jenda445 Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 Hey everyone, I'll explain my troubles... It all started with one of my cigar orders when I bought some CCs and lit one up. I saw holes in the ash similar to those on the photographs. And since the cigar burned totally wrong, tasted bitter and tunneled (all the way from foot to cap), I decided to unravel the last third just to see whether I'll find anything interesting. And I did - something looking like a rest of a beetle larvae or shell or something like that along with small holes in the leaves. I immediately went and froze all my cigars. The thing is... Why is it, that I see this tunneling in all my cigars ever since? I went on a vacation and bought cigars from several stores and the cigars tunneled all the same. Are the shops I went to just beetles infested, did the importer have problems with beetles, or am I missing something? But I haven't seen any holes in the outer wrappers. Well, maybe just once, but they were not typical beetle holes but seemed more like the wrapper being ripped or scratched. I'm simply confused. P.S.: I wrote this half a year ago and now, after buying several other cigars from a different shop, it happens too. No signs of beetles from the outside, no holes, nothing. Just these tiny tunnels going from top to bottom with maybe some larger holes here and there. This really takes away the pleasure of smoking cigars, because I can taste that the cigars are great, but the taste soon becomes "burnt" (similar to when you smoke a cigar which is too humid). Edit: Just to add one thing.. I had a few cigars since that didn't have this problem. But most CCs and even some NCs I bought did. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juliano88 Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 What are your storage temps? Could be cigars rolled by inexperienced roller. Placing thinner leaves in the center causing that to happen. Could also be under filled within the center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bijan Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 If it is general I would suspect your storage humidity, probably too high. What's do the cigars feel like when they are tunneling are they squishy? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenda445 Posted January 1, 2022 Author Share Posted January 1, 2022 1 hour ago, Juliano88 said: What are your storage temps? Could be cigars rolled by inexperienced roller. Placing thinner leaves in the center causing that to happen. Could also be under filled within the center. I have a tupperdor (or actually a "sistemador" ) with two 62% bovedas. The temperature doesn't go above 23C. You make good points. But I always imagined tunneling as a big center tunnel, not these kind of tiny tunnels. 1 hour ago, Bijan said: If it is general I would suspect your storage humidity, probably too high. What's do the cigars feel like when they are tunneling are they squishy? Not squishy. At least not generaly. Maybe some are, but they are all around less filled and more springy. But this happens with hard cigars too, which have tight draws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bijan Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 Those holes in your pictures in the cherry/ash are weird and I don't think I've ever seen or noticed that. Did you smoke the cigars you got on vacation which had the same problem there on vacation or did you bring them home and store them with your other cigars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juliano88 Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 In my experience, when I worried about the condition of the cigars too much, it would negatively impact my experience. Rh is great and temps even though a little high, isn’t danger zone in my opinion. Maybe separate those cigars from your stock just in case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nKostyan Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 Ordinary tunnels. If it doesn't give too easy a draw, that's the norm. The beetle is determined in a different way: place the cigar vertically with foot on the table and knock lightly. If dust has fallen out of the cigar, it is the excrement of a beetle 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bijan Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 Some thread on another forum suggesting that the issue with holes in the ash is due to stems which burn faster than the rest of the tobacco: https://www.cigarforums.net/threads/ash-holes-and-homicide.143261/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juliano88 Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 9 minutes ago, jenda445 said: I have a tupperdor (or actually a "sistemador" ) with two 62% bovedas. The temperature doesn't go above 23C. You make good points. But I always imagined tunneling as a big center tunnel, not these kind of tiny tunnels. Could also be from the draw machine they use in factories. Could be opening up a tunnel in the shaft of the cigar when inspected that may be under filled. Quality control varies from factory to factory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenda445 Posted January 1, 2022 Author Share Posted January 1, 2022 3 hours ago, Bijan said: Those holes in your pictures in the cherry/ash are weird and I don't think I've ever seen or noticed that. Did you smoke the cigars you got on vacation which had the same problem there on vacation or did you bring them home and store them with your other cigars? Well, I first noticed this when smoking cigars ordered online. I froze them all, the new and the older ones I had (the older ones didn't have this problem). Then I noticed it on the vacation, where it happened for instance to Arturo Fuente, Davidoff (short filler Primeros), short filler Cohiba Shorts and some others. They were bought (from different shops) and all smoked there. And it happened with cigars bought after the vac too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bijan Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 One thing I will say is I gave my father a box of monte 2s in a tupperdor with 65% boveda and since he doesn't open it open often and stores it at room temperature the humidity is higher than 65% and they tunnel and the taste is off. I'll probably have to switch him down to lower bovedas. