

I love the Sancho Panza Corona.

One of my favorite corona, toasted and nuts flavors, very enjoyable.

But already difficult to find (only in Cuba, and a box that was left in Taipei).

I actually smoked my last one few days ago, just before a Sunday Brunch, my favorite moment!

Forgot to mention the Sancho Sancho, the cousin of the Montecristo A.

Pretty good start considering the size, which is really enjoyable.

But unfortunately getting quite boring after first half...

In fact the total opposite than the Monte A, which tends to be late in delivering a 'kick' so to speak.

Oh and the Sancho Corona Gigantes is quite a yummy one too.

But again, same impression than for the Sancho Sancho, everything comes in first half then it becomes flat.

Not that there are no more flavors, but there's no more evolution.

[Guibou]

Perhaps a regional release or EL edition would spark new interest in the marque?

Mh-mmm a Pyramide Regional Edicion would be great! or a Robusto!

[Vinny]

I always have in my rotation the belicoso and the corona gigantes.

The CG needs time to fullfill it's potential but there are plenty of 2000-2002 on the market which are coming great now.

Basically if the brand had to "die" the only one I would trully miss would be the CG.

For the rest of the brand, I won't cry as I find it difficult to understand.

As Rob said There is probably some work to do by explaining better the history and the purpose of the brand in the middle of the other small brands such as RA or SLR which have clearly found their public.

But then looking at it by another point of view... I would rather like to see the Monte open "die" before SP... Sad that they put out such brands/cigars to make room for such some unexplainable line.

[neal875]

I agree with you. Quality has been all over the place for many years.

If Quality is the major issue then they need to know. I would also like to see a greater effort made to explain the history of the brand + what its blend is trying to achieve.

The problem is that the brand has no sex appeal, no bragging rights and no real advocates, Therefore the brand also gets no press; no RE or LE production, no sexy new bands (see H. Upmann for better or worse) and no new sizes or blends. And that is what it will take to turn it around. Right now, it's a time machine back to the 70s and 80s and a great history alone does not a great brand make. The question to ask the Habanos marketing folks is "Why should a customer want to buy a Sancho Panza?" I would love to hear their answer and then we will all know why we should invest in a box.

To me, Sancho Panza could represent an opportunity for Habanos to expand their overall portfolio of brands and create some fresh news and additional value for their customers. But that would take some real planning, marketing and financial investment as this one is really out of gas. It is always faster, cheaper and easier to just cut something than to really work on making it better. And, if Habanos will not make the investment, there is little chance of seeing SP around in three years--and I wouldn't care if it was or not.

[Ken Gargett]

SHAME, HABANOS, SHAME. where will we be if we keep losing the heritage? i know sancho panza is not one of the old names, or even a much favoured one, but surely diversity and variety is crucial. do we all want to be smoking the same five or six smokes in a few years, with a plethora of too often forgetable regional releases, gone from the mind quicker than most one hit wonders?

i've enjoyed a few of the sancho's which can be a worthwhile smoke but i understand a producer needs more than that size.

i am loving the aged coronas i got in a recent foh sale. 2001's and they are terrific.

but what hurts is the corona gigantes, which i understand are discontiniued anyway. tragedy. these are absolute crackers with some age. i would defy anyone to enjoy a good aged one of these and then not want to march off to the plaza and demonstrate against their demise.

is this what the revolution has come to?

[anacostiakat]

The only ones I really used to like are the beli. A good cigar but not a great cigar. I have not bought any in years frankly and would not miss them.

[laficion]

Sloth, without trying to be facetious ....that is romantic and all but do you buy them regularly

If so ...why

If not...why not and what do you prefer?

Sancho Panza has always been a niche brand, mainly in Spain, where it's always had strong followers. I have enjoyed the brand for over 35 years and would really be pissed off if it were to disappear. For some reason, SP has always had a hard time on

the market. just read the short history in MRN's book, and you'll see that it was difficult from the start, but the brand stayed a good seller in Spain. In the early 70's you could not find SP in France, you had to go to Belgium or Spain to get a box .In the 70's, I was truly fascinated by the Bolivar Gold Medal but I sometimes found that the SP Dorados, which had the same gold foil & size as the Boli's, had more to it then the Gold medals.

