How much importance do you put on factory codes?

[Gubbins]

I understand the answer to this question will depend on many things. For example, if you are in no immediate need for extra boxes you can afford to be picky.

So going off the pretext that; you have just ran out of your favourite regular production cigar, and need more. You see a box at a great price, but the factory code is not one of the big 5 / more prestigious factories.

Would you ever actively turn down a box of cigars you are in the market for based purely on the factory it was made?

Do all factories get the same quality rollers and leaf, and as a result create the same quality cigars?

are all factories created equal or are there any you will actively avoid due to perceived inferiority?

[Li Bai]

I never really cared about factory codes but I live in a country where buying online is prohibited and it's a whole different game. I learnt to look at cigars, smell and touch them before purchasing.

There was a time (not so long ago🥲) where I could even sample some boxes before buying it whole. If I was seduced, the box would be waiting for me at the B&M, but those were different times.

If I had ever been able to buy online, I probably would have sought after box codes.

[Puros Y Vino]

I've tried code chasing a bit and TBH it wasn't worth it. Most recently, I grabbed a box of the fabled "El Laguito" E2's several years back. They are very good but I don't see much of a difference from my other E2's from the same year (give or take one in either direction). Ideally, if you're buying Cohibas you want to ensure that they are from El Laguito and TBH I'm not aware of any being made outside of there, so you should be safe. I think there's some truth behind a good run of cigars that came from the same batch, factory, etc. But the way I smoke my stash, I'll try from one box, move to another and not go back for a year or two. If the cigar has improved, I chalk it up to rest and aging vs being a good box code.

[Gubbins]

 

2 hours ago, Puros Y Vino said:

I've tried code chasing a bit and TBH it wasn't worth it. Most recently, I grabbed a box of the fabled "El Laguito" E2's several years back. They are very good but I don't see much of a difference from my other E2's from the same year (give or take one in either direction). Ideally, if you're buying Cohibas you want to ensure that they are from El Laguito and TBH I'm not aware of any being made outside of there, so you should be safe. I think there's some truth behind a good run of cigars that came from the same batch, factory, etc. But the way I smoke my stash, I'll try from one box, move to another and not go back for a year or two. If the cigar has improved, I chalk it up to rest and aging vs being a good box code.

Interesting to hear a take on those El laguito E2’s, I’ve read about them quite recently. Yeah, I think there is no doubt there are certain codes, which have had periods of brilliance for one reason or another. But I was wondering if people think boxes from Granma / Sancti Spiritus for example, would tend to have a lower quality output over a long period, than factories such as Partagas or Upmann.

I've never really avoided a box based on a lesser known factory myself, but wondered if you would have a higher chance of getting an ‘off box’ from a less fabled factory.

[Puros Y Vino]

1 hour ago, Gubbins said:

Interesting to hear a take on those El Laguito E2’s, I’ve read about them quite recently.

By the time I heard of them, about a years worth of them had made their way out. My friends' boxes had very dark wrappers. Mine are more Colorado/Claro. Legend is the original batches were BHK54 filler and binder, minus the Medio Tiempo and wrappers. Which is why they were rolled due to leaf shortages of the latter. 

[BrightonCorgi]

If it were a box or Lanceros or Esplendidos I would want them to come from El Laguito. Sir Winstons from Upmann factory. Those are nice to have, but I'd take a box of prettier cigars vs. the factory if presented with both.  

[SCgarman]

1 hour ago, Gubbins said:

Interesting to hear a take on those El laguito E2’s, I’ve read about them quite recently. Yeah, I think there is no doubt there are certain codes, which have had periods of brilliance for one reason or another. But I was wondering if people think boxes from Granma / Sancti Spiritus for example, would tend to have a lower quality output over a long period, than factories such as Partagas or Upmann.

I've never really avoided a box based on a lesser known factory myself, but wondered if you would have a higher chance of getting an ‘off box’ from a less fabled factory.

You can get an "off" box from any of the factories, and are not "guaranteed" of any sort of perfection. Plenty of examples of members here recently saying there are multiple sticks out of a box that are duds. It is the nature of the beast with Cuba. They can't even keep the lights on there, or keep their citizens fed with adequate nutrition. The whole island is the definition of dysfunction. Moreso now than ever. And it'll likely get worse.

[El Presidente]

Would you ever actively turn down a box of cigars you are in the market for based purely on the factory it was made?

NO

Do all factories get the same quality rollers and leaf, and as a result create the same quality cigars?

NO

are all factories created equal.

NO

are there any you will actively avoid due to perceived inferiority?

NO

Factories have the same bones. It then comes down to the manager/management and the buy in from the team (rollers/QC/etc). 

If factories were given a "power rating"....like you would rate NFL/College teams, then the only correlation you would see is factories rise and fall based on managers/teams. I have seen a factory rise from No 5 to No 1 in two years only for it to again fall down the ranking field because the manager moved on to another factory. 

[Chibearsv]

The best cigar I smoked last year was in the same box as the worst cigar I’ve smoked this year. Is it a great box or a lousy box or just a Cuban box?  

[SCgarman]

10 hours ago, El Presidente said:

Would you ever actively turn down a box of cigars you are in the market for based purely on the factory it was made?

NO

Do all factories get the same quality rollers and leaf, and as a result create the same quality cigars?

NO

are all factories created equal.

NO

are there any you will actively avoid due to perceived inferiority?

NO

Factories have the same bones. It then comes down to the manager/management and the buy in from the team (rollers/QC/etc). 

If factories were given a "power rating"....like you would rate NFL/College teams, then the only correlation you would see is factories rise and fall based on managers/teams. I have seen a factory rise from No 5 to No 1 in two years only for it to again fall down the ranking field because the manager moved on to another factory. 