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nKostyan Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 Some thread on another forum suggesting that the issue with holes in the ash is due to stems which burn faster than the rest of the tobacco: https://www.cigarforums.net/threads/ash-holes-and-homicide.143261/It can also be the handwriting of a torcedor who uses the entubado technique. It's rare for Cuba, but it happens 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bijan Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 5 minutes ago, jenda445 said: Well, I first noticed this when smoking cigars ordered online. I froze them all, the new and the older ones I had (the older ones didn't have this problem). Then I noticed it on the vacation, where it happened for instance to Arturo Fuente, Davidoff (short filler Primeros), short filler Cohiba Minis and some others. They were bought (from different shops) and all smoked there. And it happened with cigars bought after the vac too. From a logical perspective the issue is most likely to do with the common element. If only cigars from one vendor then the vendor. If only cigars in your storage something with the storage. In this case the common element is you. How fast are you smoking? How are you puffing? How are you lighting the cigar? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamthewolf Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 7 minutes ago, Bijan said: One thing I will say is I gave my father a box of monte 2s in a tupperdor with 65% boveda and since he doesn't open it open often and stores it at room temperature the humidity is higher than 65% and they tunnel and the taste is off. I'll probably have to switch him down to lower bovedas. @BijanI know we chatted about this before, but to update you, the 62 packs in my tupperdores at room temp are all reading 64RH. @jenda445 Not sure the OP would want to use a lower RH pack. Sorry if I missed it OP, but I see you're also using 62 packs, but do you have a reliable hygrometer reading as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenda445 Posted January 1, 2022 Author Share Posted January 1, 2022 1 hour ago, Bijan said: From a logical perspective the issue is most likely to do with the common element. If it was only cigars in your storage something with the storage. In this case the common element is you. How fast are you smoking? How are you puffing? How are you lighting the cigar? Hmm.. maybe you're right. Just to add, this happens to my dad too. But he has similar storage conditions and buys from the same e-shops as I do. I smoke really slowly (think robusto like 2 hours or so). I'm drawing slowly and gently just to the point I see the edge of the cherry lighting up. I light the cigar with a soft flame butane lighter, firstly toasting the foot and then lighting. 1 hour ago, williamthewolf said: @BijanI know we chatted about this before, but to update you, the 62 packs in my tupperdores at room temp are all reading 64RH. @jenda445 Not sure the OP would want to use a lower RH pack. Sorry if I missed it OP, but I see you're also using 62 packs, but do you have a reliable hygrometer reading as well? I use boveda butler, so probably not really 100% accurate but I think it is pretty usable and when I see it going off (for instance when I add new cigars to the humidor), then I calibrate it again. But it has been pretty great now that I have put a new battery inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bijan Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 5 minutes ago, jenda445 said: I smoke really slowly (think robusto like 2 hours or so). I'm drawing slowly and gently just to the point I see the edge of the cherry lighting up. I light the cigar with a soft flame butane lighter, firstly toasting the foot and then lighting. That might be the issue. Tunneling in general is caused by either high humidity or slow smoking, or both. In general if the wrapper all around the cherry is burning then you don't get tunneling as much. I would make a conscious effort to keep the wrapper lit (by puffing harder periodically) or to touch up the cigar with a lighter and see if that helps. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamthewolf Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 6 minutes ago, jenda445 said: I use boveda butler, so probably not really 100% accurate but I think it is pretty usable and when I see it going off (for instance when I add new cigars to the humidor), then I calibrate it again. But it has been pretty great now that I have put a new battery inside. I've had one stick, with a similar albeit much milder version of your tunneling in recent memory. That said it was a stick fresh off the truck and smoked in a very hot and humid environment. Also seemed under filled for me with a looser draw. Could be a combo of all factors: storage, your particular sticks, and the slower rate of smoking. I'd bet against it being beetles bc of no dust and wrapper holes. Plus, you're freezing everything on your own now. Bijan has a good point. You seem to like soft flame which is great, but I'd try one with a torch or at least do touch ups with a single jet and see if it makes any difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PigFish Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 This looks like run of the mill crap construction that often passes for Cuban cigars these days. Once a tunnel starts, the massive flux of air that bypasses the cross section as a whole, creates a real lousy taste, hyper burns the tunnel walls, and skips core tobaccos, if the are even present. This is not your fault, but the rollers and the makers. Cigars missing core tobaccos, slower burning center axis tobacco, also causes this problem. Once heated, when the cigar becomes really soft, try smashing the cigar flat, collapsing the tunnels. This can save the smoking experience, but won’t fix a crap cigar. -Piggy 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bijan Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 5 minutes ago, PigFish said: This looks like run of the mill crap construction that often passes for Cuban cigars these days. I agree that underfilling and poor construction will cause this but if he sees this in nearly all his cigars both Cuban and non Cuban I think something else is likely the cause. Edit: for example on vacation he had this happen on a machine made short filler Cohiba mini and some non Cubans. