Aging Question for a Newbie

[tbaure]

Good morning FoH!

New to the forum and cigars in general. I'm currently a US Navy Sailor on deployment and I've developed a taste for cubans after smoking some nice Cohibas, Hoyo de Monterrey, and Monticristos during a port visit to Dubai. Since then I've been obsessed - building my Cuban collection back home over the past few months and one thing I'm discovering is that like fine wine, cigars, Cubans in particular get better with age. I can throw all the money I want at my collection, but that means nothing if i have no actual knowledge of them. My questions to the FoH collective mind is - what is the optimal aging time for cuban cigars? Is there a min/max age before the cigar is still enjoyable? Do different brands require different aging times to be in peak shape? Any other beginner tips would be much appreciated as well.

 

Thanks!

[madandana]

Others will answer your questions but I wanted to thank you for serving and welcome to the forum.

[CrankYanker]

I am a beginner like you. I used to always try one right when they arrive. Now I let them rest for 30 days then try one and see what my thoughts are. If I like it I'll smoke another in 30 days. If I don't I'll put it away for 6 months and try it again. 

[CaptainQuintero]

  It used to be that Cubans needed years after rolling for the ammonia to dissipate, but things have rapidly improved since then. Generally now a lot of Cubans are going to give you a good smoking experience right out of the box, that's not to say there isn't any improvement to be had. You'll generally see an improvement in balance after a year and things will steadily improve from then.

Cigars coming by post I find need to be given 3 months to come around from the journey. I don't know if it's shock or quick changes in temp and humidity but I've had almost no good smoking experiences if I try straight away, I usually leave 6 months to be honest. 

 3-5 years is probably where most Cubans have settled down and be pretty much the finished article, personally I think 5-8 years is a good spot for most Cubans but each marca is different and it's down to personal taste at the end of the day. I love Partagas from 7/8 years on, the leather develops into a really sweet cream. I try not to touch Montecristo until year 6 as I find that a fruity vanilla/raisin core has developed by then. But I love por Larranaga as fresh as they come.

 Aged cigars do come with a premium price so a plan some people have is to smoke half of your supply of a certain cigar (be it a box or a 5er) and then put the second half away and try one every couple of years and see how you like them. You may not even like aged cigars!

 Getting into cigars usually means buying more then you can smoke, at which point aging is happening without it being planned, so you'll find yourself with some eventually too.

 Flavour wise, in general I find leather and earthy notes tends to fade and cream and fruit tends to come in. Balance becomes more prominent and harsh notes dissipate. But if you like big punchy in-your-face flavour bombs, that side of things settle down and mostly fade with age as the cigars become more balanced 

[Eric05]

Hey brother! Welcome!! First off thank you for your service. That's first and foremost. As far as aging cigars. It's all time. Most cigars(cubans) need some age. Proper storing is 63-65% I rather store in boxes then singles. And just let them sit. Its also all about having a proper storing system as well. If your going to do a humidor. Then just let the singles sit. Some people have a smoking humidor and a aging humidor. You should always have a go to cigar. Maybe a PSD4 happens to be a great smoke, quick. 

[stogieluver]

Thanks for your service, Sailor. 

Good advice above.  Some more...store in the low 60's rH (at 70dF), and don't get all caught up in not smoking from your collection just because they haven't reached some mythical age.  True that most CC's will improve with age.  True that most CC's will need some acclimation time, usually 60-90 days, in your low 60's rH humi, after receipt in the mail.  But there are always exceptions, so don't be afraid to try one ROTT (right off the truck), and smoke some of your stock along the way here and there, keeping most in the box to age. 

One method I use is to find a cheap and cheerful marca/vitola or two to use as your daily smoke.  One or two that you find really enjoyable enough to keep you away from your better stock that you're aging.

[Colt45]

5 hours ago, tbaure said:

I can throw all the money I want at my collection, but that means nothing if i have no actual knowledge of them. 

Any other beginner tips would be much appreciated as well.

My first thought would be to spend some time smoking different cigars and finding out what you like before committing to storing away boxes long term.

Have fun 

[Fugu]

Welcome to the forum @tbaure. Like others here, I'd say, today, it is basically a matter of taste. Also, I wouldn't as much speak of an "improvement" as rather of a change or transition. The taste profile will undeniably change over time. More pronounced in some cigars than in others. But what you prefer or whether you perhaps even like both is a matter of your personal preference. E.g. unlike the Captain, I prefer Larranaga well-aged, while I like e.g. Bolívar as much aged as I enjoy most vitolas young. Try out for yourself as much as you can.

