Cohiba "seconds"

[Stogieninja]

 

I searched the forum, and didn't see anything on the topic.

What I'm interested in learning is what Habanos does do with cigars that fail quality control. Do they just get thrown into the box anyway? Do they get filtered out to the black market? Are they saved for the Anejado program?

Does anyone have any insight?

(Note: I have edited my post to remove distracting content.)

[Jimmy_jack]

I believe this has been discussed before. My understanding from those conversations is Behike seconds would be re-rolled. The tobacco is to valuable to send out the door as seconds.

Regular production seconds are spread among the population.

Again, what I've read and I could be wrong.


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[wabashcr]

Here is the thread that discussed this particular seller recently.  It kinda touches on your question as well, although not fully.

 

[NickO01]

Here is the thread that discussed this particular seller recently.  It kinda touches on your question as well, although not fully.

 

You forgot to add the link.

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[wabashcr]

12 minutes ago, NickO01 said:

You forgot to add the link.

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk
 

When you link to a prior thread, the forum software converts the link to something that apparently Tapatalk doesn't pick up.  Afraid you'll have to go to the desktop version (or at least a mobile browser version) to see it.  Sorry.

[AlohaStyle]

1 hour ago, Stogieninja said:

 Are they saved for the Anejado program?

 

 

That's a great guess, lol. 

[NSXCIGAR]

1 hour ago, Stogieninja said:

...Are they saved for the Anejado program?

If only, my friend. If only...

[Dmpotocek]

Also, Habanos employees get a certain amount of cigars a day. I think it's 5. Probably what happens to a lot of the rejections.


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[CaptainQuintero]

From my understanding there are no Cuban seconds. Everything goes through quality checking and if a cigar fails then it is rerolled. If it is a certain roller numerous times then his/her whole days work is rechecked and rerolled if needed.

The plugs, windtunnels, underfilled, bad blends that we see are impossibilities because everything goes through rigourous quality checks. So the can be no such thing as seconds.

 

[ChampagneInHand]

That was really funny. I've been down to quite a few islands and tobacco growing regions. Hell I even went to Nica, although I didn't get as far through that as I had wanted...

These are just my thoughts. Much tobacco is grown. Islands are so much closer than those of us in the states that drive hours and hours and are still in the same state.

Boats are plentiful. Many docks exist on every bit of coastline. Neither Cuba, the DR, Jamaica, Nica, Honduras or smaller islands that may have small tobacco farms, not to mention out going boats from the USA get frisked at every dock, small town...

Lies are the norm in most of the islands, be it d*ck size, what you earn, who you know, what you do legit and what you don't.

In Nica it seems as if everybody is more concerned about boxes and pretty stickers as much as some cigars especially in the loads of small tabacaleras that dot the different cities and I haven't been out amongst the rural farms with loads of barns at farms. Getting decent printing from Asia or Europe is pretty easy.

I wouldn't for the slightest moment think that it would be above anybody trying to make a few bucks to cash in on a poor tobacco crop in Cuba, to import/smuggle in larger leaf tobacco that reasonably could be cured in a barn somewhere on a farm and pass it off as Cuban tobacco.

Let's not be too gullible as they have sold fake iPhones, Watches that run in the tens of thousands of dollars, wine that was mixed from different sources and then crafted with old paper, print machines and custom corks gone through the aging process, then tasted by reputable experts and connoisseurs and then sold at auction houses for hundreds of thousands and the only reason they get caught is that they crossed the wrong billionaire.

This certainly could happen with premium cigars.

There's a great book called billionaires vinegar out there. You can read the basics of Rudy K selling Jeffersonian Bordeaux to one of the Koch bros and having tat same guy go berserk after finding out he was scamned.

It happens all over the islands.

If you go to YouTube you can find blind tastings in wines to whisky, where even the best palates can be way off on the origins and these people aren't basic but considered experts in their field.


In the end if you like the product and the price then you shouldn't freak out if you find you were scammed. Anything not bought at an Authorized Dealer needs heavy scrutiny. Even some shady stuff makes it into famous auctions and of course throughout the internet.


I'm just settings bit of world reality in here. Illicit drugs get watered down all the time and that's a world where life and death of everybody you love is on the line. It's nothing to try and scam the average guy.


Just my humble $0.02.


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[Chuckmejia]

If there were in fact cohiba seconds.... why are we only seeing them from this one individual?

 

 

[Stogieninja]

If there were in fact cohiba seconds.... why are we only seeing them from this one individual?

Agreed, it just got me wondering about the cigars that actually failed quality control.

[cigaraholic]

Quality control and Cuban cigars are words that don't belong in the same sentence these days.

[Smallclub]

7 hours ago, Jimmy_jack said:

I believe this has been discussed before. My understanding from those conversations is Behike seconds would be re-rolled. The tobacco is to valuable to send out the door as seconds.

Regular production seconds are spread among the population.

There are no "behike seconds", and not even regular production seconds. The cigars that fail quality control are disassembled then re-rolled.

No cigars are "spread among the population", I'd be curious to know who told you such a fantasy…

The concept of "seconds" comes from the NC industry, it doesn't exist in Cuba.

[polarbear]

I remember reading that when cigar rollers are still in training, any cigars they roll are checked for quality and then shredded to make filler for Cohiba and Uppman Cigarettes
I'm not sure how true this is and if it is true, and I imagine the trainee rollers aren't being given Cohiba grade cigar leaf to practise on but its interesting all the same

[Jimmy_jack]

14 minutes ago, Smallclub said:

There are no "behike seconds", and not even regular production seconds. The cigars that fail quality control are disassembled then re-rolled.

No cigars are "spread among the population", I'd be curious to know who told you such a fantasy…

The concept of "seconds" comes from the NC industry, it doesn't exist in Cuba.

