U.K. Generational Tobacco Ban Resurrected by New Labour Government

[Chitmo]

53 minutes ago, 99call said:

What can I tell you Rob? You think they embarrassing and silly. And so do I. They are not specialists in what they are trying to involved themselves in. Bono. Jolie etc etc. All tragic and pathetic.  

You must know better than all of them I bet. 😜 

[El Presidente]

57 minutes ago, 99call said:

This 100% happened during COVID. Nurses finishing shifts being picketed by vaccine nut jobs. Physically Intimidated and spat on.

Strange times. Hardly widespread. Not ongoing. Still, unforgiveable. 

[Chitmo]

Just now, El Presidente said:

Strange times. Hardly widespread. Not ongoing. 

👍 

[99call]

55 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

rich boomer blame

I think there is a huge amount of boomer blame in the UK. But that much more to do with massive tension between generational factors. I.e. pension security. No new homes. The property boom etc etc. 

The generation coming through are pissed off, and they have a right to be. My parents are both boomers. And they have nothing but sympathy for 18yr olds and younger.

[El Presidente]

49 minutes ago, 99call said:

  My parents are both boomers. And they have nothing but sympathy for 18yr olds and younger

I think your parents encapsulate the thoughts of most boomers. 

The left have "weaponized" the situation very  differently however. 

I appreciate the Saturday morning cerebral sparring Stefan 

....now I am off to gym 

[99call]

53 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

Strange times

Agreed. But. There is a massive movement trying to undermine and create conspiracies around health professionals. It's ongoing. All sorts of easily controlled diseases we were thought were consigned to the past, are coming back in to society because mothers are buying this bullshit and not having their kids given a whole range of immunisations. It's ridiculous.

[Fireball]

On the topic of smoking bans - I think you make it bad for all - or you don’t do it at all. Cigarette smoking is the source of so many illnesses and deaths and I would probably be open to them being banned or with severely limited availability. But, this whole idea that the state will force ‘its will’ on ONLY those who have no say is too totalitarian for me. 

[El Presidente]

3 hours ago, 99call said:

Agreed. But. There is a massive movement trying to undermine and create conspiracies around health professionals. It's ongoing. All sorts of easily controlled diseases we were thought were consigned to the past, are coming back in to society because mothers are buying this bullshit and not having their kids given a whole range of immunisations. It's ridiculous.

I hate to say this mate but health apparatchiks (as opposed to health professionals) are largely to blame. Mistruths (as opposed to straight out lies), subterfution, duplicity. It is no wonder an increasing % of the populace takes what they say with scepticism if not straight out derision. 

Should a pandemic hit again, what % this time around will simply raise the middle finger to health apparatchik dictates? Half? 

You can only go on past performance.

Health bureaucracy has positioned itself in a difficult situation.It is a left leaning institution and like teaching it doesn't try to hide it. Some level of neutrality would ease perceived targeting from the right. It won't happen. 

[99call]

6 hours ago, El Presidente said:

Mistruths (as opposed to straight out lies), subterfution, duplicity. It is no wonder an increasing % of the populace takes what they say with scepticism if not straight out derision. 

It was a novel/new corona virus.    internationally people made mistakes, and the problem shifted and evolved on a daily/hourly basis.     I would suggest people on a sliding scale between 'community spiritedness' and out and out libertarians,  were destined to react to the control measures vastly differently,  regardless of how successful or not the efforts were. 

Me personally, I was a company director of a limited company and was part of the 3 million in the UK who received no financial help/furlough through all the lock downs,    so be it, although personally damaging and done by a government I did not vote for or support, the reality was, it was a national crisis and somebody somewhere was going to get the thin end of the wedge.   Also, all of my contracts to work on site (and support myself) had been suspended for some reason by the council, even though much larger government aligned contractors were on site and allowed to work,  this made no sense to me.......but it was a national crisis and somebody somewhere etc etc.  I didn't see any of this as a personal victimisation of me, rather just how it was, how the cookie crumbled.    I think ego has a huge amount to do with how people perceived measures. If someone has a large ego, their reception of the corona virus measures was usually poor, as they felt personally let down, they weren't central to the thinking, rather just a small part of a larger generalised provision. 