And also to keep in mind, like cigars, your taste will develop as well... Happy smokes! 

[Danimalia]

2 hours ago, CaptainQuintero said:

  It used to be that Cubans needed years after rolling for the ammonia to dissipate, but things have rapidly improved since then. Generally now a lot of Cubans are going to give you a good smoking experience right out of the box, that's not to say there isn't any improvement to be had. You'll generally see an improvement in balance after a year and things will steadily improve from then.

Cigars coming by post I find need to be given 3 months to come around from the journey. I don't know if it's shock or quick changes in temp and humidity but I've had almost no good smoking experiences if I try straight away, I usually leave 6 months to be honest. 

 3-5 years is probably where most Cubans have settled down and be pretty much the finished article, personally I think 5-8 years is a good spot for most Cubans but each marca is different and it's down to personal taste at the end of the day. I love Partagas from 7/8 years on, the leather develops into a really sweet cream. I try not to touch Montecristo until year 6 as I find that a fruity vanilla/raisin core has developed by then. But I love por Larranaga as fresh as they come.

 Aged cigars do come with a premium price so a plan some people have is to smoke half of your supply of a certain cigar (be it a box or a 5er) and then put the second half away and try one every couple of years and see how you like them. You may not even like aged cigars!

 Getting into cigars usually means buying more then you can smoke, at which point aging is happening without it being planned, so you'll find yourself with some eventually too.

 Flavour wise, in general I find leather and earthy notes tends to fade and cream and fruit tends to come in. Balance becomes more prominent and harsh notes dissipate. But if you like big punchy in-your-face flavour bombs, that side of things settle down and mostly fade with age as the cigars become more balanced 

The Captain of Quintero has a lot of great advice here. Like you, I'm a bit of a noob. I've been smoking cigars for 10+ years, but I've only gotten serious about Cubans in the past 18 months. But I have smoked a decent amount of Cubans, aged and fresh over the years. I think I prefer my cigars on the younger side. Obviously, it depends on the marca, the specific cigar, and, hell, probably even the individual box, but I like the vibrancy of young cigars. I've been trying to do that the Captain suggests. If I buy a box and enjoy them, I am trying to save 10-12 to keep for the longer term. I'll then try them every 6 months to a year and try to see if there is any particular sweet spot. 

I also enjoy non-Cubans, so I mix in plenty of those as well. That keeps me from diving too deeply, too quickly into my Habanos. 

1 hour ago, stogieluver said:

One method I use is to find a cheap and cheerful marca/vitola or two to use as your daily smoke.  One or two that you find really enjoyable enough to keep you away from your better stock that you're aging.

I think this is great advice as well. And I've heard from forum members that this is kind of a golden age for the cheaper sticks. Everything is handmade now, and cigars like the PL Montecarlo, Upmann Majestic, and several of the cheaper Partys (Super Partagas, Mille Fleurs, PCEs) are well-regarded. I have personal experience with the first 2, and can say they deliver exceptional value. 

[PigFish]

Welcome to the forum.

Thank you for your service.

I believe that cigar aging is a bane to the neophyte smoker. Smokers, dying to get into the fray attempt to emulate others, some not on their same level, some just out to lunch.

Experience cigars on your own. Don't try to jump into a pit of hearsay, bias and inflated ego... Cigars are personal. They need not be collected or aged, expensive or fat, just appreciated by the smoker.

I belive (here comes the opinions from the inflated egos) that cigars simply need to be kept at a place where you (one) enjoys smoking them. That really is all you can do. Buy some cigars, try some cigars, buy some more so you can sit on a few and continue smoking. You cannot shortcut the experience, and why would you? It is the experience that makes you know what is good and what is not. It won't be learned from any text or forum... It is an empirical, first hand endeavor.

Welcome again to FoH. Welcome to the fight.

-Piggy

[PapaDisco]

Captain Q and Stogie Lover nailed it.  CC's are now rolled with tobacco that's been fermented/aged for a couple to 5 years, and so everything is smokable ROTB (Right Off The Boat!).  What my feeble palate notices is that CC's rolled in the last year will show their youth particularly in the last third; and a more sophisticated cigar lover would be able to discern nuances in flavors all the way through, however 3-5 years down almost always consistently improves every stick.  If you want to go super long, like 10-20 years, then get a good, temperature stable setup (cellar) and review the postings of guys like Nino (Nino's Flying Cigar) for tips on shrink wrapping or plastic wrapping your LT stock.

