Are we in/at the end of the second golden age of cuban cigars?

[99call]

Sounds insane right?

But hear me out.  Something struck me the other day.  I was looking through an old Cuban cigar catalogue, and came across a cigar called the "Romeo Y Julieta Hamburgos".   There was me thinking "Herfing", "Ammunition" and the like were the most mind numbingly dumb cigar names out there.  It got me thinking.......... I innately place a great deal of prestige on the past of cuban cigars,  I love heritage, classy packaging, craftsmanship. I hate showiness, brashness,  but the reality is both of these styles exist now, and also in the 1950s 60s.   You could quite easily argue that the Cinco Bocas are tacky as all hell etc. 

Over the last 10 to 20 years we have been pummelled with an avalanche of Limited Editions, Regionals, some cigars that seemed to never happen, late released etc.   Now there has been lots thats been wrong with it (as Rob can attest).  but when we look through the old catalogues and we see the relics of the 1950's 60s,  are there not lots of similarities?    There have been lots of face plants in regionals, but there have also been some supreme successes. 

We are in the middle of it all now, but in 50 years time I think theres a chance enthusiasts will go insane if they get their hands on a box of Hoyo Escogidos, or Cohiba Novedosos,  those anomilly released that never seemed to get off the ground. 

We are all pissed off, distributers and people in the industry especially (and rightly so), but I'd be interested to hear what people think,  we paint today as a hopeless bloody nightmare,  but are we in fact coming to the end of the 2nd golden age of Cuban Cigars.      2003 - 2020????

[Islandboy]

I see what you’re saying about history basically repeating itself, with how certain fairly recent releases that have not exactly been well received and are scoffed at will likely become sought after gems. For me personally, this is most certainly the end of a golden age in which the average Joe like myself was able to fully engage in the collecting and smoking of what are arguably the finest cigars in the world. So yes, I think it’s the end of a golden age on several fronts. I’m just grateful that I was able to be a part of it.

[99call]

Just now, Islandboy said:

I see what you’re saying about history basically repeating itself, with how certain fairly recent releases that have not exactly been well received and are scoffed at will likely become sought after gems. For me personally, this is most certainly the end of a golden age in which the average Joe like myself was able to fully engage in the collecting and smoking of what are arguably the finest cigars in the world. So yes, I think it’s the end of a golden age on several fronts. I’m just grateful that I was able to be a part of it.

Thats a brilliant post,  and it reflects a great deal of how I feel also.   

It's hard to put into words but, theres something about the way Cuban cigars offer a beautiful balance of tang and creaminess thats just impossible to replicate.  I was smoking some Nudies the other day, and whilst I have supreme respect for them and enjoy them greatly.......they cant do that trick......or at least they cant yet. 

I feel as if your comment more anchors around on the ability to buy, at a time when there were fantastic cigars and variety available.........which I completely understand and agree with,  But what do you think about the fact that the variety and experimentation of LE, RE, LCDH, special humi releases etc.   do you think these special releases shows any parallels to the 1950s 60s where private commissions were spilling out everywhere, and it was hard to keep track. 

[El Presidente]

16 minutes ago, 99call said:

We are all pissed off, distributers and people in the industry especially (and rightly so), but I'd be interested to hear what people think,  we paint today as a hopeless bloody nightmare,  but are we in fact coming to the end of the 2nd golden age of Cuban Cigars.      2003 - 2020????

I have little doubt that at the 2025 HSA dinner, I will be thanking future president, Maximus Dinero, for the company's never ending motivation to evolve our business. 

The "golden age" of Cuban cigars depends very much on where you live. If it was Spain or the US then it was pre Cigarmageddon 2022.   If you are from much of Asia/ME,high taxed Europe then the golden age is pretty much now where you can buy cigars (current and vintage) from all over the world without having to leave your home. OK, maybe not Jan 2022 as variety is limited but certainly the next period of time as breadth of stock improves. The withdrawal of a big part of the traditional market from purchasing  appears to have only shifted where purchases are being made. One markets loss is another markets gain. 

