BrightonCorgi Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 Are Regional blends different than standard production? I thought all Regional cigars use a different filler than Production cigars... The filler in Regional is what production cigars use to use; like pre '03 or something??? Is that the case?
RijkdeGooier Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 If you believe that .... I’ve a bridge for sale???? 1
BrightonCorgi Posted March 1, 2018 Author Posted March 1, 2018 I am pretty certain that is how the Regionals started as a difference to production cigars, similarly with the EL's using a different wrapper.
99call Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 sorry mate, I couldn't resist. I'm sure there will be a more knowledgable BOTL, that will shed a bit of light on this
NSXCIGAR Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 4 minutes ago, BrightonCorgi said: I am pretty certain that is how the Regionals started as a difference to production cigars, similarly with the EL's using a different wrapper. I've never heard of, read or seen any statement or acknowledgement by HSA or any other insider regarding the tobacco used for ERs. From personal experience, I can tell you that in the early days of the ER program (05-08) it was more likely the cigar would not align with the marcas' profile. I think that likelihood has steadily risen over time and recently it's highly probable that the cigar will represent the marca with many being standout examples of the marca. The Dip Bushido is a great example. It's like the best Dip 2 you've ever had. Everything the Dip 2 should be but rich from start to finish with perfect balance, complexity and construction. And Dip profile to the core. I also found the Dip Excelencia to be very true to the marca. But then you have a cigar like the SLR Marquez which I challenge anyone to place as an SLR. Maybe it's just youth, but to me it has very little in common with any regular production SLR.
BrightonCorgi Posted March 1, 2018 Author Posted March 1, 2018 36 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said: I've never heard of, read or seen any statement or acknowledgement by HSA or any other insider regarding the tobacco used for ERs. I thought there was a statement from Habanos on this around 2005 or earlier. Perhaps some threads on it at that time period too.
RijkdeGooier Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 OK a little more detail.... The process of choosing an ER as I’ve told by the importer. 1. Choose a marca and vitola (there is more to it but lets keep it simple) 2. Receive up-to 5 suggested blends and decide on the final blend and packaging. 3. Pay for at least 50,000 units (I believe) and wait a year or more. 4. Recieve batches of the cigar and roll-out. There is no special 2003 reserve of tobacco in this story. From a practical POV most ER’s I’ve smoked have a distinct young cigar taste when first released. Some become wonderful, some not so much. 2 1
Colt45 Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 1 hour ago, BrightonCorgi said: I am pretty certain that is how the Regionals started as a difference to production cigars, similarly with the EL's using a different wrapper. I think the main thing was that they were to be regular production sizes, but previously unused in a marque. So for example, the 2006 Ramon Allones Estupendo was a Julieta No.2 which was not a regular RA size. I've never heard / read much about blends per se, other than that the distributor footing the bill had a say in the final blend. Might you be thinking about the reserve series?
NSXCIGAR Posted March 2, 2018 Posted March 2, 2018 3 hours ago, Colt45 said: I think the main thing was that they were to be regular production sizes, but previously unused in a marque Doubt that as the PL Lonsdales were an 06 release.
El Presidente Posted March 2, 2018 Posted March 2, 2018 No special tobacco is used for the Regional Editions. It's all about special sizes and special blends. The blend is chosen from a selection put together by Tabacuba (working in with the blender). They try to limit two regions releasing the same cigar (marque and size) within a period of time. However is say the Andes distributor wanted to release a Ramon Allones Celestiales Finos then the blend will be matched to the PCC original as much as possible. That is how it was explained to me.
