Popular Post 99call Posted June 10, 2023 Popular Post Posted June 10, 2023 This is a thing of pure genius 2 3 8
Ken Gargett Posted June 10, 2023 Posted June 10, 2023 sad thing is they'll be able to do it all over again in a few years with a completely different cast, from either side. the one thing that never changes.... 1
99call Posted June 11, 2023 Author Posted June 11, 2023 8 hours ago, Ken Gargett said: sad thing is they'll be able to do it all over again in a few years with a completely different cast, from either side. the one thing that never changes.... I think there is many accusations that somebody could level at the previous labour government, and I am critical of them myself. The war, some wasteful council spending etc, but at least with Labour you actually got a product, actual public services, some degree of care and evolution of public infrastructure, a vision, a direction There are lots of right leaning people in the UK now realising their goose is cooked, and have seamlessly switched from "The Tories are not corrupt!" to "Well, we all know....ALL politicians are corrupt". it's all a bit too convenient. I think 'bothsidesing' may be relevant in other parts of the world, but it just doesn't wash at the moment in the UK. There a singular problem here, it's not Politicians........it's just Tories I thought I hated people like Michael Hesseltine and Ken Clark as a kid, but looking at this current shower, I can at least respect some tories of the past, genuinely had an actual take on society, and how they thought it would function best. They did possess moral fibre.....slightly confused and distorted moral fibre (in my opinion).....but they had some non the less. I know you're not convinced by Starmer (or any politician), but I feel as if he is the man for the moment. If you think about how far he has moved the Labour party on since Corbyn, he has already achieved a hard nosed herculean effort. I actually find it very reassuring that he's preparing people for how hard the next 10 years are going to be, he's not promising a rose garden, he's communicating it's going to be a long hard road back to prosperity. Much like the mountain Clem Attlee had to face, I think he's in a similar situation. 3
Ken Gargett Posted June 11, 2023 Posted June 11, 2023 14 hours ago, 99call said: I think there is many accusations that somebody could level at the previous labour government, and I am critical of them myself. The war, some wasteful council spending etc, but at least with Labour you actually got a product, actual public services, some degree of care and evolution of public infrastructure, a vision, a direction There are lots of right leaning people in the UK now realising their goose is cooked, and have seamlessly switched from "The Tories are not corrupt!" to "Well, we all know....ALL politicians are corrupt". it's all a bit too convenient. I think 'bothsidesing' may be relevant in other parts of the world, but it just doesn't wash at the moment in the UK. There a singular problem here, it's not Politicians........it's just Tories I thought I hated people like Michael Hesseltine and Ken Clark as a kid, but looking at this current shower, I can at least respect some tories of the past, genuinely had an actual take on society, and how they thought it would function best. They did possess moral fibre.....slightly confused and distorted moral fibre (in my opinion).....but they had some non the less. I know you're not convinced by Starmer (or any politician), but I feel as if he is the man for the moment. If you think about how far he has moved the Labour party on since Corbyn, he has already achieved a hard nosed herculean effort. I actually find it very reassuring that he's preparing people for how hard the next 10 years are going to be, he's not promising a rose garden, he's communicating it's going to be a long hard road back to prosperity. Much like the mountain Clem Attlee had to face, I think he's in a similar situation. possibly it does not apply at the moment, but it will. surely history has taught us that. the rorts may be different but they are inevitable. human nature. without wanting to start a big argument, if you talk about getting a product (i'm not saying one you might like), then maggie T has been the most successful PM in living history. but then she had the advantage of following along from the black hole Wilson left. hard not to do better. starmer has a chance to be well regarded for much the same reason. hard not to do better than the current headless chooks. what you say starmer is saying now sounds more like he believes he will win (not on his own there) and is already laying the basis for excuses. again, human nature. atlee (with whom i share a birthday - atlee, Tolkien, mel Gibson, greta T and me) at least had the excuse of having to come in after the devastation of the War, though was following a PM who i think was still hugely respected for what he had done - just that people desperately needed a change and Churchill was a never-ending reminder of the War. no one has any respect for the current mob. i would suggest that starmer is in an infinitely better position than atlee was.
99call Posted June 12, 2023 Author Posted June 12, 2023 7 hours ago, Ken Gargett said: possibly it does not apply at the moment, but it will. surely history has taught us that. the rorts may be different but they are inevitable. human nature. without wanting to start a big argument, if you talk about getting a product (i'm not saying one you might like), then maggie T has been the most successful PM in living history. but then she had the advantage of following along from the black hole Wilson left. hard not to do better. starmer has a chance to be well regarded for much the same reason. hard not to do better than the current headless chooks. what you say starmer is saying now sounds more like he believes he will win (not on his own there) and is already laying the basis for excuses. again, human nature. atlee (with whom i share a birthday - atlee, Tolkien, mel Gibson, greta T and me) at least had the excuse of having to come in after the devastation of the War, though was following a PM who i think was still hugely respected for what he had done - just that people desperately needed a change and Churchill was a never-ending reminder of the War. no one has any respect for the current mob. i would suggest that starmer is in an infinitely better position than atlee was. Afternoon Ken, I agree that Thatcher was hugely effective, hard working and got a huge amount done... the problem is, is that if you were poor, what she got done was largely a negative. If 'trickle down' economics worked, then maybe we would actually be in agreement, but it doesn't. I totally get why someone who lives in Surrey may think Thatcher was the bee's knees, but what use is that then the majority of the rest of the country feel as if she had a terribly negative affect on their lives? I hear what you are saying with regards to the post war situation being far more over-facing, and I totally agree with that in one respect, i.e. scale of the problem. But Brexit is an almighty bear trap the UK has placed its foot into. It symbolises and punctuates the end of the UK as a great empire. for those who voted for it (and the were many reasons) I would suggest the main reason was some sort of ill conceived retrospective, as sad desire to wrap themselves up in the Union Jack and comfort themselves instead of looking forward and realising we are no longer Britania who rules the waves. What Starmer has to achieve, is to remove this bear trap, with nobody being able to see that he's doing it. In order to fix the UK, Starmer has the following on his plate - ASAP begin the process of closer economic ties with the EU, in whatever form that takes - Nationalise water, power, railways - Commandeer all new privately owned medical facilities into the NHS - Give Scotland yard the money it needs to address the fact that London has become the worlds centre for money laundering - Investigate, find and retrieve the billions stolen during the PPE Scandal - Re-build relations with Scotland and Wales - Move the seat of power out of Westminster to York - Dissolve the House of Lords - Overhaul the social care system for the elderly - Scrap HS2, and concentrate on a modern train service that links up Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds, Sheffield, York, Hull and Newcastle i.e. The Northern Powerhouse project from George Osborne that was just a tory con job - Ramp up the green Island opportunities the UK has with stuff like Off-shore wind, tidal lagoons, nuclear etc In short he has a huge programme of work in order to drag the UK, into a fair, efficient, modern, forward thinking, prosperous country. and not what it is today a divided, poor, backward looking, corrupt, Londoncentric one
Popular Post Ryan Posted June 12, 2023 Popular Post Posted June 12, 2023 The origin of trickle down economics, 1348. The image has been colorized. 1 6
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