Man cave ventilation?

[BellevilleMXZ]

I have searched a few ways, and I am not finding it. Was there not a good topic on ways to ventilate a room when smoking? I want to convert a finished garage space(heated floor) at new house. I want to put in a permanent , quiet way to exchange air. I don't just want to stick a fan in a window. I should have saved it, sorry. Biggest thing to me , is quiet, and good exchange so as not to let smoke get into house.  

[Fuzz]

Raise the floor a few inches. Blow air up through the floor and have extractors in the false ceiling.

[MD Puffer]

I'll be following this thread.  I actually intended to post my own on the subject.

The problem I have are drop ceilings.  I have two excellent places to smoke- my gun room and a spare office where I practice.  

At home, my gun room is in a finished basement but it has drop ceilings.  Same thing at work- drop ceiling.  

Smoke will seep past and infiltrate the other rooms in both cases.  

Does anyone know how to manage ventilation to create a smoking room with drop ceilings?

[DaBoot]

Might not be the BEST option, but inline fans (different diameter based on needs) with tubing to vent  outside, or carbon filter with fan attached Cleans the air(again different sizes per sq ft) that doesn’t need to be vented outdoors 

[Fuzz]

How big is your garage? What ceiling area are you covering? Do you need to seal around doors?

[bsubtown]

We are in the middle of building our home and I am installing a smoking/gun room. The room is heated and cooled with return air back to the furnace. With the flip of a switch the return air gets shut off and a vent to the exterior of the house gets turned on. The heated or cooled air will still enter the room but will not return to the rest of the house. My builder has done this for at least one other house and he says it works very well. He is friends with the guy he did it for in the past and says there are no issues. I will also be running a Blueair Classic to cut more of the smoke out. We should be in in June and I will know exactly how well it works then. 

[Riverstyx]

I'd be interested to hear what others have done as well.  I'm building out my cigar room now.  The AC guy is coming on Saturday to assess options. 

 @dominattorney gave me great advice on the fan (including size).

@bsubtownHow did they get the return to shut off with a switch?  And does it still need to be covered or do you have the air being sucked through the return vent and just sent a different direction (outside the house)?

[prodigy]

I'll be following this thread.  I actually intended to post my own on the subject.
The problem I have are drop ceilings.  I have two excellent places to smoke- my gun room and a spare office where I practice.  
At home, my gun room is in a finished basement but it has drop ceilings.  Same thing at work- drop ceiling.  
Smoke will seep past and infiltrate the other rooms in both cases.  
Does anyone know how to manage ventilation to create a smoking room with drop ceilings?

They make ceiling grid and tiles that are gasketed, this would help but any lights or fixtures in the ceiling may let some smoke through. It might be referred to as "clean room" ceiling tile.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

[bsubtown]

@Riverstyx There is a servo controlled damper on both the return air and on the external ventilation. The switch gets hit and it closes the return air at the same time as opening the external vent and turning on the fan to suck out the air. 

The damper is about 8 feet upstream from the return air in the room. It would have been closer but the air duct comes in from the ceiling and then is at 90 degrees to the floor. While the external exhaust is in the ceiling. This way the air will circulate from the ground to the top and push more air outside. The conditioned air is about 15 feet from the exhaust fan. The external exhaust is probably 6" in diameter. I can get you exact measurements or info from the HVAC guy if you need.  And I hope this is making sense. 

[Phillys]

As mentioned above, inline fan (get a powerful one), rigid ducting and add a hood.

I built mine out of cardboard as a "proof of concept" 4'x6' hood 4 slopes (like a house roof or restaurant hood vent) vented from the top, works great and no smell whatsoever as all the smoke is vented outside thanks to the hood. Place the inline fan away from your place to reduce noise.       

[tksamtec]

Seal the room... basically, what you need to do is suck out the stale/smokey air from the ceiling (using ductwork), and vent in fresh air from a lower spot in the corner (using the same size ductwork) from an outside vent hood ... if the room is 100% sealed, the act of venting out smokey air will suck in the replacement fresh air.  I use a 700cfm (I think thats the size) vent/fan to do the air handling in my smoking room.  I have 2 ceiling vents at about 1/3 and 2/3 of the distance across the room, and 1 clean air vent with filter.