 

 

 

 

[99call]

1 minute ago, El Presidente said:

I have little doubt that at the 2025 HSA dinner, I will be thanking future president, Maximus Dinero, for the company's never ending motivation to evolve our business. 

The "golden age" of Cuban cigars depends very much on where you live. If it was Spain or the US then it was pre Cigarmageddon 2022.   If you are from much of Asia/ME,high taxed Europe then the golden age is pretty much now where you can buy cigars (current and vintage) from all over the world without having to leave your home. OK, maybe not Jan 2022 as variety is limited but certainly the next period of time as breadth of stock improves. The withdrawal of a big part of the traditional market from purchasing  appears to have only shifted where purchases are being made. One markets loss is another markets gain. 

Rob, I'm not really talking about prices or access to the market necessarily, I'm talking about "Nutso bonkers variety".    Whenever I get my hands on CC catalogues I'm always always super motivated to get scanned over to CCW, I endlessly fascinates me as the the sheer endless variety back in the 50s 60s etc.    I guess what I'm trying to draw a parallel between (to some degree).     Is:

- the 1950s 60s. of bonkers private releases, whereby it seems you could phone in your own custom humi, with your name branded on the front, as long as you were willing to buy 500 cigars

and

- 2003 - 2020,  a less, but similarly bonkers time of HSA, releasing regionals faster then they can produce them, and the customer ending up in some weird never land,  Iike a coin collector who looks for those rare released that got the date wrong, or some other anomally. 

A cant help but feel there is a similar lawless bonkers magic that ties these two eras together. 

[El Presidente]

Just now, 99call said:

Rob, I'm not really talking about prices or access to the market necessarily, I'm talking about "Nutso bonkers variety".    Whenever I get my hands on CC catalogues I'm always always super motivated to get scanned over to CCW, I endlessly fascinates me as the the sheer endless variety back in the 50s 60s etc.    I guess what I'm trying to draw a parallel between (to some degree).     Is:

- the 1950s 60s. of bonkers private releases, whereby it seems you could phone in your own custom humi, with your name branded on the front, as long as you were willing to buy 500 cigars

and

- 2003 - 2020,  a less, but similarly bonkers time of HSA, releasing regionals faster then they can produce them, and the customer ending up in some weird never land,  Iike a coin collector who looks for those rare released that got the date wrong, or some other anomally. 

A cant help but feel there is a similar lawless bonkers magic that ties these two eras together. 

The 70's was probably the last period where a retailer could deal with the factory direct and order a custom line. Better still, they could have two factories "tender" for their business. 

 

[99call]

4 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

The 70's was probably the last period where a retailer could deal with the factory direct and order a custom line. Better still, they could have two factories "tender" for their business. 

 

Could we see the 80s and 90s as quite drab and dull in comparison?..........Not your party life Rob!! Ha! ......cuban cigars?

[El Presidente]

1 minute ago, 99call said:

Could we see the 80s and 90s as quite drab and dull in comparison?..........Not your party life Rob!! Ha! ......cuban cigars?

There wasn't too much sexy about the 90's CC scene. Davidoff left, the boom hit and then it all  ended with the 98/99 disaster. In some ways, that critical period set the scene for what is happening today. 

 

[Islandboy]

10 minutes ago, 99call said:

Thats a brilliant post,  and it reflects a great deal of how I feel also.   

It's hard to put into words but, theres something about the way Cuban cigars offer a beautiful balance of tang and creaminess thats just impossible to replicate.  I was smoking some Nudies the other day, and whilst I have supreme respect for them and enjoy them greatly.......they cant do that trick......or at least they cant yet. 

I feel as if your comment more anchors around on the ability to buy, at a time when there were fantastic cigars and variety available.........which I completely understand and agree with,  But what do you think about the fact that the variety and experimentation of LE, RE, LCDH, special humi releases etc.   do you think these special releases shows any parallels to the 1950s 60s where private commissions were spilling out everywhere, and it was hard to keep track. 

I certainly agree with you on your first point, there simply is no alternative out there that reaches the heights of elegance that a well cared for Cuban cigar is capable of, not that all of them achieve this on the same level.

