Cohiba Coronas

[gojira]

We all know that the Cohiba Coronas is a rare cigar. I have done a little research and found out that there were petacas with 5 cigars released. That information is missing from the Min Ron Nee book and CCW.

I have a little favour to ask, if someone has this cigar, be it from the 25 count box and/or the petacas could he please PM me the measurements of this cigar. I would especially be interested in the length of the ones from the petacas but the one from the 25 count box will be helpful as well.

Many thanks in advance!

[NSXCIGAR]

After some digging it appears you are correct. I was able to find one image from the UK auction for a lot in 2020 of a petaca of Cohiba Coronas from 1989:

I was unable to find any other information or images of Coronas in petacas anywhere but from this image I would say they apparently did exist. 

As far as measurements is there a reason you have for suspecting they may deviate from a standard Coronas vitola? It's pretty unlikely anyone here possesses an actual example. These are very rare cigars mostly due to the fact they were only in production for 3 years.

[gojira]

2 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

After some digging it appears you are correct. I was able to find one image from the UK auction for a lot in 2020 of a petaca of Cohiba Coronas from 1989:

I was unable to find any other information or images of Coronas in petacas anywhere but from this image I would say they apparently did exist. 

As far as measurements is there a reason you have for suspecting they may deviate from a standard Coronas vitola? It's pretty unlikely anyone here possesses an actual example. These are very rare cigars mostly due to the fact they were only in production for 3 years.

That's what I found as well. I recently acquired one of these with one cigar left but the cigar is a little longer. I doubt that the cigar is fake, but it would definitely ease my mind if someone could confirm this (the length) as this is a high value item.

[NSXCIGAR]

4 hours ago, gojira said:

I recently acquired one of these with one cigar left but the cigar is a little longer.

Interesting. Was the individual cigar box included? Based on the UK auction image they would have been packed very much the same as current Cohiba petacas. I would think if the cigar were too long it wouldn't fit in the box. If the individual box isn't included and the cigar is too long I might be starting to think about the possibility that the cigar may not be genuine...

[gojira]

3 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Interesting. Was the individual cigar box included? Based on the UK auction image they would have been packed very much the same as current Cohiba petacas. I would think if the cigar were too long it wouldn't fit in the box. If the individual box isn't included and the cigar is too long I might be starting to think about the possibility that the cigar may not be genuine...

Everything is included, the individual box and the petacas so the cigar probably is genuine and this is another case of es Cuba.

[NSXCIGAR]

35 minutes ago, gojira said:

Everything is included, the individual box and the petacas so the cigar probably is genuine and this is another case of es Cuba.

So the cigar which is longer than 142mm fits in the box? That is odd, but if it fits, you must acquit. 

[Bijan]

I mean how long are we talking?

A couple of mm? Or more?

Anyways if it's a fake all you would have to do is to take a Siglo III and cut it shorter. Maybe change the band.

If it's more than 2 or 3 mm long that is a possibility, that they did so and left too much on...

[99call]

As someone who has pictoral evidence of some of the most draw dropping fakery anyone could ever imagine, 

Never......rule......anything.....out. 

As @Bijan alluded to.  The band, box, internal box could all be 100% legit, but sadly the internet is saturated with people A, collecting the initial rare item, then B, using 'donor cigars' redressed to sell on. 

The terrible irony is I imagine the fake donor cigars probably often tastes better that the original item.  

As @El Presidente always says.   you are not just buying an item,  you're buying the seller.    Who are they, what is there name worth, what do they stand to lose if proven to be bullshit artist. 

With @gojira being a seasoned pro with collecting, I would be pretty sure this is just a case of Cuba being Cuba. 

People put up Cohiba's on the daily smoke everyday that look like death warmed up. It wouldn't be a surprise to find wayward Cohiba's from every year of production. 

If it was me,... I would be crossing my fingers that is was a QDO Coronas Claro. HA!