I run my air handler for about 15 mins after I am done smoking, dump all my ashes in the trash and make sur ethere are no residual dirty ashtrays, etc... and the room is fresh and clean, like no one was ever there after jsut a few mins.  I have a sealed exterior door closing/sealign off the room from the rest of the house and the 2 HVAC systems (house and cigar room) are not tied together.

I damper the outside vent closed when its not in use to keep the cold winter air from flowing in. When the damper is open and air handler is on, there is a thermostat and seperate heater  in line with the fresh air ducting to "condition" colder air to a more temperate conditon when I am smoking in the winter months.

If you need to see what I did, I can give you the photobucket link to my work.

[Phillys]

Mind you, my setup is in an open space in the basement and there is no hint of smoke smell anywhere in the house.

[jfire]

I did this for another group recently. Here is my setup. 

[tksamtec]

3 hours ago, Phillys said:

Mind you, my setup is in an open space in the basement and there is no hint of smoke smell anywhere in the house.

Sounds like your setup is functional, but I designed a true smoking lounge without having to see fans, ductwork or ventilation equipment... your setup is just a huge 4x6 fan hood sucking smoke away from an area.

[BellevilleMXZ]

19 hours ago, Fuzz said:

How big is your garage? What ceiling area are you covering? Do you need to seal around doors?

About 300 sq feet. All drywall, and no to man door, but may be leakage around slide up garage door

[BellevilleMXZ]

5 hours ago, tksamtec said:

Seal the room... basically, what you need to do is suck out the stale/smokey air from the ceiling (using ductwork), and vent in fresh air from a lower spot in the corner (using the same size ductwork) from an outside vent hood ... if the room is 100% sealed, the act of venting out smokey air will suck in the replacement fresh air.  I use a 700cfm (I think thats the size) vent/fan to do the air handling in my smoking room.  I have 2 ceiling vents at about 1/3 and 2/3 of the distance across the room, and 1 clean air vent with filter.

I run my air handler for about 15 mins after I am done smoking, dump all my ashes in the trash and make sur ethere are no residual dirty ashtrays, etc... and the room is fresh and clean, like no one was ever there after jsut a few mins.  I have a sealed exterior door closing/sealign off the room from the rest of the house and the 2 HVAC systems (house and cigar room) are not tied together.

I damper the outside vent closed when its not in use to keep the cold winter air from flowing in. When the damper is open and air handler is on, there is a thermostat and seperate heater  in line with the fresh air ducting to "condition" colder air to a more temperate conditon when I am smoking in the winter months.

If you need to see what I did, I can give you the photobucket link to my work.

Would love the link if possible.

[PapaDisco]

Assume that you're going to need considerably more vent capacity than you think.  I concur that inline fans are great for maximizing flow and minimizing noise IF you have some place to tuck them away (ceiling, floor, etc.).  If all you've got is a through-wall option, you're going to have a lot of noise in your space.

In most venting applications I've had good experiences with Fantech inline fans, most of which can be run high or low, so if you spend the money to install and find you're not getting the flow you wanted you can still adjust the flow.

Also, if you're in a very cold climate think about using a heat exchanger so that the exiting air warms the incoming air.  You'll want to always keep a slight negative pressure in your Man Cave so that you're pulling air from the house, with the fresh air going into the house.  This is for an attached garage.  If, however, your garage is truly freestanding and you don't have a worry about smoke exchange with the house then just set up your heat exchanger so that the fresh air is going back into the garage.

I would be interested in hearing what your air volume is and what you think the right exchange/air flow should be.

[Phillys]

2 hours ago, tksamtec said:

Sounds like your setup is functional, but I designed a true smoking lounge without having to see fans, ductwork or ventilation equipment... your setup is just a huge 4x6 fan hood sucking smoke away from an area.

Right now it's just a mock up to test the system. The basics of the setup is a bit like you, as the exhaust fan, ductwork and air filtered inlet are hidden. Noise output is very low and air is moving considerably. My setup is not sealed, although the room is sort of in a separate area of the basement, it does work well and going to look good once finished. 

Currently making the finished hood, it's sort of integrated, you won't really notice it's there once installed. 

Would love to see your setup. 

