Cohiba Lancero VIP Boxes

[El Presidente]

I had an email overnight regarding Cohiba Lancero VIP boxes. There are plenty of fakes of these in the market but I did find an excellent old FOH thread that illuminates the situation somewhat.  Excellent read 

 

 

 

[dealsrme]

Very cool read. Never seen these before and hadn’t seen the original thread.

[NSXCIGAR]

21 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

There are plenty of fakes of these in the market

I think most of the fakes are genuine VIP boxes being peddled as vintage. Many people don't know these VIP retro boxes exist. 

CCW actually has them listed as special production:

https://www.cubancigarwebsite.com/cigar/cohiba/vip-gifts

[ATGroom]

47 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

I think most of the fakes are genuine VIP boxes being peddled as vintage.

Maybe the case that there are refill fakes around - have never seen a confirmed one, although would be difficult to say either way with those.

What I have seen is a large number of low quality fakes of these boxes with poor quality printing. I think they were produced in the 70s or 80s before the public release of Cohiba. Fakers in those days weren't as sophisticated as the ones today.

Have also seen a Coronas Especiales box with this design from the 90s. 

[NSXCIGAR]

5 minutes ago, ATGroom said:

Maybe the case that there are refill fakes around - have never seen a confirmed one, although would be difficult to say either way with those.

I had thought I had seen a few but the issue would be that the originals would have the Cubatabaco stamp and obviously new ones would be HSA and presumably with current codes. 

[ATGroom]

2 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

I had thought I had seen a few but the issue would be that the originals would have the Cubatabaco stamp and obviously new ones would be HSA and presumably with current codes. 

I have seen boxes of these without HSA or Cubatabaco stamps - just factory and date on a blank bottom. I had heard that this is because they are produced by Tabacuba directly for the Cuban government, not HSA.

One pictured in the thread Rob links would appear to disagree with that, so maybe they started stamping them at some point, or there are some that HSA orders for their VIPs that have stamps and some that the government orders that don't or who knows. The exact story behind these boxes is very murky.

[NSXCIGAR]

1 hour ago, ATGroom said:

I have seen boxes of these without HSA or Cubatabaco stamps - just factory and date on a blank bottom.

Interesting. So all you'd need is to burn the old Cubatabaco stamp into the blank bottom and voila, you've got a $5,000 vintage box.

I've just seen some "early 1980s" boxes that look to be in remarkable condition. The old bands and warranty seal are very easy to fake and the cello obscures the cigars even more. I just always assumed boxes like that were very likely refilled VIP boxes. 

I also don't know why they ever wouldn't have been stamped. The factories are Tabacuba. The question is at what point do the cigars transition from Tabacuba to HSA? As far as I'm aware nothing is HSA's until it gets to the warehouse and gets a seal.

[BrightonCorgi]

4 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Interesting. So all you'd need is to burn the old Cubatabaco stamp into the blank bottom and voila, you've got a $5,000 vintage box.

I've just seen some "early 1980s" boxes that look to be in remarkable condition. The old bands and warranty seal are very easy to fake and the cello obscures the cigars even more. I just always assumed boxes like that were very likely refilled VIP boxes.

The cello staining from decades of aging may not be so easy to fake.

[99call]

10 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

I think most of the fakes are genuine VIP boxes being peddled as vintage

There are lots and lots of these fake boxes in Spain.  I think someone did a big run in the 80s/90's.   Invariably the boxes will have black ink on the bottom instead of brands

[Slayer]

If they filled them with non-diplomatic lanceros, the majority wouldn't be able to tell the difference as they'd be damn good smokes anyway (but if I had a box, I probably wouldn't touch them for a long time either)

[NSXCIGAR]

9 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

The cello staining from decades of aging may not be so easy to fake.

Yes, but it's hard to see it until it's removed. 

[Hoepssa]

Do they still produce them with habanos code, or just government stamp on it?

[NSXCIGAR]

1 hour ago, Hoepssa said:

Do they still produce them with habanos code, or just government stamp on it?

Not sure what you mean by "Habanos Code" as all stamps are technically Tabacuba including factory and date. Even the "Habanos" corner sticker is applied in the factory by Tabacuba. The only thing truly HSA is the warranty seal applied at the HSA warehouse. 