Fugu Posted March 2, 2018 Posted March 2, 2018 4 hours ago, Colt45 said: I think the main thing was that they were to be regular production sizes, but previously unused in a marque. that would be the anejados program.... The Regionals are meant to be true to the marca (and most are, in my experience from what I've smoked). But it's hard to find any written facts on that. As Colt sais, the importer has a say in the final blend. That is not at all surprising, as every format, also those of the standard vitolario - of course - has a slightly different blend, e.g. to make up for girth differences. I once heard a statement from a distributor's representative saying something along the lines of "we tweaked the blend with a slight bit more ligero to give it more strength." So it's basically the marca's blend in a special (or not so special) format. What's really being done, I guess even the local distributors can't be sure about.... 1
canadianbeaver Posted March 2, 2018 Posted March 2, 2018 When we were first hooked in the special Cuban cigar collection thing and learning all about them, we were also travelling to so many wonderful places. We would find boxes of Regional Cubans and bring them home. Also buy special ones online from all over the world including Italy, Israel, Spain and Cuba. We then decided we were more interested in certain brands, with time on them. We put them away for more time and only magnificent smoke or put it aside. Hey. Our thing. Two regional places still make us happy. Canadian and Italy. Do not know why. And tons of LE’s. Whatever makes us say mmmmmmmm. CB
LGC Posted March 2, 2018 Posted March 2, 2018 Essentially... it seems the paid premium is attributed to the different vitola , double bands, special packaging, and whatever blend ends up going into the cigar. The aged tobacco is reserved for the Reservas and GRs... and super special Añejados. 1
BrightonCorgi Posted March 2, 2018 Author Posted March 2, 2018 9 hours ago, Brandon said: The aged tobacco is reserved for the Reservas and GRs... and super special Añejados. What was the strain of tobacco used for the filler pre 2003 or so?
Fugu Posted March 2, 2018 Posted March 2, 2018 16 minutes ago, BrightonCorgi said: What was the strain of tobacco used for the filler pre 2003 or so? Havana '92, and later Criollo '98 (....and before 1995: original Criollo)
BrightonCorgi Posted March 2, 2018 Author Posted March 2, 2018 Just now, Fugu said: Havana '92, and later Criollo '98 Are those strains currently used in any cigars? What I was told years ago that Regionals were using one of those fillers to differentiate them from current production cigars. Those strains were used in production cigars, they could be in essence considered no different than production cigars perhaps?
Fugu Posted March 2, 2018 Posted March 2, 2018 4 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said: Are those strains currently used in any cigars? Nope (= according to available official info, that is) 4 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said: What I was told years ago that Regionals were using one of those fillers to differentiate them from current production cigars. Any verifyiable info on that? I'd rather put such down to fairy tale. And mind you - the Regional program only started out in 20065....
BrightonCorgi Posted March 2, 2018 Author Posted March 2, 2018 Just now, Fugu said: Nope (= according to available official info, that is) Any verifyiable info on that? I'd rather put such down on fairy tale. And mind you - the Regional program only started out in 2006.... I have been looking for something to no avail. It was actually the Criollo filler that I was told was used in Regionals...
NSXCIGAR Posted March 2, 2018 Posted March 2, 2018 20 hours ago, Fugu said: What's really being done, I guess even the local distributors can't be sure about.... No, I'm sure they often don't. I'm sure the distributors can request whatever they want but what they get is what they get. They probably have to select the lesser of the 4 or 5 evils often when presented with the finished blend choices. What's more intriguing to me is the blends for the Edmundo Dantes and La Escepcion. This tobacco doesn't seem to be going into anything else. Lots of questions about these. Did the distributor request a unique blend or was this offered by HSA? Coming up with an entire marca profile is pretty difficult. Would love to know the backstory on those. Only 150,000 sticks of both LE models and 110,000 sticks of the three ED models that are completely unique in profile to any other CC. Fascinating. 8 hours ago, Fugu said: Havana '92, and later Criollo '98 (....and before 1995: original Criollo) AFAIK Criollo 98 may still be in some use for filler along with Corojo 99 for wrapper. Also, I believe Habana Vuelta Arriba and Sancti Spiritus 96 were also being used in filler up through the early 2000s.
