Nice work if you can get it. When a Union controls a government.

[El Presidente]

Unions have an important place in society. 

Excess or overreach is a disease of both the left and the right of politics when they are in power too long. 

In our state of Queensland, a labour left government of 9 years where parliamentarian candidates are appointed by the Union construction factions has reached new heights of excess. There is a state election in October of this year. We pray for a correction. 

Our state public build projects are tens of billions over budget and years behind completion schedule. Here is why. 

The tale of the tape:

RDO = Rostered Day Off 

https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/qld-politics/best-job-in-qld-staggering-pay-perks-showered-on-union-workers/news-story/2715f02ae5e608320501b049c44b10fc

Best job in Qld? Staggering pay, perks showered on union workers

Double time when it rains, a month of RDOs each year, and an extra $1000 a week when working away from home are just some of the sweetheart conditions the state government has struck with the construction unions.

Double time when it rains, a full month of rostered days off each year, and an extra $1000 a week when working away from home are just some of the sweetheart conditions the state government has struck with the construction unions under its controversial Best Practice Industry Conditions policy.

 

Nice work if you can get it

• When it reaches 35C, or 29C and 75 per cent humidity, in South East Queensland, work should cease
• Any employee required to work in the rain will be paid double time
• Workers on commercial construction works site will be paid a scaled site allowance of up to $11 per hour for projects worth more than $1bn 
• A worker using their own mobile phone or can be paid an allowance of $100 per week
• A worker using an 8m ladder will be paid an additional amount per hour
• Workers employed at Mt Isa, except those at Mt Isa Mines, will be paid an additional amount
• There will be an Annual Picnic Day for metal and engineering workers, and anyone who has to work will be paid double time and a half

 

 

Those workers already in the sheds due to rain – or because it is raining at starting time, morning tea, or lunch time – “will not be required to go to work in a dry area or to be transferred to another site unless the rain stops, a covered walkway has been provided, or the sheds are under cover and the employees can get to the dry area without going through the rain”.

The policy locks in 5 per cent annual pay rises through to 2027 – with some electricians getting a base rate of just under $3000 per week this year, crane operators $2394, carpenters $1948, painters and glaziers $1855, and roof tilers $1908.

But those base wages – based on a standard 36-hr week – are before a multitude of penalties, overtime rates and allowances spelled out in great detail.

These include double-time pay for any hours worked over 36 in any week, and a 300 per cent loading for working any day between and inclusive of Christmas Day, New Year’s Day, Good Friday and Easter Monday.

 

There is also a “distant construction site allowance” of $1000 a week for working on a project located 50km or more from the address of the employer. A scaled “site allowance” also applies to commercial construction work sites, ranging from $3.50 per hour on $100m projects to $11 per hour on $1bn projects – almost $400 on a 36-hour week.

An RDO calendar also specifies the 26 days-off in addition to their four weeks of annual leave that must be given to all workers covered by the agreement.

[TacoSauce]

Everything I know about Australia, I know from watching clips of Utopia on YouTube:

 

[Marco_011t556]

LOL 1:27, it's a yacht!

[Fuzz AI]

Oh, don't get me started on Unions. Legalised organised crime. Everyone I know in the import/export biz absolutely hates unions.

[99call]

9 hours ago, El Presidente said:

Double time when it rains, a month of RDOs each year, and an extra $1000 a week when working away from home are just some of the sweetheart conditions the state government has struck with the construction unions.

I can't not respond to this, though I know nobody is interested. 

I think it's important to recognise the difference between (and I can't speak for Australia). 

A- Huge mega companies like Carillion in the UK, who act like complete crooks, time wasting, re-negotiating, paying themselves huge bonus's for abject failure. Sub-contracting to non-qualified tradies, using substandard products etc etc. 

B- A workers Union, fighting for safe, fair working conditions. 

To me in the Australia, it sounds as if A has some how infiltrated B.

That said, being paid extra for working away, or in the rain, so what! Why is it that so many people who work in lovely working conditions (in the warm, sat on a comfy chair by the computer) are so adamant that tradies need to live in depressing purgatory? I just don't get it. Depending on the specific job and working unusual hours tradies can be expected to die 10-15yrs earlier than others in sedentary non-exposed non- physical work. We have no issue all agreeing that some element of high pay with in the sports world is due to short careers, can't we pay tradies well, because they have short lives?

Someone I know was grumbling about paying a roofer £300 to replace some slates on the top of his house, I reminded him that he gets paid £2000 for filling in single page forms that take him 25mins, whilst he enjoys a flat white. I also asked him if he would simply stand on his roof for £300 without a harness, and he said no. 

I have recently worked on a massive job for a billionaire. The lead company were running the job like a mafia enterprise. Purposefully f-ing up jobs so they had to be done again, stealing from site, asking for bonuses, putting on costs on stuff they had nothing to do with, bringing in people onto the job, that had made up roles. They were a huge firm, and went 3yrs over the deadline, and the client was taken advantage of from day one. 