I have not delved into the deeper history of Habanos as much as I should, so I lack some context surrounding previous periods that have been influential to the development and mystique of the Cuban cigar. But I certainly recognize some of the same ebbs and flows, as well as their ties to overall economic periods. In the heyday leading up to the pandemic, we were treated to RE’s such as Kon Tiki, La Reina and Bushido, to name just a few, and all thanks to private interest collaboration with Habanos. And while I’m confident this will continue, albeit at a slower pace for a spell, we are definitely in a new era that will see these experimental releases, and even regular production stuff, out of reach to many. And out of this, as Rob says, new markets will emerge, and the train will roll on.

[99call]

17 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

There wasn't too much sexy about the 90's CC scene. Davidoff left, the boom hit and then it all  ended with the 98/99 disaster. In some ways, that critical period set the scene for what is happening today. 

 

2003 to 2022 might capture the rise and demise of Cohiba as the Golden Goose.  Personally I don't think it will.   Sadly Trinidad may fall by the wayside.   but this period of time neatly capture the hole Behike project, and the recent price explosion.       I feel as if Cohiba, as an energy is destined to crash

[BrightonCorgi]

To make this more Cuba-centric; Habanos is entering the 5th Epoch.

[ATGroom]

Don't know that I would say "golden" but we are definitely at the end of an era in my opinion.

This was actually the thinking behind my book coming out when it is and the period that it covers, and similarly the MRN book was conceived and released at the end of the previous era, which ran from the reforms after the failed harvest in 1980, through the collapse of the industry in the 90s, and then the Altadis buyout and subsequent reforms until approx 2005.

The era before that would have been from 1960-1980, which is to say the post-Rev period where there is still an 800 cigar regular production catalogue and you can get pretty much anything you want, but with diminishing quality standards at least in terms of band printing and so on. They are still using the traditional strains of the tobacco in this era.

A more researched historian might have more to say about the era before that, but I would put it as 1930s until the Revolution.

Prior to that probably 1911 with the end of the Tobacco Trust up through the boom years of the 1920s.

'Our' era is characterised by a comparatively very small regular production catalogue, the virtual shuttering of any but the big six global brands, the big increase in quality over the previous era, and the strong emphasis on limited releases.

The next era it seems will be a focus on luxury. Small production. High end packaging in smaller formats (even in the last 5 years, if you look at the number of new regular production releases in 25s vs in 20s and 10s, the 25 box is fast going the way of the 50). High prices. Very early days though. The eras really all begin in a period of chaos which we are experiencing now, so it remains to be seen where everything will shake out.

[99call]

2 minutes ago, ATGroom said:

Don't know that I would say "golden" but we are definitely at the end of an era in my opinion.

This was actually the thinking behind my book coming out when it is and the period that it covers, and similarly the MRN book was conceived and released at the end of the previous era, which ran from the reforms after the failed harvest in 1980, through the collapse of the industry in the 90s, and then the Altadis buyout and subsequent reforms until approx 2005.

The era before that would have been from 1960-1980, which is to say the post-Rev period where there is still an 800 cigar regular production catalogue and you can get pretty much anything you want, but with diminishing quality standards at least in terms of band printing and so on. They are still using the traditional strains of the tobacco in this era.

A more researched historian might have more to say about the era before that, but I would put it as 1930s until the Revolution.

Prior to that probably 1911 with the end of the Tobacco Trust up through the boom years of the 1920s.

'Our' era is characterised by a comparatively very small regular production catalogue, the virtual shuttering of any but the big six global brands, the big increase in quality over the previous era, and the strong emphasis on limited releases.

The next era it seems will be a focus on luxury. Small production. High end packaging in smaller formats (even in the last 5 years, if you look at the number of new regular production releases in 25s vs in 20s and 10s, the 25 box is fast going the way of the 50). High prices. Very early days though. The eras really all begin in a period of chaos which we are experiencing now, so it remains to be seen where everything will shake out.

