EAR: Received Five fake boxes.

[El Presidente]

EAR= Email Assistance Required. 

 

"That about wraps it up Rob. A batch of boxes was purchased from a private estate, and it’s now clear that a portion of them are not genuine. There’s no dispute on that point. The pricing reflected market value, the family involved had no knowledge of any issues, and the loss sits with the buyer.

The wider collection being offered is significant in size. Given that roughly a quarter of the boxes already reviewed proved problematic, the question is whether there is any broader duty of care to make others aware. The family has no idea. Yet, with 120 boxes yet to sell, do prospective buyers need a warning that at least some of the boxes are not authentic?

I’m comfortable accepting this as part of the risk that comes with the territory, but I’d genuinely appreciate member perspectives on how they would approach this situation.

 

Over to you good folk 

[Gemini_Man]

What's the dilemma here exactly? Fakes are confirmed, they shouldn't be sold at all!! The original buyer already got swindled, don't replicate the scam man.

[zacca]

The family has no knowledge but they’re happy to accept market rate, so then it’s just as fair for you to warn whoever you want to. 

[El Presidente]

2 minutes ago, Gemini_Man said:

What's the dilemma here exactly? Fakes are confirmed, they shouldnt be sold at all!! The original buyer already got swindled, dont replicate the scam man.

Family estate. They don't know/likely care. That doesn't make them bad people. No doubt they are offloading a host of estate non cigar offerings as well. To them, they just want to get to the finishing line of a painful period. 

Does the buyer go on Reddit and similar to warn others? I think that is the question he was alluding to. 

[Gemini_Man]

"Do prospective buyers need a warning that at least some of the boxes are not authentic?".... In what situation exactly would it be ethical to keep quiet?! 

I'm so confused.

[El Presidente]

7 hours ago, Gemini_Man said:

"Do prospective buyers need a warning that at least some of the boxes are not authentic?".... In what situation exactly would it be ethical to keep quiet?! 

I'm so confused.

Sead set fair point. 

Assuming he was dealing with "Mrs Jones"' 86 year old mother and daughter Jane, 55 year old who wouldn't know a cigar from a carrot. Lovely people. 

My issue is that they did enough research to ask for market price. 

[Ford2112]

I would blow the whistle.

[painfreefishing]

Unfortunate situation but I would not propagate the scam. Perhaps inform the family and give them the opportunity to do the right thing. 

[chasy]

Unfortunately, we in the Habanos world are all too familiar with this tale. To simplify, let’s pretend it isn’t cigars. Let’s say it’s watches or art or vintage cars. Would you say something?

I'd let them know and ask to sell back the fakes at the purchased price and eat the shipping.

[JPark3]

At a minimum, the family should be asked if they knew some were fakes and be offered a chance to make things right before blowing the whistle.

[Lucas Buck]

Sound the alarm. Absolutely. No question. 

[david9985]

Whether or not the sellers were aware that some of the stock may not be genuine, approach it as if they were unaware: Respectfully and sensitively explain to the sellers that some boxes aren't genuine and that the sale of the inventory needs to reconsidered.

If they choose to continue the sale without full disclosure, there is no issue with flagging to potential buyers that they should be wary.

[sbsbsb1]

1 hour ago, david9985 said:

Whether or not the sellers were aware that some of the stock may not be genuine, approach it as if they were unaware: Respectfully and sensitively explain to the sellers that some boxes aren't genuine and that the sale of the inventory needs to reconsidered.

If they choose to continue the sale without full disclosure, there is no issue with flagging to potential buyers that they should be wary.

This 100%

[gormag38]

1 hour ago, david9985 said:

Whether or not the sellers were aware that some of the stock may not be genuine, approach it as if they were unaware: Respectfully and sensitively explain to the sellers that some boxes aren't genuine and that the sale of the inventory needs to reconsidered.

If they choose to continue the sale without full disclosure, there is no issue with flagging to potential buyers that they should be wary

I like this a lot. It's likely the family is ignorant of the issues but if they're made aware and continue to try and sell off the remaining stock then alarms should be set off.

11 hours ago, El Presidente said:

My issue is that they did enough research to ask for market price. 

This indeed is an interesting tidbit. They obviously dug into things a little bit; is it possible that they just never considered the fact that they could be fugazi? Or did they 'skim' over some any research when 'provenance' showed up. 

[Chibearsv]

Sale was acknowledged as buyer beware. I don’t see any responsibility or reason for the buyer to warn the general public. If the buyer’s got friends considering a purchase, nothing wrong with giving them a heads up. 

[Gemini_Man]

1 hour ago, Chibearsv said:

Sale was acknowledged as buyer beware. I don’t see any responsibility or reason for the buyer to warn the general public. If the buyer’s got friends considering a purchase, nothing wrong with giving them a heads up. 

Your supermarket buy 100 boxes of cereal from General Mills, 25% of it has tested contaminated/rotten/has pebbles in it. Supermarket has no obligation to alert for a recall or to warn its customers?!

[BrightonCorgi]

1 hour ago, Chibearsv said:

Sale was acknowledged as buyer beware. I don’t see any responsibility or reason for the buyer to warn the general public. If the buyer’s got friends considering a purchase, nothing wrong with giving them a heads up. 

I would stay out of it.  It's not your show to rain on their parade. If someone asks, you should be honest, but I wouldn't be active in derailing their estate sale.

[joeypots]

13 hours ago, El Presidente said:

A batch of boxes was purchased from a private estate, and it’s now clear that a portion of them are not genuine.

The estate sold the whole collection

 

13 hours ago, El Presidente said:

Yet, with 120 boxes yet to sell, do prospective buyers need a warning that at least some of the boxes are not authentic?

The merchant, who presumably bought the collection to sell, now knows for sure that 25% of the boxes are counterfeits, wants to know if there is a obligation to notify prospective buyers that there are fakes in the collection? 

WTF? Grow a spine and suck it up. Buyer beware? Seller knows. End of story.

[BrightonCorgi]

2 minutes ago, joeypots said:

The merchant, who presumably bought the collection to sell, now knows for sure that 25% of the boxes are counterfeits, wants to know if there is a obligation to notify prospective buyers that there are fakes in the collection? 

WTF? Grow a spine and suck it up. Buyer beware? Seller knows. End of story.

This seller would be a fraud if he promoted the fakes as authentic.  He could say he doesn't know which are real or not and leave it at that.

[joeypots]

1 hour ago, BrightonCorgi said:

This seller would be a fraud if he promoted the fakes as authentic.  He could say he doesn't know which are real or not and leave it at that.

Indeed

[NYGuido]

1 hour ago, BrightonCorgi said:

This seller would be a fraud if he promoted the fakes as authentic.  He could say he doesn't know which are real or not and leave it at that.

Also potentially different legal obligations accrue to a merchant with knowledge vs a random person selling a dead relative’s collection. 

[BrightonCorgi]

I am curious to what determined some boxes were fake when many were not.

Most of us have bought boxes from legitimate sources that most well-known indicators may point to them being fake but were not.  Chevrons in the wrong place, missing box code, etc...   Sure, the glass top Cohibas are one thing, but someone with 100+ boxes probably isn't buying those to start with.