My point is, is that my outlook was I was a part of a wider community and society, and we were pitching together in a blitz mentality.  Yes aspects of it seemed poorly thought out/carried out,  but there was a knowledge that it's easy to criticise and if everyone decides to break with the rules and be selfish, it would be absolute bedlam.   I am a patriot, I love my country and community in the real sense of the word,   not some plastic patriot who only gets misty eyed when things are going there way.       Many made extraordinary personal sacrifices, and I'm incredibly proud of them for doing so. 

I tend to find libertarian types like Nigel Farage and Arron Banks are imbued with supreme confidence that they know better twinned with absolutely zero desire to get their hands dirty and actually help.      If the kind of people who refer to civil servants as "The Blob". genuinely wanted to change things they would actually get involved, and take much smaller pay packets. 

I've worked within councils, and it can be hugely frustrating, and feel like walking through treacle at times, but my overarching opinion of those whom i worked with, it 90% of them with dedicated public servants and work hard to create positive change within there community,    When I was a kid the idea of privatisation was sold as some gleaming service that would arrive, and the clever city boys in suits would make everything better, fast forward a few decades, and the 'good chaps' weren't such good chaps, they were in fact asset stripping thieves.    The idea that people in business could have managed covid better than those in government is very seductive,  but I would suggest their is evidence to suggest when they get their hands on the tiller,  they are not particularly interested in health or well being of the public at large. 

Those who disagree with having their liberty affected in anyway, were always going to poke holes and try and game covid restrictions, there is no level of information you could provide these people, as they disagree with it on principle. 

[Li Bai]

No matter the topic, imo one should never expect any guidance from the authorities, it has to come from oneself.

Education, decency or as Mother Teresa once said, "If you want to change the World, go home and take care of your family", that's all there is.

@99call we don't know each other personally but I respect a lot your rebellion against things as they are. But expecting more from our leaders or even from anybody will always end up the same way, us vs them, forgetting we're all in this together.

[99call]

3 hours ago, Li Bai said:

@99call we don't know each other personally but I respect a lot your rebellion against things as they are. But expecting more from our leaders or even from anybody will always end up the same way, us vs them, forgetting we're all in this together.

I will remind you that in this instance, I am the one both supporting the motion to restrict sales of cigarettes planned by a previous government (Tory) and being brought in by a Labour government. It's others who are attacking it. Also, I am the one supporting the efforts made around the world, to deal with covid. 

3 hours ago, Li Bai said:

No matter the topic, imo one should never expect any guidance from the authorities, it has to come from oneself.

Guidance does come from oneself. Someone says to the public,  Please follow these measures for the greater good. Some peoples personal guidance says "Nah f**k the greater good, I've decided I don't respect these rules, so I won't follow them". Some people's personal guidance says, "whilst all these rules sound a bit contrived or contradictory, I'm going to pitch in to the national effort and do my bit". Some people might categorise them a "sheeple", I call them country loving patriots, just like those who blacked out their windows through the Blitz, lived on rations and "dug or Britain".

3 hours ago, Li Bai said:

Education, decency or as Mother Teresa once said, "If you want to change the World, go home and take care of your family", that's all there is.

That's not all there is, that's the biggest problem, (and BTW Mother Teresa is not a saint, although not a perfect person himself, what Christopher Hitchens has to say on the myth of Mother Teresa is illuminating). To suggest the idea of community or responsibility stops are your front door, to me it a supremely messed up snapshot of society. What is wrong with taking care of your family, but also being on hand to help your neighbour if they need it? To empathise with those more unfortunate in society, and give to charities if you can? Your picture is exactly what I find wrong with society,  a legion of captains in their castles, segregating and limiting their social responsibility to them and their direct family. 

But I will imagine we will agree to disagree and that's fine, I respect your opinion. You are right... "we're all in this together." 

