"They just taste different"

[El Presidente]

Cracker e-mail came to me mid week decrying the "new blend" for the Partagas D4. 

The conclusion was drawn that the new boxes sourced here and in Cuba just have different flavour profile. A little milder. A little too floral. 

I did have a chuckle at the request to find some new boxes with "old school" flavours.....as I pointed out that would require smoking a cigar (at least) from the proposed box 

For the record I haven't discerned any change to the D4 blend. On average it is much the same cigar since the early 00s. You just need to get good ones. 

I am drifting. 

Writing a review this morning for the Upmann Connie 1 (a favourite of mine) I was taken aback how it was medium full in body.  They have been for a while (16 stocks). I never found them to be in previous years (straight medium and even mild/medium but full flavoured). Far closer in body to the Juan Lopez seleccion number 2 (what a cracking cigar that has been of late). 

For those that know their way around Cuban cigars (and Non Cubans for that matter), what cigars have you found the most changes to (intentional or otherwise)? 

not that we see many these days but the Saint Luis Rey Serie A is such a cigar for me. They went from mild bodied and highly complex to Medium bodied and less complex (still exceptional) around 2013 (from memory). It was a distinct change. 

[Jimmy_jack]

I haven't enough experience to say. However, someone has said the VR profiles have changed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[shlomo]

Cazadores not as ferocious. Coro and Cola not as grassy at first. BHK what a joke.

[cybermadhatter]

IMHO

Unicos were not as rich overall for a while.  Like 04-11. 

Rass is more approachable young since around 06

RGpc more flavor since 13

psd4 more creamy since 06 and no longer sick and then notoriously sick again 

Famosos  flat from 08-14

punch punch more complex since 12 or so

ra extra originally had smooth boxes (codes, POL?) and harsh boxes  

Diplo 2 stronger since 08

[NSXCIGAR]

I would definitely draw a distinction between cigars that have improved and cigars that have changed. We should be talking about general trends in profile here, not things like "bland from 12-13 and then more flavorful". That's pretty much any cigar over the long term. I'm interested in trends over 10+ years. 

My take on the cigars and marcas that have changed in flavor and/or profile substantially since the early 2000s would be:

Juan Lopez S1 & S2 - much stronger since 13-14 than they ever had been before, even pre-99. 

Hoyo Epi 1 & 2 - much more of the creamy character and far less woodiness than in the past. I'd say woodiness isn't even really a primary characteristic of the Epis anymore. Woodiness may still be present in the Le Hoyos, but it's been awhile since I've had any. 

PSD4 - More creamy character than it had several years ago. 

Cohiba - less grassiness, especially in younger examples. I've noticed this since about 07. Also, many Cohibas, particularly the Lanceros and CE, don't smoke well fresh at all anymore. I recall some great fresh ones in 07-10

RyJ - for a very long time, the tropical fruitiness has been totally gone. The deeper fruit/cherry undertones can still be found, but the lighter fruit notes and tartness that RyJ had is not there anymore. A shame, as it was a brilliant flavor profile, and one of my favorites, particularly in the Ex4. Smoking an Ex 4 from 2003 or earlier was like eating a bowl of tropical fruit.

Trinidad - I don't recall the current "coffee and doughnut" profile existing until somewhat recently. It certainly wasn't there in the late 90s/early 2000s as far as I can recall. I actually like it, so no complaints.

[Duxnutz]

Interesting tidbit on the SLR Serie A. I have a cab from '08 and boxes several boxes '12-'14. I've moved some between various places but it would be fun to do a side by side sampling.

[99call]

I cant really call this a change in flavour or profile, as a the cigar is far to young in terms of it's heritage to really discern a shift in character, but OMG I got my ass handed to me yesterday by a Epicure Especial. 

So far out of this box of ten TOS SEP 15 they have not really delivered in the way I've heard many describe them i.e ultimate desert cigars, but they have delivered in a different way.  I'll clarify this by saying I've not had any other than this box. But these have lovely dark wrappers with a touch of rosado. 

