The 2023 Rugby World Cup

[Ken Gargett]

may i suggest that any wallaby fans planning on making the trip, save their money. or go to France and have fun, just avoid the rugby. for fans of other nations expecting the wallabies to contend, please note that rugby in Australia is now dead. the wallabies you once knew, possibly even respected or feared, no longer exist. let's leave aside all the administrative farces of the last decade or two (and they are endless), the coaching carousel, the stupidity of trying to pay ridiculous money for league players and so on. 

the talk this morning - after we got soundly done by Argentina - is all about what changes the toxic hobbit could make. they could go with anyone. Won’t make a blind bit of difference. The wallaby goose is well and truly cooked.

We were at home to Argentina, once a team that it was near inconceivable that we could lose to them. The only reason everyone is moaning about how sad to lose a close one at the death is that we got a very fortunate intercept to put us ahead. We did not deserve to be there.

I hate being the Debbie Downer but, this year we have been thrashed by the South African seconds, beaten at home by Argentina and next up are the All Blacks, who beat the South African Firsts.

If I have this correct, in our last ten tests, we have lost 8. The two we won were Scotland by one point and Wales by five points. The 8 losses include nations like Italy and last night.

Our next two tests are the All Blacks and a pre-world cup trial v France. Anyone putting their house on us winning any of those? So, every chance we’ll head into the world cup with 11 losses in our last 13 tests.

Scalp your tickets now. Avoid the rush!

and in case all that was not bad enough, the wallaby seconds were thumped by tonga yesterday. yes, tonga. population about 125 and almost any decent player they have either leaves to play for NZ or us. 

 

When I heard, I must say my first reaction was, well is anyone really surprised?

I am old enough, just, to remember Tonga beating the wallabies – early 70s I think. 73? Mark Loane’s first test. Came in as a 17 or 18 year old. Needless to say, the toe rag journos from the south declared that a 17 year old was at fault and should never play again. I have southern mates who still think Loane was rubbish because of that one game (but they also think ella walks on water). That was always seen as Australia’s absolute nadir. Until the last decade. what the wallabies would give for a Mark Loane today!! hell, even an ella would be welcome. 

From the reports v Tonga, wilson was good (although that hardly matters as it has been made very clear he is not in consideration - apparently topping stats in super rugby for carries, metres, effort, tackles, who knows what else, mean nothing), someone called fines? Not many others. Apparently and here's a shocker, foley and Gordon awful (and yet an article in the southern press this morning called for the door to be opened for foley to play in the world cup - beyond belief). Swinton got his regular card. Why would you pick him for anything? You know you will get a max of 70 minutes with 15 men on the field, often less. I have pot plants that he makes look like rocket scientists. you can bet he'll be part of the world cup squad though. 

Serious question – is there a single player whom anyone could say is a dead set certainty for his position in the wallabies starting xv for the world cup? Koribete? Probably nic white (but that is only because there is simply no viable alternative). Slipper (and that will hardly strike fear into anyone’s hearts and is probably more because we have injuries)? i can't think of anyone else you'd say is a cert. 

Go back to 91 or 99 or even 95, 99, 03, 07 and perhaps also more recent cups. 91 and 99, we pretty much had the team sorted before we arrived. The others, perhaps a couple of spots, but not many. This one? 13, 14 spots up for grabs.

Also, I think it was dwyer or macqueen who said that to win the world cup, you needed to have at least five players who would be in a world 15. Do we have a single player who would make a world fifteen seconds? Very few. perhaps none. 

We are a trainwreck. i'd love to think someone will be able to shove this in my face come the end of the tournament when i am proved wrong but good luck with that. 

[El Presidente]

.....I thought you stopped following rugby 

They are a dumb football team produced by the dumbest rugby system in the world. 

It has nothing to do with who the national coach is. The base pathways and end product is rubbish.

Problem is we still hark back to a time 30 years ago. Todays AllBlacks would put 50 on the world cup winning wallabies. 

The rest of the world is now 20 years ahead of us. 

Well done to the Pumas and Cheika. I hope the penny has dropped for those who were throwinng rocks at Cheika  from the cheap seats when wallaby coach.

Wallabies coah = poisoned chalice. 

[Ken Gargett]

7 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

.....I thought you stopped following rugby 

They are a dumb football team produced by the dumbest rugby system in the world. 

It has nothing to do with who the national coach is. The base pathways and end product is rubbish.

Problem is we still hark back to a time 30 years ago. Todays AllBlacks would put 50 on the world cup winning wallabies. 

The rest of the world is now 20 years ahead of us. 

Well done to the Pumas and Cheika. I hope the penny has dropped for those who were throwinng rocks at Cheika  from the cheap seats when wallaby coach.