[Li Bai]

10 hours ago, 99call said:

I will remind you that in this instance, I am the one both supporting the motion to restrict sales of cigarettes planned by a previous government (Tory) and being brought in by a Labour government. It's others who are attacking it. Also, I am the one supporting the efforts made around the world, to deal with covid. 

No need to remind me of it, I am attacking it myself. Tory, Labour, right, left,...This is all the same to me and I don't expect much from any politician.

10 hours ago, 99call said:

That's not all there is, that's the biggest problem, (and BTW Mother Teresa is not a saint, although not a perfect person himself, what Christopher Hitchens has to say on the myth of Mother Teresa is illuminating). To suggest the idea of community or responsibility stops are your front door, to me it a supremely messed up snapshot of society. What is wrong with taking care of your family, but also being on hand to help your neighbour if they need it? To empathise with those more unfortunate in society, and give to charities if you can? Your picture is exactly what I find wrong with society,  a legion of captains in their castles, segregating and limiting their social responsibility to them and their direct family.

I'm not a religious person, I could have quoted Voltaire, Carl Rogers or Marcus Aurelius on the same topic but Mother Teresa's quote was the one that came to mind, saint or not, I don't care.

For me it is enough to be there for those you can reach, be it family, Friends neighbours...because if those can do the same when it's their turn, then it spreads. You don't understand what I mean and that's okay, I didn't expect to be understood by you.

So many things have been done in the name of "the greater good" yet I'm still trying to figure out what it means. I'll leave it here but I won't agree to disagree, we're just not talking about the same thing.

[99call]

5 hours ago, Li Bai said:

For me it is enough to be there for those you can reach, be it family, Friends neighbours...because if those can do the same when it's their turn, then it spreads. You don't understand what I mean and that's okay, I didn't expect to be understood by you.

No I think I do understand what you mean, and if the general populous did, I think it would be a very nice sentiment. However, I do think and increasing majority see society as transactional, i.e. there is zero chance I'm putting in x amount of effort in, unless I'm getting an equal, if not greater return. The rhetoric I hear being banded around, is almost like a doomsday preppers approach to society. I.e. it's me and my family and everyone else is the opposition. 

[Li Bai]

4 hours ago, 99call said:

The rhetoric I hear being banded around, is almost like a doomsday preppers approach to society. I.e. it's me and my family and everyone else is the opposition.

Alright now we're talking, many things need to improve, I just believe it's only education that can make it happen. It will take two or three generations but it's the only way.

We are all in this together and it's about time everybody realised that. 

 

[El Presidente]

On 7/20/2024 at 8:13 PM, 99call said:

Guidance does come from oneself. Someone says to the public,  Please follow these measures for the greater good.

Sure. Sell it to me. Do what is necessary, provide the reasoning  to carry the majority of the populace.  

Trust is a double edged sword. It is earned. You will not convince all but you need to convince the majority. Most will give the benefit of the doubt. Once. After that there is review and the "trust coefficient" either rises, stays the same.....or falls. The "greater good" doctrine should not be used as a permanent barrier to deflect contrary argument/opinion. 

How are all those govt promised and much hyped "post covid reviews" going? Absolutely nowhere in most cases. People notice. People naturally ask what is there to hide? 

 

On 7/21/2024 at 2:28 AM, 99call said:

I do think and increasing majority see society as transactional, i.e. there is zero chance I'm putting in x amount of effort in, unless I'm getting an equal, if not greater return. The rhetoric I hear being banded around, is almost like a doomsday preppers approach to society. I.e. it's me and my family and everyone else is the opposition. 

Natural sentiment when segments of society are discarded and left behind. 

From families separated through covid at the stroke of a government bureaucrats pen (just one of countless examples) to those under 30 losing hope of ever having true housing security. Maslow's hierarchy of needs is the default. Once burnt, twice shy. 

 

[99call]

17 hours ago, El Presidente said:

Sure. Sell it to me. Do what is necessary, provide the reasoning  to carry the majority of the populace.  