In contrast all the specialist contractors that were actually carrying out the work, were operating to exact deadlines, budgets, standards etc. There is a huge amount of what amounts to organised crime that goes on in the construction industry, but it's very rarely the person actually doing the work. 

Again being in the industry, work can be tough, unpleasant, physical, isolated and stressful, and most important incredibly dangerous. One can only imagine what additional bonuses bankers would require if they were all handed waterproofs (that were not actually waterproof) and expected to perform with the sprinklers going all day long. 

In summary, I understand your frustrations, that you feel as if the needle has tipped to far the wrong way. But I would suggest, looking at something like HS2 in the UK, major firms look as projects like this as opportunity to commit daylight robbery, and they do. We need to divide what portion we believe is responsible to corporate crime, and what portion is responsible for a tradie doing the work, having decent working conditions. 

I'm all behind tradies being payed very well, having the right kit, being given adequate rest, having the right tools, having the right safety regulations, getting paid or extra risk or unpleasant factors.       

[El Presidente]

I can't comment on the UK. 

The problem in QLD (our state) is that they Unions are in effect stealing tax payers money because it is taxpayers who fund these government projects. 

You need to be here to understand the furore and it is not from business. It is from teachers, firemen, nurses, paramedics who wonder why is it that the CFMEU (Construction, Forestry and Maritime Employees Union) have such conditions. The answer is that they are the union that put our Premier (leader Miles) in Government.....whose government also signed off on the conditions.  

Just to clarify. It doesn't actually have to rain. It only requires a weather forecast (showers is considered rain). Same goes for heat. 

Great mate Greg (who Fuzz and the Aussie lads know) runs a Sparkie company with 200 employees working on Govt projects under this award. As at 1 March this year, the number of days they had physically worked in 2024.........4 days. The cross river rail project he is working on is 2 years into a 30 month contract (completion) but only at 18% completion. It is insane. 

Summer is hot here and it is humid. We had a particularly humid summer. 29 degrees and 75% humidity is normal. What a rort. The reality is taking into account wet and hot weather in this state (under these new conditions) + RDO,  the construction union worker would receive on average 100 days fully paid work excluding vacations and picnic day...for not turning up 

FFS, the person holding the Stop and Go sign is on $120K.....+ the above conditions for a 36hr week. They are on a "danger money"  rate 

They are stealing from the public purse. No different to Meta/Apple/Google who pay minimal to no taxes here albeit that is about to change. 

This is straight out Union mafia controlling a city/state and writing public cheques to benefit their mates. 

P.S.

Working away is if you live further than $50 km (30 miles) away from your job. That = $1000 a week 

[99call]

For me the key to a more streamlined, fair, value based system, is all about the tendering process. 

Some councils either through stupidity or corrupt factors within government, i.e. MP's who lobby for contracts.Will sign a 10yr management contract with a lead contractor, in some deranged notion it will save them money. This is just money for old rope. 

- Lead contractor, subcontracts to 

- Main contractor, subcontracts to 

- Large firm, subcontracts to

- Medium sized firm, subcontracts to

- Small firm, subcontracts to 

- Me...the person that actually does the job

This is bullshit, everyone gets a taste along the way for doing nothing, there is huge pressure put on what I can charge, and the pressure/responsibility is all on me,  even for stuff the chain buggers up. 

Much better is where there is a procurement portal, or tendering 'chest' that the council has signed up to. I am affectively tendering against all the huge companies that have got little chance of winning, because of all their on-costs. I win the contract, I can charge more, the council is actually paying less. I'm dealing directly with the council, and can cut out all the confusion, middle men delaying bullshit etc.

To my mind the problem is a breed of people in construction, who's only job is to find ways of juicing the client for more cash. 'Contract managers'. there seems to be armies of them on site, all roaming around doing nothing, having meetings about meetings

36 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

 This is straight out Union mafia controlling a city/state and writing public cheques to benefit their mates.

The number of days unworkable does sound insane. Like I've said about there needs to be a clear division between

- Unions and the workers

- Bullshit 'lead' contractor/ Management companies

- Councils

- Centralised government

They all need clear dividing lines. In order for the system to work in a non-corrupt manner. Again, key for me is the tendering process. 

[Li Bai]

37 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

I can't comment on the UK. 

The problem in QLD (our state) is that they Unions are in effect stealing tax payers money because it is taxpayers who fund these government projects. 

You need to be here to understand the furore and it is not from business. It is from teachers, firemen, nurses, paramedics who wonder why is it that the CFMEU (Construction, Forestry and Maritime Employees Union) have such conditions. The answer is that they are the union that put our Premier (leader Miles) in Government.....whose government also signed off on the conditions.  

Just to clarify. It doesn't actually have to rain. It only requires a weather forecast (showers is considered rain). Same goes for heat. 

Great mate Greg (who Fuzz and the Aussie lads know) runs a Sparkie company with 200 employees working on Govt projects under this award. As at 1 March this year, the number of days they had physically worked in 2024.........4 days. The cross river rail project he is working on is 2 years into a 30 month contract (completion) but only at 18% completion. It is insane. 