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chas.Alpha Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 I have very limited experience with beetles, but those little bastards always seem to want to tunnel out to the wrapper after hatching. The 1 box of Dip 2’s that I bought in Holland were a disaster by the time I got them home. Thankfully, I didn’t introduce them to the population before I discovered the beetles. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PigFish Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 18 minutes ago, Bijan said: I agree that underfilling and poor construction will cause this but if he sees this in nearly all his cigars both Cuban and non Cuban I think something else is likely the cause. Edit: for example on vacation he had this happen on a machine made short filler Cohiba mini and some non Cubans. It is funny you bring this up. I have a confession. I often scan threads and sometimes pass a lot of details. I don't do this out of arrogance, it is a product of experience. It appears here that the OP might have thought this was beetles. I tended to ignore the beetles hypothesis as beetles often show themselves via evidence. I passed on the climatology aspect due to the tunnels and went on with a conclusion that is empirically proven to me, especially after someone had said something about the cigars not necessarily being soft. Under-filled, yet dryer cigars can often be firm. I often skip a lot of hypothesis from others as a result of filtering. I have learned to do this over a decade of helping people diagnose cigar storage issues. People conflate, draw wrong conclusions, follow BS cigar board myths... extrapolate, often in the wrong direction, etc. It taints the pool with bad data. I am guilty of filtering. I looked at the pictures, read it accompanied some foul tastes, went to tunneling and poor production standards, and planted my flag... Can't guarantee I am right, but pretty sure!!! (not disparaging the comments of others) Free advice is often worth what it costs!!! -LOL Cheers mate, and happy New Year. -R 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenda445 Posted January 1, 2022 Author Share Posted January 1, 2022 41 minutes ago, Lord Verulam said: Yea sounds like the OPs smoking technique isn’t enough to keep the wrapper ignited ….maybe rh is also a tad high Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I will add that dad has similar problems and he smokes way faster than me. So I don’t know if the cadence can be the culprit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bijan Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 36 minutes ago, jenda445 said: I will add that dad has similar problems and he smokes way faster than me. So I don’t know if the cadence can be the culprit. On the one hand I would think about storage humidity and ambient humidity where you are smoking. On the other hand, it doesn't depend solely on how fast you smoke, but also on the pattern of how you puff, if too infrequently, or too shallowly, then the middle/center (and I suppose the stems/twigs) will smoulder while the outside will go out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenda445 Posted January 1, 2022 Author Share Posted January 1, 2022 6 minutes ago, Bijan said: On the one hand I would think about storage humidity and ambient humidity where you are smoking. On the other hand, it doesn't depend solely on how fast you smoke, but also on the pattern of how you puff, if too infrequently, or too shallowly, then the middle/center (and I suppose the stems/twigs) will smoulder while the outside will go out. Thanks alot for all the info. I will try to smoke a bit more consistently and maybe deeply. It's interesting because I neveer had to deal with this up until that one box of Trinidad Media Luna. They were perfectly rolled with not a single dud in the box of 12 and they were from '18 I think. Really good flavor wise, but as I said, pnly up to some point and then I noticed the burnt, peppery flavor. Maybe I just smoked differently before? Didn't pay as much attention to it as now? I really don't know. For instance, just off the topic, my previous order had some Partagas Mille Fleurs and apart from some duds, they were awesome. I bought a pack of three CoRos along with it and I gave one to my dad and we smoked them together - a sublime smoke with a taste reminding me of "white coffee" we have here, totally amazing. The last was all grassy and peppery, didn't taste great, but didn't tunnel anyhow. Then I bought a box of HdM Le Hoyo du Depute and the whole box was just duds and whatever flavor there was, it was soon lost in the fight with the unthinkably tight draw, even perfecdraw tool didn't help. You know, This tunneling issue takes away the joy of smoking. And it's so sad, when I see the potential in the flavor, which at first seems great and then just goes bitter, burnt and peppery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenda445 Posted January 1, 2022 Author Share Posted January 1, 2022 2 hours ago, Bijan said: I agree that underfilling and poor construction will cause this but if he sees this in nearly all his cigars both Cuban and non Cuban I think something else is likely the cause. Edit: for example on vacation he had this happen on a machine made short filler Cohiba mini and some non Cubans. Oh and sorry, I didn't mean Cohiba Minis but Shorts. My bad, always mix these cigarillos up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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