Siglo II Authenticity Opinions

[RichG]

Hello Gents,

I ask that you please provide your valued opinions, as they will most certainly be edifying. 

About four months ago I received this paper box of Siglo II. Undoubtedly I purchased this in error, thinking I was getting a wood box, not paper packs. This vendor is generally a trusted vendor as far as I can tell from popular opinion, but I have seen questions arise with their products from time to time. Let's face it...people are quick to judge, so I don't put much credence in that.

I posed a question on an internet forum, asking for opinions on whether I should be concerned regarding missing Cuban warranty seals on some of the packs, and I stated the source. Some people found this issue questionable, and someone tagged the vendor. They responded as follows:

"This morning I have been in contact with our distributor to ensure that what we believed is correct and to add more clarity behind the reasoning of the missing box seals.

All cigars meant for export from Cuba have a process of freezing to kill any kind of cigar beetle. Although this process is carried out in Cuba, our distributor also carry out this process of freezing a second time.

As you can appreciate, when glue or adhesive changes temperature from hot to cold on more than one occasion, it looses its stickiness which then can remove its purpose altogether.

As the cigars are handled to add the health warnings, the seal can fall off. As you can see on the box in the images you have provided, there is the remains of glue from where the seal has been.

We believe the above to have happened in this instance with your boxes, which is why some have and others do not."

While I could detect no presence of adhesive at all, I had no real proof to the contrary, and I had no interest in damaging their reputation, I publicly accepted their explanation. As an aside, joining here in the interim has taught me that I would have been better handling this privately, rather than mentioning the vendor at all. Lesson learned. To be clear, I never did approach this with hostility however, I simply stated, "I got these cigars from X...they are missing these seals, should I be concerned?" 

To my untrained eye and nose each of the 25 cigars I opened smelled identical and all looked excellent. They all smelled like I was opening a fresh Cohiba. Fast forward a few months, and I obtain a black light. Upon review, I notice that about five or six of these cigars lack the black light number.

Since this revelation I have smoked one of the cigars missing the blacklight marking. It was not good, and did not ring out as Cohiba to me. Bad day, psychological, who knows, but I tasted what I tasted, and it wasn't good. Conversely others I smoked from this box have been good and one was great.

In the photos the left cigar is one of the ones with a black light marking, and the right is one without.

So I put it to you esteemed gentlemen, what say you? At this point I have no dog in this fight, and it is more that I find this interesting and educational. Cuba being Cuba or something amiss. 

Also, FYI, all Taino heads have solid microprinting. 

Thank you for your valued input.

Rich

 

[Mickey D]

Following with curiosity.

[Edicion]

Great post. Following

[nKostyan]

Answer a few questions:
- was the Spanish distributor's blue round seal opened or sealed?
- what is the factory code and Habanos number on the warranty seal?
Explanations about the loss of glue properties are not convincing: the glue loses its properties from high temperatures, not from freezing.

[RichG]

@nKostyan

-I cannot remember regarding the Spanish seal

-000047591650 - I would like to think I checked this on Habanos verifier at the time.

Thank you for the explanation regarding the glue. 

My thoughts are...that it is possible some of the cigars were swapped out, and most are authentic. 
 

Should any bands be completely missing the black light mark? But at the same time...are there fake bands with micro printing on the Taino heads?

[Corylax18]

I've personally frozen several dozen boxes my self and never had a single warranty seal fall. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen, but I cant provide any evidence to corroborate. That response made me more suspicious, rather than less. 

The mix of microprinted/non, the lack of seals, the look of that cigar on the left (shorter, smaller rg, does it have a 3 seam cap?) I would have asked for a refund straight away. Cohiba started added backlight features a few years ago, but again, I'm not aware of a single case of a "split box" meaning bands that both backlight and don't in the same box. That's very suspicious too. 

Was the seal on the outer box broken/cut when you received it?

[Mickey D]

1 hour ago, RichG-LI-NY said:

@nKostyan

-I cannot remember regarding the Spanish seal

-000047591650 - I would like to think I checked this on Habanos verifier at the time.

Thank you for the explanation regarding the glue. 

My thoughts are...that it is possible some of the cigars were swapped out, and most are authentic. 
 

Should any bands be completely missing the black light mark? But at the same time...are there fake bands with micro printing on the Taino heads?