If you're taking a selection of sticks on deployment with you, think about the temperature where they will be resting and adjust your rH accordingly.  For 70F you want a higher rH and for 50F you want a lower rH.  If your locker is next to the hull and chilly (50F) then get 60rH or 55rH Bovedas.  Use a watertight tupperdore with a good seal and your Bovedas will easily last 6 months - 1 year.

 

[prodigy]

Captain Q and Stogie Lover nailed it.  CC's are now rolled with tobacco that's been fermented/aged for a couple to 5 years, and so everything is smokable ROTB (Right Off The Boat!).  What my feeble palate notices is that CC's rolled in the last year will show their youth particularly in the last third; and a more sophisticated cigar lover would be able to discern nuances in flavors all the way through, however 3-5 years down almost always consistently improves every stick.  If you want to go super long, like 10-20 years, then get a good, temperature stable setup (cellar) and review the postings of guys like Nino (Nino's Flying Cigar) for tips on shrink wrapping or plastic wrapping your LT stock.
If you're taking a selection of sticks on deployment with you, think about the temperature where they will be resting and adjust your rH accordingly.  For 70F you want a higher rH and for 50F you want a lower rH.  If your locker is next to the hull and chilly (50F) then get 60rH or 55rH Bovedas.  Use a watertight tupperdore with a good seal and your Bovedas will easily last 6 months - 1 year.
 

I think you have your explanation of rH wrong. The colder the temp, the less water molecules, which would mean you need a higher Rh to hit the same percent moisture content. Please let me know if I'm wrong, I don't want to spread false information. It's possible I've learned it wrong this whole time.

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[Sean3]

Welcome aboard...Spent time in the Persian Gulf myself on board USS CALLAGHAN DDG-994, but it was way back in the late '80's, doing escort duty.  Abu Dhabi and United Arab Emerites were the main stops in the Gulf back then.  As to your question about aging, it's all relative to your taste.  As a general practice, I let ALL cigars rest in my humidor for 45 days minimum in order to acclimate to the environment of the humidor.  Beyond this acclimatization period, you'll have to experiment and figure out what you like.  I've found some cigars are great right off the truck (ROTT), others required a couple years before really hitting their stride, and even others that became stunning with 8+ years of age on them.  It's all part of the fun!  Good to see another sailor on the forum.  Cheers.

[PapaDisco]

3 hours ago, prodigy said:

I think you have your explanation of rH wrong. The colder the temp, the less water molecules, which would mean you need a higher Rh to hit the same percent moisture content. Please let me know if I'm wrong, I don't want to spread false information. It's possible I've learned it wrong this whole time.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
 

The colder the temp the less water molecules in the air, but your cigars will retain a higher water content.  El Piggly can explain it better than I, but a rough sketch is thus:  cigars and air absorb and emit water differently, so while our personal experience is that things get drier as they get colder, that experience only relates to the air around us.  If you have a ziplock of cigars and air at 65rH and 65F and you leave that ziplock in the sun so it heats up to 80F, the cigars will give off water to the air.  If you now cool the bag to 50F, as the air loses the energy to hold H2O the cigars will absorb it and their water content will go up.

So if you store really cool, like in your wine cellar you generally want to lower the rH surrounding your cigars,  IIRC.    

[dicko]

Welcome to the forum which is a wealth of knowledge just look at some of the great answers in this thread already.

I have a question for you are you allowed to smoke on the ship? There must be other cigar smokers on board you could have a herf

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[tbaure]

On 11/25/2017 at 5:00 PM, dicko said:

I have a question for you are you allowed to smoke on the ship? There must be other cigar smokers on board you could have a herf   

We for sure get to smoke on board. In many ways the Navy runs off of tobacco (in all forms) and coffee. On my ship we have a solid group of people that are avid cigar smokers. We usually meet up after lunch or during the sunset out at sea and light one up. Matter of fact, a good friend of mine from the ship has been a member of this forum for a while and he's the one that put me on.

 

As far as the advice i really appreciate all of the well thought out replies. Thank you guys very much. FoH never dissapoints.

[dicko]

12 hours ago, tbaure said:

We for sure get to smoke on board. In many ways the Navy runs off of tobacco (in all forms) and coffee. On my ship we have a solid group of people that are avid cigar smokers. We usually meet up after lunch or during the sunset out at sea and light one up. Matter of fact, a good friend of mine from the ship has been a member of this forum for a while and he's the one that put me on.

 

That's cool mate