Fugu Posted March 2, 2018 Posted March 2, 2018 1 hour ago, NSXCIGAR said: What's more intriguing to me is the blends for the Edmundo Dantes and La Escepcion. This tobacco doesn't seem to be going into anything else. My take on it is this: Regionals may be lucky and get those few "special" bales into the making of such a limited run of a ~60.000-unit production that Regionals tend to be. Bales that perhaps couldn't be used otherwise, a particular one-off selection (e.g. because the Party Connies are not being done anymore.... ), or tobacco that may have even been set aside for the purpose. When that's gone it's gone. But that's all mere speculation and the effect could already be brought about by pure chance due to a particularly good harvest, special tobacco quality of certain years. That's the nice thing about special eds: They don't need to care much about replication and consistency, since it's a one-off production (mostly). I think that is the likely explanation for the observation that some regional editions have been standouts among their respective marcas or have even deviated to a decent extent from the core of the brand. But there also is another effect I am seeing and that is simple synchrony and "traceability": While temporary quality or sensory "bumps" will always be more obscure and become hidden within background noise in the continuous flow of regular production, a certain standout production lot will always be more conspicuous in special editions such as Regionals.
El Presidente Posted March 3, 2018 Posted March 3, 2018 10 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said: Are those strains currently used in any cigars? What I was told years ago that Regionals were using one of those fillers to differentiate them from current production cigars. Those strains were used in production cigars, they could be in essence considered no different than production cigars perhaps? Fake News .......in its true sense 2
El Presidente Posted March 3, 2018 Posted March 3, 2018 55 minutes ago, Fugu said: the likely explanation for the observation that some regional editions have been standouts among their respective marcas The level of excellence of a Regional Release is attributeable to three things only. 1. The level of distributor ambition to develop something special. 2. The level of involvement by the distributor in the execution of their ambition. Will they accept anything put forward or will they say "thats not quite what i had in mind....lets try again going in this direction" 3. Luck It is mostly 1& 2 where the distrbutors representatives involved are true cigar people and not just marketing people who happen (hopefully) to smoke cigars.
NSXCIGAR Posted March 3, 2018 Posted March 3, 2018 1 hour ago, Fugu said: My take on it is this: Regionals may be lucky and get those few "special" bales into the making of such a limited run of a ~60.000-unit production that Regionals tend to be. Bales that perhaps couldn't be used otherwise, a particular one-off selection (e.g. because the Party Connies are not being done anymore.... ), or tobacco that may have even been set aside for the purpose. When that's gone it's gone. But that's all mere speculation and the effect could already be brought about by pure chance due to a particularly good harvest, special tobacco quality of certain years. That's the nice thing about special eds: They don't need to care much about replication and consistency, since it's a one-off production (mostly). It's very interesting nonetheless, particularly in the case of the Edmundo Dantes which seem to have a very consistent profile through all three releases, although some are saying the 109 and the 54 are more similar than the Belicosos. So we have the first batch of only 30,000 sticks in 07-08. Then another 25,000 sticks in 11, followed by 60,000 sticks (of a smaller vitola) in 16. Very small numbers, relatively speaking and only every 4-5 years. This must be a very small experimental strain and/or growing area to only produce only enough tobacco for an average of 10,000 sticks per year. Very small. I find it difficult to believe this is only being planted every 4 years so it's possible that much of the tobacco in the EDs is set aside and consequently has several years of age before being rolled which would seem to be consistent with the marca's high quality and little signs of youth. I suppose La Escepcion is similar in this regard, but the releases have been much larger and closer together--150,000 sticks in 11 and 15. How many of these experiments does HSA have going? Did Diadema and IEPT go to HSA asking for this and they happened to have it or did HSA go to these distributors and inform them? I know someone who knows Max Gutman and IEPT fairly well--I should ask if he has any insights into the origination and development of the ED marca. Don't get me wrong--I am happy these cigars get released, and I suppose with such limited numbers and infrequent releases the ER program is the most practical way to release them. Luckily, I have access to Mexico but most don't and Italy is tough as well. This really limits the availability of these, particularly when it's an entire brand like ED and LE. Maybe intentional as these regions aren't that suited to international retail and so will have some retention of supply?
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