Trust is a double edged sword. It is earned. You will not convince all but you need to convince the majority. Most will give the benefit of the doubt. Once. After that there is review and the "trust coefficient" either rises, stays the same.....or falls. The "greater good" doctrine should not be used as a permanent barrier to deflect contrary argument/opinion. 

How are all those govt promised and much hyped "post covid reviews" going? Absolutely nowhere in most cases. People notice. People naturally ask what is there to hide? 

 

Natural sentiment when segments of society are discarded and left behind. 

From families separated through covid at the stroke of a government bureaucrats pen (just one of countless examples) to those under 30 losing hope of ever having true housing security. Maslow's hierarchy of needs is the default. Once burnt, twice shy.

I think the reality is that, for people like yourself who were technically allowed to trade, it was the most frustrating because, you just wanted simple cold hard facts. My mate who owns a pub in the UK had a terrible time during the pandemic and wanted to pull his hair out. As he wanted to do the right thing, but felt like the goal posts were moving every day/every hour. 

Interestingly, in the UK (at the start) they speculated, that the UK public could not have the patience, nor dedication to follow lockdowns or control measures for sustained periods.??????? A nation (let us remind ourselves) that almost gets a sexual gratification for standing in queues??? Especially queues where nobody totally understands what the queue is for?? They massively underestimated the dedication and discipline of the people...a discipline it's leaders could not replicate the tiniest fraction of. 

I think peoples reactions to state enforced measures has a direct correlation to how much control they feel of their daily life. If someone in normal times feels completely unencumbered by rules and restrictions, it's that much harder to swallow when they do have to deal with it. You only have to look at Boris Johnson to see how some people can't quite grasp rule taking...even if it's their own. I think there are huge swaths of society, how feel like they have to eat shit (rules) on a daily basis, that found lockdown pretty easy. 

In conclusion, I will agree with you in part, that the quality and professionalism of the communication/leadership, has a direct relation to how much trust and obedience the majority will afford it. That said I think there is a huge swath of society, that either through ego, selfishness, individualism or libertarian values would baulk at any dictate no matter how well constructed, as it is just their nature. 

The post covid reviews are just starting to come out in the UK, and it's pretty damning, and I can't say that I'm surprised. 

On your 'Once burnt, twice shy' statement. If there is someone who lost a business, a loved one etc through what they felt was gross mis-management, then fair play to them, I completely understand. That said, the loudest voices I hear on this point. I.e. "if another pandemic happens, I'm gonna completely ignore all control measures." They are exactly the same people who were bragging they were ignoring the control measures of the pandemic we've just had, so I think that has to be taken on a case for case basis.

[MrBirdman]

1 hour ago, 99call said:

That said I think there is a huge swath of society, that either through ego, selfishness, individualism or libertarian values would baulk at any dictate no matter how well constructed, as it is just their nature. 

Exactly. The amount of Monday morning quarterbacking that is occurring post-COVID is pretty stunning. The people who protested within a month of lockdown were not right just because subsequent acquired knowledge might have shown some of the measures unnecessary. They were out there protesting because they’re ideologically opposed to any kind of collective action, not because they “saw through the science” and arrived at a considered conclusion that it was medically unnecessary. 

[El Presidente]

10 hours ago, MrBirdman said:

Exactly. The amount of Monday morning quarterbacking that is occurring post-COVID is pretty stunning. The people who protested within a month of lockdown were not right just because subsequent acquired knowledge might have shown some of the measures unnecessary. They were out there protesting because they’re ideologically opposed to any kind of collective action, not because they “saw through the science” and arrived at a considered conclusion that it was medically unnecessary. 

I feel for the hoardes on the other side who followed the bureaucrat dictates only to find out that those portrayed as 'selfish/insane/tin hat' weren't in the end completley nuts. Well not entirely.   Guaranteed many of those who toed the line have worked out that much of this was bullshit. Melbourne was shut down for 2 years FFS. Kids missed two years of proper schooling. citizens not permitted to return home for a year.  Do you wonder why people are effin angry? Do you really wonder why they just might say "no" the next time some pasty faced political hack tells them their world must stop for the "greater good".  Call them selfish/self-centered. I would call them seasoned. They have worked out that in large part, "the emperor has no clothes". They don't know who to trust. They certainly know it isn't automatically govt and their talking health puppets. 