[zeedubbya]

Long time member, not posting lately, but had to jump in and offer up a story from way back in my brain.  I recall a friend of mine from the early 2000s had 2 or 3 of these in Petacas and we all thought they were fakes.  This was around 2001-2003 or so. He was a prolific collector and claimed they were real.  I vaguely recall him saying a couple times he thought they were repackaged Davidoff 4000s from the early 90s when Davidoff was being discoed.  I didn’t think anything of it until just now.  I didn’t know the catalog and history like I do know, and had no clue at the time the 4000 was a longer cigar.  
 

This would support the idea of them being longer, but take this info for what it is-I don’t know if it’s the size of a Davidoff 4000, which would be a full 12mm longer.  To this day it still puzzles me why he would have thought they were repackaged Davidoff 4000s, although there seems to be some evidence supporting the fallout of the relationship between Davidoff and Havana being really ugly, so it could have been a real story.  It was a long time ago and a passing memory and I have never seen one since.  I doubt this helps, but just thought I would share the only info I have on these.  

[ATGroom]

The information chain is pretty standard. CCW got it from MRN. MRN got it from the 1989 Cubatabaco catalogue, which lists the size as 42 x 142.

Not sure where MRN got the information about the packaging, as the catalogue doesn't list that. Given that most (all?) other Cohiba was available in packs at the time, it seems highly possible that it was also available in packs and he just wasn't aware of it.

MRN states in his book that he hasn't seen the cigar, so he wouldn't be aware if the size was different to the catalogue.

It is definitely possible that Cubatabaco got the size wrong in their catalogue. On the balance of probability, it seems more likely that some fakers got the size wrong on their fakes.

Would need to see more than one example with a very solid history before coming to any firm conclusion, which is going to be tough to come by.

[NSXCIGAR]

It is another interesting note @ATGroom that the details state that the reason given for discontinuation was overlap with another Cohiba model which could only be the case if the Coronas was a Coronas Grandes. As @zeedubbya points out that's 9mm longer than a Coronas as the Siglo III was essentially the replacement for the Davidoff 4000. @gojira, is this cigar 155mm? 

[gojira]

1 hour ago, NSXCIGAR said:

It is another interesting note @ATGroom that the details state that the reason given for discontinuation was overlap with another Cohiba model which could only be the case if the Coronas was a Coronas Grandes. As @zeedubbya points out that's 9mm longer than a Coronas as the Siglo III was essentially the replacement for the Davidoff 4000. @gojira, is this cigar 155mm? 

I'm currently not at home but I will post pics of everything once I'm near my stash again. I measured the cigar when it came in and from memory it was over 150 mm long and fit perfectly into the petacas. The person who sold it to me purchased it in Spain in the early 90's and he is someone that I trust 100% so I really doubt that this is a fake.

[ATGroom]

I measured the picture in the 1989 catalogue. The images used in this catalogue appear to be actual pictures of cigars with different lighting and flaws etc, not faked shapes like in some catalogues. It measures 142mm long.

Compared to the 152mm Coronas Especiales next to it, both cigars have bands that are exactly 15mm wide, which indicates that the Coronas is not simply a larger image that is shrunken to fit the predefined size. I.e., if the Coronas was a 155mm cigar that had been reduced to be 142mm long on the page, it would have 14mm band rather than the 15mm of the correctly sized CE. (you can see this error in some other catalogues, where they have an image of a smaller cigar blown up to fit the dimensions of a bigger one or vice versa).

No idea where the cigars for the catalogues came from or how they got their imagery, so it could still be a mistake somewhere along the line. Cuba was just as much Cuba in 1989, if not more so. But the implication is that they had a 142mm cigar with a Cohiba band in their possession when they were making the catalogue.

[NSXCIGAR]

22 hours ago, gojira said:

I measured the cigar when it came in and from memory it was over 150 mm long

So it very well might be a Coronas Grandes vitola.  If it's at least 7mm longer than it's supposed to be yet fits in the box then it's looking like that possibility. 

We definitely need a measurement of another confirmed authentic example. 

These cigars are so rare that I'm not entirely surprised that the issue hasn't come up until now but it is still quite odd that if they actually are Coronas Grandes it wouldn't have been mentioned anywhere to this point.