My Cohiba bands have the black light number on the yellow band. What micro printing are you referring to on the heads? I can’t see that with a 10x loupe.

[RichG]

7 hours ago, Mickey D said:

My Cohiba bands have the black light number on the yellow band. What micro printing are you referring to on the heads? I can’t see that with a 10x loupe.

The tiny Taino heads on the top and bottom rings of the band have writing on them (I forget which, and I am not at a band at the moment, but I believe they say Cuba and/or Cohiba). 
 

If you take a close up focused photo of the band you can see the marks of the writing, but you can only make it out legibly with magnification at 30 or 40x.

7 hours ago, Corylax18 said:

I've personally frozen several dozen boxes my self and never had a single warranty seal fall. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen, but I cant provide any evidence to corroborate. That response made me more suspicious, rather than less. 

The mix of microprinted/non, the lack of seals, the look of that cigar on the left (shorter, smaller rg, does it have a 3 seam cap?) I would have asked for a refund straight away. Cohiba started added backlight features a few years ago, but again, I'm not aware of a single case of a "split box" meaning bands that both backlight and don't in the same box. That's very suspicious too. 

Was the seal on the outer box broken/cut when you received it?

All have microprinting to clarify. A handful are missing the black light print on the back of the band.

I believe that cigar on the left has a triple cap, it’s just sloppy and hard to see from that angle. I will look at all of the cigars again later and take more photos. The size variance in the cigars to me appeared potentially typical.

Yes, had I been more experienced at the time I  would have requested a refund. 
 

A question that occurs to me...does the factory even attempt to achieve similarity across cigars in paper boxes, I would imagine they care way less than with a wood or dress box where the cigars are all presented visually together.

I believe the outer box seals were broken presumably for inspection, so this raised no flags to me.

[Mickey D]

Ah yes,I can see the micro printing on the micro heads. ^^^&

Thanks for the information.

[nKostyan]

In 201x, HSA sold large quantities of cigars returned from Spain. In Spain, if the seller couldn’t sell Cuban cigars for several years, he is entitled to a refund. The cigars are returned to the central warehouse in Havana, culled, stamped “Revisado” and sent to secondary markets. The cigars in the packs came from different boxes: different colors, slightly different lengths, different calibers. Many such cigars were imported to Russia. Tabacalera performs additional quality control: they opens the packages and puts its blue seal. They can not to return this box of cigars to the HSA, but independently perform the rejection and send them to the grey market, where you bought it.
So I asked if the Tabacalera seal was sealed.


 

[RichG]

23 hours ago, nKostyan said:

In 201x, HSA sold large quantities of cigars returned from Spain. In Spain, if the seller couldn’t sell Cuban cigars for several years, he is entitled to a refund. The cigars are returned to the central warehouse in Havana, culled, stamped “Revisado” and sent to secondary markets. The cigars in the packs came from different boxes: different colors, slightly different lengths, different calibers. Many such cigars were imported to Russia. Tabacalera performs additional quality control: they opens the packages and puts its blue seal. They can not to return this box of cigars to the HSA, but independently perform the rejection and send them to the grey market, where you bought it.
So I asked if the Tabacalera seal was sealed.


 

Unfortunately I cannot recall at this point, as this was a few months ago. If I understand correctly, are you saying that any paper packs from a European grey market vendor can be a mix of different box and date cigars...essentially rendering the overall paper box date meaningless? Or are these meant to be sold as singles only?

[nKostyan]

Unfortunately I cannot recall at this point, as this was a few months ago. If I understand correctly, are you saying that any paper packs from a European grey market vendor can be a mix of different box and date cigars...essentially rendering the overall paper box date meaningless? Or are these meant to be sold as singles only?

I haven't seen this recently, but it's theoretically possible. One package is assembled from two

[RichG]

Wow, that is a serious revelation of which I had no knowledge. Thank you for the input. 

 

[Cairo]

On 4/17/2021 at 11:18 AM, nKostyan said:

In 201x, HSA sold large quantities of cigars returned from Spain. In Spain, if the seller couldn’t sell Cuban cigars for several years, he is entitled to a refund. The cigars are returned to the central warehouse in Havana, culled, stamped “Revisado” and sent to secondary markets.

Really interesting--is there any reason to believe this practice is not ongoing?--presumably Spain must always have unsold cigars out there....