For the record. On my 4th covid vax shot. Flu shot every year. I weigh up the information and make an informed choice ....of my making. However I will no longer decry anyone who decides to take a different approach to the preferred actions "mandated" by the lying buffoons we elect.  

[MrBirdman]

28 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

I feel for the hoardes on the other side who followed the bureaucrat dictates only to find out that those portrayed as 'selfish/insane/tin hat' weren't in the end completley nuts. Well not entirely.   Guaranteed many of those who toed the line have worked out that much of this was bullshit. Melbourne was shut down for 2 years FFS. Kids missed two years of proper schooling. citizens not permitted to return home for a year.  Do you wonder why people are effin angry? Do you really wonder why they just might say "no" the next time some pasty faced political hack tells them their world must stop for the "greater good".  Call them selfish/self-centered. I would call them seasoned. They have worked out that in large part, "the emperor has no clothes". They don't know who to trust. They certainly know it isn't automatically govt and their talking health puppets. 

For the record. On my 4th covid vax shot. Flu shot every year. I weigh up the information and make an informed choice ....of my making. However I will no longer decry anyone who decides to take a different approach to the preferred actions "mandated" by the lying buffoons we elect.  

Nope, not surprised, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they’re right. Being wrong sometimes is part of science - Sir Issac Newtown is still synonymous with genius even though Einstein proved he was technically wrong about physics.

And in any case, the point I was making wasn’t that some measures went too far in retrospect (they clearly did); my point is that there is a contingent of people who don’t care about the science at all. Anything they personally don’t like from the government gets lumped in together - they’ll oppose it regardless of the rationale or evidence. That’s why the US is filled with climate change deniers and people who don’t want to do anything about it (with a helping hand from the oil and gas industry).  

 

[99call]

9 hours ago, El Presidente said:

I feel for the hoardes on the other side who followed the bureaucrat dictates only to find out that those portrayed as 'selfish/insane/tin hat' weren't in the end completley nuts. Well not entirely.   Guaranteed many of those who toed the line have worked out that much of this was bullshit. Melbourne was shut down for 2 years FFS. Kids missed two years of proper schooling. citizens not permitted to return home for a year.  Do you wonder why people are effin angry? Do you really wonder why they just might say "no" the next time some pasty faced political hack tells them their world must stop for the "greater good".  Call them selfish/self-centered. I would call them seasoned. They have worked out that in large part, "the emperor has no clothes". They don't know who to trust. They certainly know it isn't automatically govt and their talking health puppets. 

For the record. On my 4th covid vax shot. Flu shot every year. I weigh up the information and make an informed choice ....of my making. However I will no longer decry anyone who decides to take a different approach to the preferred actions "mandated" by the lying buffoons we elect.  

In the UK, we can now look back and realise much of the decision making we were forced into, had a great deal to do with 

- The idiocy of austerity, and all of out systems had been run down and weakened

- Having prepared for the wrong type of pandemic in our nationally held stores

I think all this must be considered, i.e. we may criticise the idiocy of some decision making we observed during the pandemic...what we need to now understand is that was idiocy forced by prior idiocy. We need governments that 'fix the roof whilst the sun is shining', in order that we give ourselves time and poise to make good decisions in the bad times.

I think something important to remember in times of crisis, is that different sections of society wanted to write checks with other peoples asses. For example, I got a few local buses during the worst times of the pandemic, leading up to lockdowns. I would say 85% of people using buses were ethnic minorities, as were the drivers, and everyone was coughing and spluttering. I remember the likes or Sir Alan Sugar insisting "lazy b******ds, need to get back to the office." This is a man you lives a completely chauffeured existence, able to travel everywhere in complete isolation. He also tried to suggest gaslight the public endlessly insisting "no one he knew had died from covid, not one person". Months later, both his sister and his brother died from covid.