Wallabies coah = poisoned chalice. 

you will note that for once, i did not blame the coach. made the point that it doesn't matter who is playing for us. Cheika did make plenty of mistakes, though, when wallaby coach. 

seems that the winning percentage for the wallabies has dropped with every coach since link. 

[Chas.Alpha]

I have no idea what just happened here, but here in this house we've become Wallaby fans!!!🦘 

[JohnS]

I agree, the system we have in Australia is not sufficient to maintain a competitive team. We tried to streamline it a few years ago by removing Western Force, but it didn't quite work out. Why the Melbourne Rebels team exists is also a mystery to me. Things worked fine when there was just the Queensland Rebels and New South Wales Waratahs. If you were picked to play for the Wallabies in those days then your selection meant something. These days, not so much.

I agree Ken...no need to expect too much from the upcoming 2023 Rugby Union World Cup in France.

[99call]

Regardless of the club system, in many ways if you don't properly invest in rugby within the school system,  your foundations are rotten from the get go. 

Would love to see France win this year, and when they click they are fantastic to watch.  Ireland is a true beacon of what you can achieve when you have well paid "rugby masters' as I believe they were once called in Wales. i.e. shit hot rugby PE/rugby school coaches.    When you see the level of investment in NZ and Ireland, in schools grade rugby, you realise their young lads coming through, are just light years ahead of the competition.    Love the fact one of the few remaining old school....schools in Wales, managed to turn out Sam Warburton (Lions Captain) Garath Bale (Five Champions league titles), and Geraint Thomas (Tour de France winner).......in one school year. ....thats some PE Dept!!!.

I can easily see Fiji beating both Wales and Aussie this year, we are going to be fighting for second spot. 

 

[Ken Gargett]

2 hours ago, 99call said:

Regardless of the club system, in many ways if you don't properly invest in rugby within the school system,  your foundations are rotten from the get go. 

Would love to see France win this year, and when they click they are fantastic to watch.  Ireland is a true beacon of what you can achieve when you have well paid "rugby masters' as I believe they were once called in Wales. i.e. shit hot rugby PE/rugby school coaches.    When you see the level of investment in NZ and Ireland, in schools grade rugby, you realise their young lads coming through, are just light years ahead of the competition.    Love the fact one of the few remaining old school....schools in Wales, managed to turn out Sam Warburton (Lions Captain) Garath Bale (Five Champions league titles), and Geraint Thomas (Tour de France winner).......in one school year. ....thats some PE Dept!!!.

I can easily see Fiji beating both Wales and Aussie this year, we are going to be fighting for second spot. 

 

out of interest, does that school do sporting scholarships? you can point to that sort of thing at plenty of local schools but these days, it is because they offer the scholarships when the kids have established themselves as exciting prospects. 

[Ken Gargett]

20 hours ago, JohnS said:

I agree, the system we have in Australia is not sufficient to maintain a competitive team. We tried to streamline it a few years ago by removing Western Force, but it didn't quite work out. Why the Melbourne Rebels team exists is also a mystery to me. Things worked fine when there was just the Queensland Rebels and New South Wales Waratahs. If you were picked to play for the Wallabies in those days then your selection meant something. These days, not so much.

I agree Ken...no need to expect too much from the upcoming 2023 Rugby Union World Cup in France.

seriously john? how sharper than the serpent's tooth..

the queensland rebels?????? that is just cruel. 

[99call]

3 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

out of interest, does that school do sporting scholarships? you can point to that sort of thing at plenty of local schools but these days, it is because they offer the scholarships when the kids have established themselves as exciting prospects. 

no, I don't think it was scholarships, I think it's just the last of a dying breed of schools in Wales.  I think historically in Wales the recruitment of the school Rugby Master would be a much more painstaking interview process than the Headmaster themself. 

They are getting it right in Ireland, because an established pathway is visible for kids and their families. I.e. Blackrock college = Leinster = Ireland.   Kids are seeing pictures on walls in their schools of Ireland national squad alumni that have won away tours in NZ, it's a tangible dream for them, it's a fire in their belly,  it makes the conveyor belt keep on coming.    Then contrast that with Wales. zero money is put into hiring talent into the schools, the clubs are a mess, a golden era has come to an end for the National side, whereby god knows how the players put in the performances they did, it was just a freak wave, in terms of that group of players.   I have resigned myself to the fact it's going to be a very depressing era on the horizon for Welsh Rugby

Much like America with AF, in NZ and Ireland with Union, there seems to be talent scouting, and support from a very young age, whereby excellence in a given sport is not a happy coincidence, it's the core focus. 