Summer is hot here and it is humid. We had a particularly humid summer. 29 degrees and 75% humidity is normal. What a rort. The reality is taking into account wet and hot weather in this state (under these new conditions) + RDO,  the construction union worker would receive on average 100 days fully paid work excluding vacations and picnic day...for not turning up

FFS, the person holding the Stop and Go sign is on $120K.....+ the above conditions for a 36hr week. They are on a "danger money"  rate

They are stealing from the public purse. No different to Meta/Apple/Google who pay minimal to no taxes here albeit that is about to change. 

This is straight out Union mafia controlling a city/state and writing public cheques to benefit their mates. 

P.S.

Working away is if you live further than $50 km (30 miles) away from your job. That = $1000 a week

This fairly looks like what we go through in France with the SNCF (state-owned railway company) and it's been going on for decades...Good luck for those who intend to come to Paris this summer 😅😅

[99call]

16 minutes ago, Li Bai said:

This fairly looks like what we go through in France with the SNCF (state-owned railway company) and it's been going on for decades...Good luck for those who intend to come to Paris this summer 😅😅

Careful what you wish for. Privatised rail in the UK, is like something out of a Dicken's novel. Truly embarrassing. 

[El Presidente]

Stefan, we appear to be a little more streamlined than your situation.

The problem here is that the CFMEU has worked itself into a position that it intimidates all construction companies. 

You can't win a tender over $100m without CFMEU involvement. That means their conditions and a fully unionised site. 

They now wish to reduce that to $50m which takes them into the realm of upper medium residential/commercial developments. 

In terms of sqm costs, it moves the build needle from $12000 m2 to $15000 m2 +. Extended timelines are on top of that. 

David was completing a 50M project in West End. The deck boys know him well. It was a voluntary unionised site. Unions blocked the cranes from accessing site for 5 weeks. Went to court and the CFMEU were told to stand down. They turned up next day dressed as greens. Developer eventually rolled over. It is now a uniionised site. 

The minister defending the Union (article below) was put in his job by the CFMEU. 

Mafia. 

 

https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/protest-by-intimidating-masked-men-delays-west-end-housing-project/news-story/ee7f3738baf74c34eccfa3af5d7148e5

[Li Bai]

13 minutes ago, 99call said:

Careful what you wish for. Privatised rail in the UK, is like something out of a Dicken's novel. Truly embarrassing. 

Look it up and you'll see things could hardly be worse here at this point.

[99call]

21 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

The minister defending the Union (article below) was put in his job by the CFMEU. 

mafia. 

As I said from the start, it sounds as if you have some sort of toxic hybrid situation. i.e. Lead contractor- Union-Government all acting hand in glove, like one enterprise. 

Again, if there could be more controls on how tenders made, then mega companies wouldn't form in the first place. If mega companies don't form, then them being hand in glove with unions wouldn't be such an issue. Things can't be allowed to become so big society can't afford for them to fail.  whether that be Banks, Unions or whatever. 

These mega institutions always offer efficiency, and they always deliver theft. 

 

 

[Ken Gargett]

On 4/10/2024 at 11:14 AM, TacoSauce said:

Everything I know about Australia, I know from watching clips of Utopia on YouTube:

i have told rob to watch this many times. it is brilliant. 

[benfica_77]

Watch videos of this site inspector in Australia. In this one he's in Melbourne.

This one, he's in QLD.

[benfica_77]

In Canada, the capital Ottawa has main federal government buildings and it's a well known fact that the mob from Montreal always get the contracts for those building repairs and nothing gets done and always over budget. Not sure who is more corrupt...the gov or the mob lol.

[MrBirdman]

Unions are good. But, like any special interest, if the levers of power are unaccountably surrendered to them, they will eventually start feathering their own nests at the public's expense. Huge supporter of the renewed growth in unions here, but also keenly aware of how the building trades have used their political war chest to control politics in this state (often for the better, sometimes for the worse). No different than other interest groups with money, but it just bothers me more because I actually support them and don't want them hurting public perception. I'm all for plumbers making six figures (which is where they start in Philly, if you can get an apprenticeship first). 

The situation Rob describes is pretty bad. That said, I don't see it as any different than other interests that drain public money. I think that's less of an issue generally in Europe and Australia than it is here. In the US we subsidize hedge fund managers and corporate jets through the tax code. Why? The beneficiaries have power. There's literally no other reason. That's f-ed up too.

I hope Oz can sort this out - we're pretty much hopeless here! 

[Squarehead]

I never liked unions but I'm not against being organized if done properly. I was a member of the Hoisting and Engineering union here in Ontario, Canada in the 70s and they have done f*** all for me except take my membership dues. 

[LLC]

In Canada, the capital Ottawa has main federal government buildings and it's a well known fact that the mob from Montreal always get the contracts for those building repairs and nothing gets done and always over budget. Not sure who is more corrupt...the gov or the mob lol.

Government is the same as the mob, just they have a bit more control over the police. In Canada they are into extortion (taxes), alcohol, drugs and gambling. The only thing missing is prostitution which they will figure out because they’ll need to protect the kids. Don’t even get me started on unions.


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