[Li Bai]

9 hours ago, MrBirdman said:

And in any case, the point I was making wasn’t that some measures went too far in retrospect (they clearly did); my point is that there is a contingent of people who don’t care about the science at all. Anything they personally don’t like from the government gets lumped in together - they’ll oppose it regardless of the rationale or evidence. That’s why the US is filled with climate change deniers and people who don’t want to do anything about it (with a helping hand from the oil and gas industry).

I think you're definitely right about that contingent of people who don't care about science, regardless of the country they live in. 

But science isn't a religion although we're constantly reminded to trust it blindly. I don't really know if that story has been told outside France but have you heard about Pr Didier Raoult ?

He's the first westerner to give hydroxychloroquine to his patients on a large scale as he had heard Chinese physicians saw promising results in early 2020 COVID patients (just to say he didn't come up with the idea himself).

At the time hospitals were still figuring out how to take care of those patients and as that drug was cheap and very well known (few secondary effects easily treated in a vast majority of the cases) it was a reasonable option. It made a lot of noise and the French Ministère of health was fighting it, as was the Ordre des Médecins. 

People didn't understand, as the drug was wildly considered harmless in the worst case and then informations leaked that Pr Raoult had been in bad terms with the apparatchiks for a long time.

A meta-analysis on hydroxychloroquine was published a little later in The Lancet and things turned around. The drug was banned to use for COVID patients in France and although The Lancet had to apologise about that publication which was completely opaque and invented sources, hydroxychloroquine was off the table for good.

After this and many other things, I personally can't be mad at anyone who doesn't trust the process as it clearly appears the rules are often bent to suit their purpose.

[Cigar Surgeon]

On 7/20/2024 at 10:16 AM, Fireball said:

On the topic of smoking bans - I think you make it bad for all - or you don’t do it at all. Cigarette smoking is the source of so many illnesses and deaths and I would probably be open to them being banned or with severely limited availability. But, this whole idea that the state will force ‘its will’ on ONLY those who have no say is too totalitarian for me. 

Yes but the way you get anti tobacco legislation passed with minimal resistance is to segment and isolate. "No one wants kids smoking right?" is how tobacco 21 got passed. No one bothered to stand up and say: hang on, 18 year-olds are not children.

[El Presidente]

8 hours ago, Li Bai said:

 I think you're definitely right about that contingent of people who don't care about science, regardless of the country they live in.

But science isn't a religion although we're constantly reminded to trust it blindly. I don't really know if that story has been told outside France but have you heard about Pr Didier Raoult ?

He's the first westerner to give hydroxychloroquine to his patients on a large scale as he had heard Chinese physicians saw promising results in early 2020 COVID patients (just to say he didn't come up with the idea himself).

At the time hospitals were still figuring out how to take care of those patients and as that drug was cheap and very well known (few secondary effects easily treated in a vast majority of the cases) it was a reasonable option. It made a lot of noise and the French Ministère of health was fighting it, as was the Ordre des Médecins.

People didn't understand, as the drug was wildly considered harmless in the worst case and then informations leaked that Pr Raoult had been in bad terms with the apparatchiks for a long time.

A meta-analysis on hydroxychloroquine was published a little later in The Lancet and things turned around. The drug was banned to use for COVID patients in France and although The Lancet had to apologise about that publication which was completely opaque and invented sources, hydroxychloroquine was off the table for good.

After this and many other things, I personally can't be mad at anyone who doesn't trust the process as it clearly appears the rules are often bent to suit their purpose.

 

While this is from the UK, the attitude was global. 

The Department of Health adviser suggests: "Rather than doing too much forward signalling, we can roll pitch with the new strain."

Mr Hancock says: "We frighten the pants of everyone with the new strain."

The adviser responds: "Yep, that's what will get proper behaviour change."