 

[JohnS]

3 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

seriously john? how sharper than the serpent's tooth..

the queensland rebels?????? that is just cruel. 

I blame autocorrect...plus, it was 5 am in the morning at the time of posting. 😁

In a funny way, it emphasises my point. By having native QLD Reds and NSW Waratahs players playing for the Melbourne Rebels, ACT Brumbies and Western Force, we're just diluting the already very small talent pool. Just streamline it I say. Get back to the very basics, make it mean something to play for the Reds or Waratahs. Then playing for the Wallabies means so much more.

[JohnS]

I can't believe this weekend's Quarter-Finals results. I don't think there was ever a better chance for Wales, France and Ireland to proceed to the semi-finals.

Now we are left with New Zealand, England and South Africa. Go Argentina?

[99call]

Heartbroken that Wales effectively just stopped playing in the second half. Then the players heads went on the back of that terrible refereeing decision, and proceeded to play into Argentina's mayhem. The reality is however is they were not good enough to proceed and though they should have beaten Argentina and could have beaten England. They had no chance against NZ Or SA. So what's the point? It's been a great tournament (apart from England progressing). It's been great to see there's such completion across the board.

[Ken Gargett]

7 hours ago, JohnS said:

I can't believe this weekend's Quarter-Finals results. I don't think there was ever a better chance for Wales, France and Ireland to proceed to the semi-finals.

Now we are left with New Zealand, England and South Africa. Go Argentina?

didn't see wales v argentina but they are not a bad side. i wonder if a degree of wales playing their big game against us and then a let down. cant think why. 

England could easily have stumbled. fiji had chances. extraordinary that England the last standing northern team. you could have got huge odds to that. 

the other two games, absolute classics. would have preferred wins by Ireland and France but great efforts by SA and NZ. not sure how France managed to lose - they looked so slick, so good. but SA just kept at them and kept in it. did little things well. they will be hard to beat. NZ repelling 37 phases at the very end of the game v Ireland was something i have never seen. hard to fault that. 

hard to imagine it won't be a SA v NZ final. 

 

10 minutes ago, 99call said:

Heartbroken that Wales affectively just stopped playing in the second half. Then the players heads went on the back of that terrible reffing decision, and proceeded to play into Argentina's mayhem.    The reality is however is they were not good enough to proceed and though they should have beaten Argentina and could have beaten England. They had no chance against NZ Or SA. So what's the point.   It's been a great tournament (apart from England progressing). It's been great to see there's such completion across the board

if there is no point then the 2nd tier sides need not even be part of it. upsets happen. sides get better by playing the better sides. we all knew that the wallabies had bugger all chance if we squeaked through into the quarters. 

take cheika away from all the political crap and biases that infect aussie rugby and the bloke has shown he can coach. he just got tied up in all the mess here. 

as for what is the point, ask the afghan cricketers what is the point today. suspect that they may not be on the same page as yourself. 

at the moment, it seems Australia and england are in a race to the bottom of world sport. 

[99call]

On 10/16/2023 at 3:24 PM, Ken Gargett said:

if there is no point then the 2nd tier sides need not even be part of it. upsets happen. sides get better by playing the better sides. we all knew that the wallabies had bugger all chance if we squeaked through into the quarters. 

take cheika away from all the political crap and biases that infect aussie rugby and the bloke has shown he can coach. he just got tied up in all the mess here. 

as for what is the point, ask the afghan cricketers what is the point today. suspect that they may not be on the same page as yourself. 

at the moment, it seems Australia and england are in a race to the bottom of world sport. 

Sorry Ken, but you misunderstand my core position, and that's understandable, as I did not properly lay it out. 

In 2011 when Sam Warburton spear tackled a French winger into the turf, and got sent off, I genuinely felt as if Wales had a once in a generation team, that could go all the way. I really feel as if that was their golden chance... but not to be.  

In this world cup, would I still be punching the air if they some how progressed??.....of course, and would if have been a useful experience for players that just weren't good enough?  Yes! definitely. That said, in order for them to progress, I genuinely felt as if it would be on the basis the opposition had impossibly poor performances. Much like how Australia played against Wales. I'm the kind of supporter that really struggles to gain much joy from seeing the other side just no turn up, and the victories resulting, feeling hollow and meaningless. So when I say "what's the point". I'm talking about for me selfishly as a fan, not what it would mean for the team etc. 

A bit depressing to see the AB's and SA back at the top table. I really hope increasing quality of sides like Fiji, Japan, Georgia, Scotland etc continue to have the potency as potential 'giant killers'  it's been great for the tournament. Hopefully in 4yrs time it will be even more competitive, lots of shocks, and drama.