 

 

 

 

[tksamtec]

12 hours ago, BellevilleMXZ said:

Would love the link if possible.

https://beta.photobucket.com/u/tksamtec/a/83c2c2d3-9971-4086-a19f-6118f47cfc94
https://beta.photobucket.com/u/tksamtec/a/1bbf7ae1-82d8-4b9f-b593-1623d2e60799

1 link is to the finished cigar lounge/room, the other link is the remainder of the finished basement, where you can see the finished and closed in equipment room in the back corner by the bar.

11 hours ago, PapaDisco said:

Also, if you're in a very cold climate think about using a heat exchanger so that the exiting air warms the incoming air.  You'll want to always keep a slight negative pressure in your Man Cave so that you're pulling air from the house, with the fresh air going into the house.  This is for an attached garage.  If, however, your garage is truly freestanding and you don't have a worry about smoke exchange with the house then just set up your heat exchanger so that the fresh air is going back into the garage.

I have a 14kV heater to condition my incoming fresh air (I believe its 220/70A) that I wired to a seperate 100A sub-panel for the room.  I have no need to cool the air coming in as my basement is typically on the cool side, year around, and in the summer, its usually 62-65 degrees down there (F), so sitting in the room for a couple hours in 80+ summer temps will warm it up to the 70s, but I really don't smoke much down there in the summer months, when I try to smoke outside or on the golf course.

[bsubtown]

Some cities and counties near me require make-up air if there is external ventilation above a certain CFM. That is why you can find many vent fans rated at 390 CFM just under the 400 CFM rating that would require make-up air. YMMV and it probably does not matter if you are doing the work yourself.  

[habana 94]

I have been toying with the idea of a ERV (Energy Recovery Ventilator) for my heated and air conditioned attached garage. Up until now i have to open the garage door for ventilation, but this is challenging in the Chicago winters/summers. A straight exhaust fan would un-condition the area pretty quickly, which is why i am looking at an ERV.  

What I seem to be stuck on most, is the amount of CFM needed to keep up with a couple of cigars.  

if anyone has any experience, or knows if ERV's work, please let me know. 

[tksamtec]

2 hours ago, habana 94 said:

I have been toying with the idea of a ERV (Energy Recovery Ventilator) for my heated and air conditioned attached garage. Up until now i have to open the garage door for ventilation, but this is challenging in the Chicago winters/summers. A straight exhaust fan would un-condition the area pretty quickly, which is why i am looking at an ERV.  

What I seem to be stuck on most, is the amount of CFM needed to keep up with a couple of cigars.  

if anyone has any experience, or knows if ERV's work, please let me know. 

For my setup, a 700cfm fan (blower/exchanger/squirrel cage type), and 2 8" ceiling ducts (maybe a 15 or 18 foot run to the outside vent)...for 2 people smoking cigars, the smoke is cleared pretty quickly (5-10 secs), but for 3 or 4 people, it takes maybe 10-20 seconds to suck away the smoke, depending on how heavily my friends are huffing.  Its never so smoky that you can't see the tv screen or have to claw through the room, as long as the vent/fan is on high.  When its just myself, I can run the fan on low to medium and still get very good dissipation of smoked up air.

[habana 94]

7 minutes ago, tksamtec said:

For my setup, a 700cfm fan (blower/exchanger/squirrel cage type), and 2 8" ceiling ducts (maybe a 15 or 18 foot run to the outside vent)...for 2 people smoking cigars, the smoke is cleared pretty quickly (5-10 secs), but for 3 or 4 people, it takes maybe 10-20 seconds to suck away the smoke, depending on how heavily my friends are huffing.  Its never so smoky that you can't see the tv screen or have to claw through the room, as long as the vent/fan is on high.  When its just myself, I can run the fan on low to medium and still get very good dissipation of smoked up air.

Sounds like 700 plus with a variable controller is the way to go.  

Just curios what is a "blower/exchanger/squirrel cage type" 

Thanks !!

[Sudzdaddy]

18 hours ago, PapaDisco said:

I would be interested in hearing what your air volume is and what you think the right exchange/air flow should be.

I went with a larger (1,500 cfm) Fantech on rheostat for a 320 sqft room,  System has not been run yet.

[Fuzz]

3 hours ago, habana 94 said:

Sounds like 700 plus with a variable controller is the way to go.  

Just curios what is a "blower/exchanger/squirrel cage type" 

Thanks !!

It is the right terminology....