Covid was tragic but it also provided  cover for one of the worst type of humans to emerge..... the powerphobe. In such a supercharged arena they emerged at street, local, state, federal and international levels. These cockroaches get off on moving other human beings around the board. Lock ups, bans, interference, non science backed dictates. Control. Society becomes their voodoo doll to pin relentlessly. 

Of course when the light is shone on them post event, they scatter to the shadows yelling "greater good" as their self defence. These folk are the same who run the Tobacco 21 campaigns, the same who mandate the only safe level of alcohol is two drops from an eyedropper at Christmas. 

These dickheads have always existed but they thrive in a crisis when the public's better judgement is distracted. 

I love the demonising going on of that section of the public who apparently have the audacity to question the  "greater good" argument. Yes there are the 5G Microsoft conspiracy nutter component but don't use that argument to gaslight the populace that all those who dare to question are alfoil/tin hatters. 

Bottom line, a largely compliant populace in a tragic event had their trust in essential institutions shattered. Worse, they are now being blamed for future catastrophies because they may dare question "authority".  It is no wonder so many are wiping their hands of institutions and focusing on their loved ones, friends and themselves. People forget 99% of them are the same people who lined streets to clap nurses and doctors. Some will focus on the 1% of the nutters who yelled abuse or spat but that is not the vast majority. The public know who the heroes are and it isn't politicians and desk jockey public servant apparatchiks on a power play.

[Li Bai]

2 hours ago, El Presidente said:

While this is from the UK, the attitude was global. 

The Department of Health adviser suggests: "Rather than doing too much forward signalling, we can roll pitch with the new strain."

Mr Hancock says: "We frighten the pants of everyone with the new strain."

The adviser responds: "Yep, that's what will get proper behaviour change."

Covid was tragic but it also provided  cover for one of the worst type of humans to emerge..... the powerphobe. In such a supercharged arena they emerged at street, local, state, federal and international levels. These cockroaches get off on moving other human beings around the board. Lock ups, bans, interference, non science backed dictates. Control. Society becomes their voodoo doll to pin relentlessly. 

Of course when the light is shone on them post event, they scatter to the shadows yelling "greater good" as their self defence. These folk are the same who run the Tobacco 21 campaigns, the same who mandate the only safe level of alcohol is two drops from an eyedropper at Christmas. 

These dickheads have always existed but they thrive in a crisis when the public's better judgement is distracted. 

I love the demonising going on of that section of the public who apparently have the audacity to question the  "greater good" argument. Yes there are the 5G Microsoft conspiracy nutter component but don't use that argument to gaslight the populace that all those who dare to question are alfoil hatters. 

Bottom line, a largely compliant populace in a tragic event had their trust in essential institutions shattered. Worse, they are now being blamed for future catastrophies becasue they may dare question "authority".  It is no wonder so many are wiping their hands of institutions and focusing on their loved ones, friends and themselves. People forget 99% of them are the same people who lined streets to clap nurses and doctors. Some will focus on the 1% of the nutters who yelled abuse or spat but that is not the vast majority. The public know who the heroes are and it isn't politicians and desk jockey public servant apparatchiks on a power play.

Fully agreed 👍

[Uwiik]

Far left tyranical policy. They try to ban all kind of smoking, just because smoking looked like the thing people on the right would do. If it's really 100% aimed for public health, why don't they ban artificial food coloring, artificial flavor, artificial sweetener, lab grown meat, chemical food preservative, and limit the amount of sugar can be used on any prepared drink?

I am not defending cigars/cigarettes because clearly not smokingsis better than smoking, but in my own family I saw more terrible, painful death caused by eating/living habits rather than smoking. I have 8 uncles and 6 aunties, 2 of them and my own mom never smoked a single stick ever and they died by cancer when we don't have cancer tendency on top of the family root, 5 of the surviving ones still chain smoking 2-3 packs of cigarette a day all still going strong and active, the eldest one is 75 yr old and still active and smiling everyday with tar black teeth, never seen him without a cigarette on his mouth.

All in all, smoking is bad but there are many other legal substances that are a lot more poisonous than smoking but the left ruling the world will never do anything about it, just because these legal poisonous substances sounded left.