Body so far has been medium,  flavours have included bitter dark powdery (touching on tannic and dry) cocoa. Paired with this almost savoury Mole style spiced chocolate, is My grandads old dunhill pipe tobacco. I find it really hard to describe the wonderful evocative smell of pipe tobacco. richly perfumed on one hand, but bloody strong on the other, in terms of oak and burnt molasses. 

Anyway as I ploughed into the final third, I was pretty embarrased to say, it was a bit too full on for me. 

In summary I think if you can get dark wrapper Epicure Especial, but them down for a good while (I am crap at doing this). 

[Smallclub]

The JL2 is now stronger but it has lost a good part of its complexity…

The Diplo 2 and the RG pc are much more flavorful than they used to be – seems like the creation of the RG Perlas has boosted the quality of the pc…

[godpheonix]

agree with the Juan Lopez S1 & S2 being stronger and the SLR Serie A as Rob mentioned. i have a box of the A from '14 and they seriously need some downtime before i smoke anymore.

[rhcolbert]

Trinidad.  The new flavor profiles don't remind me of anything that were in the 06-07 boxes I had purchased. 

Not a bad thing imo. I like the new flavors 

[cybermadhatter]

i think the blends changed more than once on some cigars, based on crop yields/quality, and also habanos sa spending more time on certain marcas or on certain R E 's.

the wide and petit churchills imho did not have to happen.  I think it took away from the short churchill being consistently good, and the short churchill was not even needed.

spend time on keeping the exhibicion 4 in 50 cabs, or on more production of the exhibicion 3.

And, comparing pre 98's to post 01's is not a parallel one as the wrappers changed, and many are more approachable young,  Personally, 99% of 2013s were extremely good, and I smoke over 1300 cigars a year.  for me that is a bold statement,  where they will be in 2018 or 2023 is anyone's guess.

 

 

[Stogieninja]

... I smoke over 1300 cigars a year.  

Holy smokes...

[cybermadhatter]

1 hour ago, Stogieninja said:

 

Holy smokes...

 

Yeah.  About four a day.  

[zeedubbya]

3 come to mind for me--The Short Churchill, D4, and Punch.  

1.) The Short Churchill used to be a fantastic cigar, but the ones I've had lately have been all over the place.  So inconsistent and mostly just bad.  I keep smoking from a 2014 box I have and keep hoping it is going to get better and it doesn't.  They're just bad.  Nothing like the ones closer to the original release.  

2.) D4-More experience with these than any other cigar.  I completely agree with @NSXCIGAR on the creamy assesment with an added touch of sweetness I don't recall being there.  10 year ago D4s were/are different.  The newer ones I have are really good but I don't get same experience as I used to.  

3.) Punch I feel has had a revolution of sorts.  Look at the results of the first blind cigar.  El Prez is so right, the Punch Punch now is very different than the PP of even 4 years ago. 

[planetary]

2 hours ago, zeedubbya said:

3.) Punch I feel has had a revolution of sorts.  Look at the results of the first blind cigar.  El Prez is so right, the Punch Punch now is very different than the PP of even 4 years ago. 

Revolution... Would you say Punch has enjoyed a resurgence in quality, or an overhaul in profile -- or do you mean something else?

[NSXCIGAR]

4 hours ago, zeedubbya said:

3 come to mind for me--The Short Churchill, D4, and Punch.  

1.) The Short Churchill used to be a fantastic cigar, but the ones I've had lately have been all over the place.  So inconsistent and mostly just bad.  I keep smoking from a 2014 box I have and keep hoping it is going to get better and it doesn't.  They're just bad.  Nothing like the ones closer to the original release.  

2.) D4-More experience with these than any other cigar.  I completely agree with @NSXCIGAR on the creamy assesment with an added touch of sweetness I don't recall being there.  10 year ago D4s were/are different.  The newer ones I have are really good but I don't get same experience as I used to.  