Great insight.   If the luxury/low production model of which you speak of collapses,   would the only other answer be to do a "tail between the legs" low production regular stock, and hope to build from the bottom back up?  I know this is sort of what lots of people are hoping for.......but I just cant see it

[Cigar Surgeon]

[jakebarnes]

The quality remains high. Sadly the quantity remains low. Shame that it really is a golden age in terms of what is being produced--probably the best the core brands have been in a while (RyJ is firing the best it has in a long time, Partagas is in a prime with how the PSD4 has been, Montecristo keeps going) and most of the lesser-brands are really shining. 

 

[Fuzz AI]

2nd Golden Age? No.

I liken it to comics, where we have the Golden, Silver, Bronze and Modern Ages. We're definitely in the Modern Age of cigars; where classic cigars have been redesigned, there's much more artistic flair in marketing and designs, farmers and rollers have risen to prominence, independent manufacturers flourish, and the big brands become increasingly more commercialised.

[ATGroom]

1 hour ago, 99call said:

Great insight.   If the luxury/low production model of which you speak of collapses,   would the only other answer be to do a "tail between the legs" low production regular stock, and hope to build from the bottom back up?  I know this is sort of what lots of people are hoping for.......but I just cant see it

I don't see it failing. I also don't think they have a choice, really.

The eras don't change because of a long-term strategy on the part of HSA, Cubatabaco etc: they change in response to an 'act of God.'

In 1980 it was the year without a harvest. In 2000 it was the Special Period. Today, it is the new economic crisis that Cuba is going through.

Due to lack of resources, Tabacuba is limited in production for the foreseeable future. The only real option HSA has is to maximise the return per stick.

Like the 90s, we are in a period of cigar boom with a lot of younger people coming into the hobby. They will only ever know Cubans as the high priced "luxury" option. Branding is everything. If you ask someone who knows nothing about cigars what the best cigar in the world is they are going to say "Cuban" every time. They have 500 years of intrenched reputation as the best. For the same reason that people are still willing to pay a premium to have Champagne in a world of perfectly good sparkling wines, there will always be people willing to pay for Cubans at any price point.

The old timers who are grumbling at the moment will either get used it (while reminiscing about the good ol' days), or they will leave the hobby.

There are other threads about stock piling up. It's not really true in my observation, at least not in markets with easy access to international mail order, but in any event, I think it will sort itself out before too long. The people who are refusing to buy right now because of the shock of the increases will get used to the idea and start buying again, or new buyers without the history will come in and pay the prices asked, or stock will move from the markets where it isn't moving to the markets where it is.

As always in Cuba, there is the wildcard. If the government collapses, or the embargo ends, or both, then all bets are off.

[Wookie]

Golden age in terms of flavor for RyJ Churchills and Cohiba esplendido were mid 1990s for me….but maybe I’m just nostalgic.  I stopped purchasing CCs from about 2004-2014. Then when I realized that nobody cared about confiscating sticks anymore I went on a tear from 2014-2020…via mail order.  No longer were vendors having to re-package etc. Value was amazing.  I was paying $175/box for Monte #2 in Madrid in mid-1990s and totally sweating the RE-entry process. In 2016 they were still available online for ~$250/box and only a click away. And I enjoy current montes same as 1990s. I cannot tell the diff between Trini fundadores from 1999-current.  Love them all. The flip side of the OP post is that we are definitely in a good/very good age of NCs.  There are blenders/growers creating some really good stuff (bespoke, JDN, Romacraft, etc).  I remember trading some CAOs at JJ Fox in late 1990s for some CCs….back when NCs were still emergent. 

[BrightonCorgi]

The market and climate towards cigars and tobacco has changed.  Habanos is accommodating and catering to those changes.  Just as it has in previous eras.  Making less of something for a higher profit margin sounds like a good route for them; let's see where it goes.

[JohnnyO]

5 hours ago, ATGroom said:

As always in Cuba, there is the wildcard. If the government collapses, or the embargo ends, or both, then all bets are off.

Not happening Bubba. Wildcard is the Giants, Dolphins, or Redskins. Class dismissed. John