What I think you may be asking is if the boxes have the factory & date code stamp. The answer is these boxes have been seen with all proper stamping (box stamp, date & factory stamp) and also with no stamping of any kind, so inconclusive as to what they are consistently doing with these.

[NSXCIGAR]

All bad: from 10 minutes ago. Seized in Cuban customs outgoing. Best pic I could sneak in there. Not mine, thank goodness. 

I don't know how anyone connected enough to get these could think they could get 9 boxes out that ostensibly have no facturas. 

Perhaps of note the one box facing forward appears to have only the transit seal.

I also saw a ton of custom rolls being seized. I mean there was torn up Granma pages all over the floor. I mean like a foot tall pile. They were just tossing the cigars into bins. I guess people are trying to bring out hundreds of sticks in their bags. Not too smart.

Getting cigars out of Cuba can sometimes be harder than getting them into the US! 

[PuroDiario]

@El Presidente interesting. I had sent you a PM few months back re someone selling these in the US which was “interesting”

[El Presidente]

On 6/4/2023 at 5:17 AM, NSXCIGAR said:

All bad: from 10 minutes ago. Seized in Cuban customs outgoing. Best pic I could sneak in there. Not mine, thank goodness. 

I don't know how anyone connected enough to get these could think they could get 9 boxes out that ostensibly have no facturas. 

Perhaps of note the one box facing forward appears to have only the transit seal.

I also saw a ton of custom rolls being seized. I mean there was torn up Granma pages all over the floor. I mean like a foot tall pile. They were just tossing the cigars into bins. I guess people are trying to bring out hundreds of sticks in their bags. Not too smart.

Getting cigars out of Cuba can sometimes be harder than getting them into the US! 

 

Cuba has always been on the "dodgy"

.......but it has never been "dodgier" than today. 

[NSXCIGAR]

8 hours ago, El Presidente said:

Cuba has always been on the "dodgy"

.......but it has never been "dodgier" than today. 

After this last trip I can confirm that there is very little that can't be "worked" with a few connections and cash. People are desperate and are almost trying to find people who can be beneficiaries of their "access".

For that reason many of these "connected" Cubans are doing better than they ever did which is a great thing. One of my contacts is remodeling his house, adding a cigar room and even thinking of putting a pool in! 

[El Presidente]

4 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

For that reason many of these "connected" Cubans are doing better than they ever did which is a great thing. One of my contacts is remodeling his house, adding a cigar room and even thinking of putting a pool in! 

Until they get out or it all comes crashing down. There is a litany of fallen stars in the Cuba domeciled cigar world. 

Staying below the radar is the key. I would pile the cash and cancel the pool 

[FVicente]

Interesting topic, someone sent me here in response to a question I’ve put on Facebook. 
 

A friend of mine gifted me these very unusual cohibas. I’ve read this thread and learned about diplomatic/VIP boxes but some guy on Facebook is calling my box and all of the boxes shown here fakes because Habanos S.A., the company on the seal and stamp, did not exist in the 70s. 
 

Also, mine are very small and “Cohibitas” can be read on the box. Do any of you know such a thing? Are these fake?

 

Thank you very much for any information!

 

[ATGroom]

1 hour ago, FVicente said:

A friend of mine gifted me these very unusual cohibas. I’ve read this thread and learned about diplomatic/VIP boxes but some guy on Facebook is calling my box and all of the boxes shown here fakes because Habanos S.A., the company on the seal and stamp, did not exist in the 70s. 

Also, mine are very small and “Cohibitas” can be read on the box. Do any of you know such a thing? Are these fake?

They are fake.

1. The date code doesn't make sense, but it's close to Partagas Factory 1997. Seems odd that Diplomatic Cohiba would be made at Partagas, but at least the 97 accounts for the Habanos stamps.

2. The main thing is the printing is very poor quality all over. Real boxes look much better than this. See those at the start of the thread. This is the level of the very common low quality fakes you see frequently on the Spanish Collector website and other places. 'Cuba being Cuba' would not account for this, it is clearly made from a different design source and with different equipment than genuine boxes.

3. Cohibitas aren't a thing, at least not something that is known to the general public. Presumably there are some Panetelas out there with this packaging, although have never seen them personally.

 

[FVicente]

Thank you, sir! Very informative 👍🏼