3.) Punch I feel has had a revolution of sorts.  Look at the results of the first blind cigar.  El Prez is so right, the Punch Punch now is very different than the PP of even 4 years ago. 

I still recall D4s from the 90s. Just absolute beasts. It has definitely become a much tamer crowd-pleaser. And consequently, it has apparently overtaken the Monte 4 to become the best-selling Havana cigar. But yes, this cigar has probably evolved the most in the last 20 years while still being a quality cigar, beginning with the 95/96 blend changes.

I must say, this tobacco that is generating the "creamy" flavor (or texture as some describe it) must be very plentiful, and I believe was definitely one of the most prominent results of the new strains over the last decade or so. They've just pumped HdM and the PSD4 full of it, along with a few other marcas. An awful lot of Epi 1/2 and PSD4 are made--probably 20 or 30 million sticks per year of the three so they must have an enormous amount of this tobacco.

My take on the Punch Punch is a bit different in that I categorize it as more of an improvement rather than a change, at least at this point. I just think PP was simply crap for over a decade, and is now coming back to a quality product. I smoked some truly rancid PP from 04-13. But recent PP is, I think, fairly true to some of the old ones--woodiness, tanginess, some leather. So my position on the PP is that it has simply come back to form for the most part.

[zeedubbya]

12 hours ago, planetary said:

Revolution... Would you say Punch has enjoyed a resurgence in quality, or an overhaul in profile -- or do you mean something else?

I put together a big explanation of where I am coming from on this but decided to scrap it in favor of saying this.  My experience with the Punch marca when I started smoking cigars is vastly different from now.  I attribute a lot of this to the the time I started around 2001-2002.   I recall some really hideous Punch.  Ugly, poor construction, flat boring taste, a few were just ok.  The only Punch I recall liking was the Ninfas.  But in last 10 years they seem to have become excellent again.  I have been gifted a handful of Punch SS1, SS2, RS11 from that era lately and they've been excellent so maybe it was just aging.  Maybe they needed to age to get better.  Or maybe my tastes changed.  I know there's a lot of Punch fans out there, but I stayed away from them up until recently because of previous poor experiences.  

[NSXCIGAR]

3 hours ago, zeedubbya said:

I put together a big explanation of where I am coming from on this but decided to scrap it in favor of saying this.  My experience with the Punch marca when I started smoking cigars is vastly different from now.  I attribute a lot of this to the the time I started around 2001-2002.   I recall some really hideous Punch.  Ugly, poor construction, flat boring taste, a few were just ok.  The only Punch I recall liking was the Ninfas.  But in last 10 years they seem to have become excellent again.  I have been gifted a handful of Punch SS1, SS2, RS11 from that era lately and they've been excellent so maybe it was just aging.  Maybe they needed to age to get better.  Or maybe my tastes changed.  I know there's a lot of Punch fans out there, but I stayed away from them up until recently because of previous poor experiences.  

I agree with most of this. The only thing I'd say is that I'm not 100% sure what quality of Punch that was around in 01-02. It was a long time ago now, and I recall some were good, some were bad. 03 did see some great Punch pop up, but that was the one outlier year (for many cigars). The Ninfas seemed to always be great, and I miss them dearly, BTW. 

But I just think Punch Punch specifically didn't do well in the 2000 transition and never really recovered from it until 2013. Again, it had been so long since I've had a good PP (one or two around 03?) that it's hard for me to assign it any "change" as it had just been rancid crap for so long it couldn't even be assessed. I think at this point, I just have to categorize it as a recovery or improvement rather than a change in blend or profile. Again, it seems to me that the recent PP does remind me very much of the last PPs I had that were decent in the early 2000s.

It's funny, I still recall the shock at hearing that the BP and SS1 were going to be cut simultaneously leaving only the PP and the RS11, although the RS11 became very limited production. I vividly recall thinking that at least the quality of the PP should go up with the cutting of the other Corona Gordas allowing them to focus on the PP. I ran out to get my PP in 04 and 05--how wrong I was! Dud box after dud box for years. A lot of money down the drain on that one.