Something I read during a similar conversation/thread. That's why I said I could be wrong. As I guessed, it looks like I am

[Smallclub]

3 minutes ago, polarbear said:

 shredded to make filler for Cohiba and Uppman Cigarettes
I'm not sure how true this is and if it is true, and I imagine the trainee rollers aren't being given Cohiba grade cigar leaf to practise on but its interesting all the same

You believe Cohiba cigarettes are made with Cohiba grade leaves? Come on…

[polarbear]

1 minute ago, Smallclub said:

You believe Cohiba cigarettes are made with Cohiba grade leaves? Come on…

No, I don't believe that
"I imagine the trainee rollers aren't being given Cohiba grade cigar leaf to practise on"

[earthson]

12 hours ago, Chuckmejia said:

If there were in fact cohiba seconds.... why are we only seeing them from this one individual?

 

Haha - the crux of the biscuit!

This is what led me to stop purchasing from this individual.  There is no way they are slinging seconds; what is more likely is that a) he has a friend in the factory stealing production cigars, b.) he has a friend stealing production tobacco to roll for his special order, or c) the whole thing is a fanciful tale meant to justify charging so much for custom blends.

To me, the "Behike seconds" don't taste like a Behike at all; the few I had tasted like your average Cuban farm roll.

Moreover, when I googled this person, I found he had been in court for, if I remember right, fraud (not cigar related).

All in all, I think he mixes fact with fiction with respect to provenance.  He demands you pay for 75% of your order before he even has the cigars in hand.  And the fact that he doesn't communicate and often forgets to send people their cigars all leads to a big, fat PASS from me.  Been there, done that.  After having to threaten to report him to lapyap just to get a refund on sticks he owed me for 2 months (with zero communication), I'm over it.

After trying most of what's out there, I stick to regular production.

[Ninja]

4 hours ago, earthson said:

Haha - the crux of the biscuit!

Moreover, when I googled this person, I found he had been in court for, if I remember right, fraud (not cigar related).

All in all, I think he mixes fact with fiction with respect to provenance.  He demands you pay for 75% of your order before he even has the cigars in hand.  And the fact that he doesn't communicate and often forgets to send people their cigars all leads to a big, fat PASS from me.  Been there, done that.  After having to threaten to report him to lapyap just to get a refund on sticks he owed me for 2 months (with zero communication), I'm over it.

 

OK Ron.

First, I will say that I don't post to these type of threads much because a) I find them interesting, b.) the people with questions never email me with questions and discussion, as I ask in my other posts to do so if you want details of provenance, c) I will not post details or explanations on public sites as I care about the people i work with there. That said, it is amazing to me that so may people do not understand that these boards are monitored from time to time, and things are often listed in a way that one would need to send an email for details "on purpose". And to reference some of the above posts...... there is a lot of misunderstanding about how Cuba works here.

But Ron, you have brought me to post because you have crossed a line. First I have not been to court for fraud. I am assuming that you are referring to an arbitration issue many years ago about the background you are wholly ignorant. To make such an accusation in such a manner is irresponsible and petty.

As for your refund and threaten to "report me", I have your email dated 2/16/16 that says something different. For background, not all sticks are available and sometimes rollers do not have cigars ready. Ron's were not ready at the end of december so they had to wait for my Feb trip. He said ok, but on 2/6/16, he requested a refund and asked me if I would do this directly or should he go through PP and that he did not want to do anything that would get me flagged. I responded same day (Sat.) and said I would take care of it after the weekend. On 2/9/19, I contacted you to say I did not use the refund option as you were 1 day past the 60 day rule on the day you first sent the request, so I simply sent the money F&F. After you claimed your money, you said it was in the account on 2/9/16.  (I can provide copies of all the emails)

I honestly can't figure out what lapyap is, but you asked for a refund, gave me a reason that you bought another box and didn't want to spend the money, and I sent you the money without issue. There is a reason that I use paypal goods and services and pay all the fees. I do not require F&F as so many others do, exactly for the refund reason. I have a couple people that send F&F cause they know I will take care of them, but never required or expected. That is why it is used.... to add protection for the buyer, which I have no issue doing.

As to communication, while reviewing our emails this morning, I do see that you emailed me 3 different times in Jan of last year for an update, and I did not respond. We talked at the first of Feb and discussed why I missed these emails and that I thought I responded, but that month of correspondence with you was lacking and is not my norm for a long time.

Interestingly, after all this, on 4/18/16 Ron contacted me asking to buy a couple bottles of rum.

So I do not know what the true intent of this post was, but I ask that you speak factually and not misrepresent things that you are ignorant of.

And as I have said many times to everyone, if you want to understand more of what I do first hand, come on down with me sometime. 

[KRunch61]

^^^NEVER had any issues ordering from Ninja. ALWAYS received quality sticks.^^^

[Stogieninja]

In retrospect, I should not have mentioned what brought me to my question. I did not intend for this to become a discussion about Dallas, and I apologize to him for having mentioned him as an aside. He has always given me great sticks, and I will continue to order from him because I enjoy the product I get from him quite a bit.

 

I simply was curious about what happens in general to stuff that does not pass quality control in Cuba.

[Lotusguy]

In retrospect, I should not have mentioned what brought me to my question. I did not intend for this to become a discussion about Dallas, and I apologize to him for having mentioned him as an aside. He has always given me great sticks, and I will continue to order from him because I enjoy the product I get from him quite a bit.

 

I simply was curious about what happens in general to stuff that does not pass quality control in Cuba.

That question was answered already. They get re-rolled.

[Stogieninja]

That question was answered already. They get re-rolled.

Thanks, I saw that. I was simply stating what my original intent was, and apologizing to Dallas for the extraneous comment I made in asking my question.

[Smallclub]

Who is Dallas? I got lost…