I only once had the chance to smoke a PETIT ROYALES, which was almost a small robusto and it was fantastic, but by the late 70's, it was already gone. I stayed quit loyal to the brand because of it's blend. It had a very floral honey taste and soft earthy notes compared to today's blend. I still enjoy the Non Plus

and the Coronas Gigantes but I admit, less today because I find that, somewhere, the blend is just not there. I'm sure that if HSA, would just put a small efford on the blend and market the brand, just a little more, it would not take long for the brand to come back. All it would need is to bring back the Cabinet Petit Royales on the market as a EL or ER with a blend that comes close to the origional and I'm sure that it would work. The real question is, are they really that interested in bring back a brand, once you see what they are doing with Montecristo and the OPEN line.

[Stalebread]

There's a Sancho Panza on the list of tentative REs for 2010 (as per Trevor's site).

[bassman]

Wouldn't miss them a bit. The only ones I ever bought were a couple boxes of Coronas Gigantes. They're not bad, but when they run out I'll manage to suffer smoking Bolivar's Coronas Gigantes.

[dizedean]

I have never smoked one.

At this rate unless one is gifted I probably never will.

There is not a one on my wish list.

I probably am not the perfect one for this thread because I have never had one to smoke.

But truth be told if they were discontinued I would not be effected at all.

DSS

[Smallclub]

If you have never had an aged Molinos or Corona Gigantes, you have no idea of the qualities that can be found in this marca. The corona is very good too.

In my experience the smaller sizes are much less interesting and their construction is often dodgy…

However I would miss the marca if they decide to cut it…

[PigFish]

My first response is... Sancho who? As one who does not support or appreciate the brand I would be a hypocrite if I said that I supported the brand by buying the cigars. I have in the past and as a result of poor performance in the sizes that I have smoked I will buy them no longer.

Otherwise if I am allowed to opine and vote with more that my money I would have to agree with Ken here. As being an overall supporter of Cuban heritage cigars I am more in favor of them improving the blends and quality of the cigars once more revitalizing my interest in them over the extinction of the line. The loss of another lonsdale does not bode well for the breed. Would I trade the loss of the Party lonsdale for that of the SP; you bet? But a trade is not a part of the offer and extinction is just another loss to those who appreciate them and have supported them.

SHAME, HABANOS, SHAME. where will we be if we keep losing the heritage? i know sancho panza is not one of the old names, or even a much favoured one, but surely diversity and variety is crucial. do we all want to be smoking the same five or six smokes in a few years, with a plethora of too often forgetable regional releases, gone from the mind quicker than most one hit wonders?

i've enjoyed a few of the sancho's which can be a worthwhile smoke but i understand a producer needs more than that size.

i am loving the aged coronas i got in a recent foh sale. 2001's and they are terrific.

but what hurts is the corona gigantes, which i understand are discontiniued anyway. tragedy. these are absolute crackers with some age. i would defy anyone to enjoy a good aged one of these and then not want to march off to the plaza and demonstrate against their demise.

is this what the revolution has come to?

[El Presidente]

Sancho Panza needs a few things:

Re-work the packaging and make the brand only available in boxes of 10 and special cabs of 50.

• Belicosos only in boxes of 10 and Cabs of 50.
  
• Corona's same.
  
• Churchill etc.
  

Go from dress box to timber boxes. Burn image of Sancho Panza into boxes.

Introduce a new size either as a Celestiales Fino or a Flying Pig. Same packaging as above.

[Ken Gargett]

Sancho Panza needs a few things:

Re-work the packaging and make the brand only available in boxes of 10 and special cabs of 50.

• Belicosos only in boxes of 10 and Cabs of 50.
  
• Corona's same.
  
• Churchill etc.
  

Go from dress box to timber boxes. Burn image of Sancho Panza into boxes.

Introduce a new size either as a Celestiales Fino or a Flying Pig. Same packaging as above.

bring back the corona gigantes.

[bunburyist]

I'd defo agree with the comments re branding and packaging.

I think most newcomers to the cigar world would assume Sancho Panza was a budget line. The small range doesn't help either.

Perhaps a bit more effort would get them more attention. My mouth waters when I see a box of Bolivar, RyJ, Allones etc.

Unless of course they're aimed mostly at the Spanish day-to-day market.....then perhaps our expectations are too high.