Let's not forget to mention many great rollers and higher ups in the factories have left Cuba for greener pastures in Nicaragua, Honduras and the Dominican. There are many reasons NC cigars don't have plugs, under fills, canoes, and all the inconsistent construction problems plagued with Habanos. 

[habanohal]

Never cared which factory besides the fact that it actually came from them.

[El Presidente]

2 hours ago, SCgarman said:

 don't have under fills

 

[Bagman]

7 hours ago, El Presidente said:

Not sure your point here. I smoke a ton of non-Cubans and have never once had an underfilled or plugged cigar. Not ONE. I'm sure others come across it occasionally. Perhaps cheaper 3 dollars ones may have this issue more. But if you think non-Cubans are full of under fills. . . .

 

[El Presidente]

6 hours ago, Monterey said:

Not sure your point here. I smoke a ton of non-Cubans and have never once had an underfilled or plugged cigar. Not ONE. I'm sure others come across it occasionally. Perhaps cheaper 3 dollars ones may have this issue more. But if you think non-Cubans are full of under fills. . . .

In that we agree to disagree. 

I see entire brands living in a world of easy draw underfilling. It is not a QC issue, its a pricing strategy.

[Bagman]

6 hours ago, El Presidente said:

In that we agree to disagree. 

I see entire brands living in a world of easy draw  underfilling. It is not a QC issue, its a pricing strategy. 

Padron used to do that, but they stopped about 2 years ago, thank goodness. But yeah if we are comparing plugs and loose fills from new world to Cubans, it would be like a SuperBowl between the Chiefs and the Giants!

[Chas.Alpha]

I’m going to perform the only moderator duty I have ever done, more likely that I’ll ever do. Put this thread back on topic.

The ARS 19 Fundies are (were) the best I’ve ever had. Not a main factory. MSU was a code I chased, because the BPC coming out of there were superb. I burned thru boxes of those like Sherman thru Atlanta. The P2 and RASS from the same year/code were fine, not exceptional. I stashed back some TUA 20/21 BPC out of superstition, but they haven’t shown the quality of the Boli MSU. (Same factory)

I would guess that 20 bales of tobacco destined to be Boli arrived and everyone went to work. I have never noticed a better or worse factory code. Maybe they changed management?

[SCgarman]

6 hours ago, El Presidente said:

In that we agree to disagree. 

I see entire brands living in a world of easy draw  underfilling. It is not a QC issue, its a pricing strategy.

FWIW I'll take a "little loose" drawing (not necessarily underfilled) NC cigar over any over-filled (completely plugged and unsmokable) Cuban any day of the week. The plugged Cuban gets tossed in the trash. The NC gets smoked, albeit a slower pace. I'm with Monterey on this.

[Pmo13]

Not a lot really, but it’s always nice to see a mother factory pop up. Can be a little bit of a confidence boost in terms of roll quality.

[El Presidente]

4 hours ago, SCgarman said:

FWIW I'll take a "little loose" drawing (not necessarily underfilled) NC cigar over any over-filled (completely plugged and unsmokable) Cuban any day of the week. The plugged Cuban gets tossed in the trash. The NC gets smoked, albeit a slower pace. I'm with Monterey on this.

Agreed! We are on the same page. 

Still, Take a NC Robusto or Lancero and where it is 20% less in weight than a Cuban comparison (rolled right), I shudder. 

FFS I make NC's. QC is still my biggest issue. Muscle memory is hard to remove. They are ingrained to easy draw/underfill. 

[Fugu]

On 2/6/2025 at 4:39 AM, Gubbins said:

You see a box at a great price, but the factory code is not one of the big 5 / more prestigious factories.

Some of the most emblematic cigars do almost exclusively come from outside the “prestigious” (mother) factories. Some have not been made there for ages. In those cases, chasing the “big” codes and dismissing provincials would simply mean missing out.

For me personally, if at all - variety of selection these days is limited, anyway - it is trying to look for good runs. Which means more seeking out certain production /production periods rather than a particular factory. And even then – nothing is guaranteed. That’s part of the fun in this game.

[Bagman]

On 2/6/2025 at 3:14 PM, El Presidente said:

Agreed! We are on the same page. 

Still, Take a NC Robusto or Lancero and where it is 20% less in weight than a Cuban comparison (rolled right), I shudder. 

FFS I make NC's. QC is still my biggest issue. Muscle memory is hard to remove. They are ingrained to easy draw/underfill. 

You make it sound like the volume of issues between NC's and Cubans is the same. Whereas we usually find 2-3 plugged/loose cigars in a Cuban box, the amount of underfilled or plugged cigars in non-Cubans is less than 1 out of 100.

[El Presidente]

8 hours ago, Monterey said:

You make it sound like the volume of issues between NC's and Cubans is the same. Whereas we usually find 2-3 plugged/loose cigars in a Cuban box, the amount of underfilled or plugged cigars in non-Cubans is less than 1 out of 100.

It really depends on what you count as underfilling. There are some NC boxes where it is 100%...intentionally 

Agree with you on the rate of plugged cigars. Almost unseen in NC's. 

[CigarCulture09]

In the past 20 years, what year had the best quality tobacco in Cuba? 

[El Presidente]

2 hours ago, CigarCulture09 said:

In the past 20 years, what year had the best quality tobacco in Cuba? 

We will all have different opinions. 

2003/2014/15

 

[CigarCulture09]

4 hours ago, El Presidente said:

We will all have different opinions. 

2003/2014/15

Always glad to hear from people who have a lot more knowledge and experience than me. From a production and QC standpoint do you see things improving compared to a few years ago? You’ve been in this business for a long time and know a lot of people. Therefore your opinion carries extra weight.