Babe Ruth

[Ken Gargett]

this discussion came up on another forum (non-cigar related). 

discussing Ali. someone expressed how popular he was and i said i thought he might be the most popular american outside of the united states.

another member felt lincoln, washington, jfk and babe ruth. 

this is not to question ruth's ability or his standing in baseball or his fame and popularity there but rather, to me, he would be nearly irrelevant to most of the world. i can remember travelling through asia/africa many years ago and being stunned at how little things that we in the west assumed were important/famous etc were in so many countries. at the time, infinitely more people i met could have told you details of maradona or ali yet not had a clue about who the leaders of USA, UK, Australia were. in fact, i would argue that bradman was more famous internationally than ruth, simply because of the number of fans in the sub-continent. 

wondering if any else had any thoughts? 

[eswary]

I would say Ali was more global, because Boxing is a much more global sport than American baseball.

Crazy that 2 athletes that were virtually the best at their sports passed away in the same week. RIP Ali and Howe

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[NSXCIGAR]

I don't think the American figures are even in the running. Figures like Ali, Pele, David Beckham, Ayrton Senna and Michael Schumacher were and still are household names all over the world. I doubt Babe Ruth was ever even close, particularly 80 years after the fact, or Lincoln 160 years later. You have to consider there are so many people outside of N.A. and Europe. Baseball is a very, very North American sport. Outside of North America, a bit of Central America and Japan, nobody even knows what it is. Boxing, soccer, racing are worldwide--billions of people follow it. Boxing perhaps to a lesser degree, particularly now, but 50 years ago it was up there.

Same with American politics and history. Outside of the US, figures that appear to be household names probably aren't. I would say of any American political figure, FDR may be the most well-known simply because of WW2 and it still being relatively recent. If I had to pick an American athlete, I'd say perhaps Tiger Woods. Entertainer, perhaps Michael Jackson or Elvis.

Interesting question though--who is the most well-known person in the world? What person would more people be able to recognize than any other? 

[PatrickEwing]

Where would my main rival and arch nemesis Michael Jordan stack up in the conversation? I would think he was about as big it gets in the 90s post Dream Team. 

[Ken Gargett]

10 minutes ago, PatrickEwing said:

Where would my main rival and arch nemesis Michael Jordan stack up in the conversation? I would think he was about as big it gets in the 90s post Dream Team. 

by chance, as soon as i saw the post above, i went back to the other forum to say i had forgotten jordan. it was maradona and michael jordan that were especially well known. so yes, i'd have jordan a long way ahead of ruth, in terms on recognition. 

[NSXCIGAR]

1 hour ago, PatrickEwing said:

Where would my main rival and arch nemesis Michael Jordan stack up in the conversation? I would think he was about as big it gets in the 90s post Dream Team. 

Somehow, in a discussion about worldwide recognition, I forgot Jordan! Yes, he'd definitely be right there, especially a decade or so ago. 

Would rather have Larry Bird there, though.  

[PatrickEwing]

Still curious what the average non-American/Canadian would answer if they were forced to name just one baseball player, living or not. I initially assumed a common foreign sports fans would be casually aware of even current players, but then realized I couldn't even name one cricketer (?), except to recall an Indian politician that was on 60 minutes a few years ago (Google: Imran Khan). 

Would it be Ruth? Do DiMaggio, Jackie Robinson, Aaron, Mantle, Mays, Bonds even rate?

[Ken Gargett]

4 minutes ago, PatrickEwing said:

Still curious what the average non-American/Canadian would answer if they were forced to name just one baseball player, living or not. I initially assumed a common foreign sports fans would be casually aware of even current players, but then realized I couldn't even name one cricketer (?), except to recall an Indian politician that was on 60 minutes a few years ago (Google: Imran Khan). 

Would it be Ruth? Do DiMaggio, Jackie Robinson, Aaron, Mantle, Mays, Bonds even rate?

i think it would be babe ruth. curious name and we have a view that he is considered the best hitter of all time. what is interesting to me is that i doubt any of the other players are current. or am i wrong? i'd struggle to name many - or even some - current players. and i even went to games when i lived in the states. 

bradman well known to all cricket playing countries (and that means a great many people, because of the numbers) as he was simply the greatest by so far it is not funny (and without raising this again as we have threads on it, a strong argument can be made for him the greatest sportsman of all time, because he was simply so dominant). khan a fine player but was known almost as much for famous and glamorous girlfriends and marrying an heiress and then his tilt at politics. 

basketball gets more coverage here, and there are a few players from australia in the comp, so names like bird, magic, jordan, lebron etc much more familiar. the jarrod hayne circus gave the NFL a boost here but it was somewhat popular before, though nowhere near as popular as soccer (or, of course, rugby, afl and league). one of my very favourite sports so i have followed it far more closely than i have other american sports. 

[planetary]

Here's a recentish piece among current athletes using Google Trends data. 

https://thecauldron.si.com/just-who-is-the-most-popular-athlete-anyway-78df9187adc2#.fa31xvnda

Not sure this is answering the real question, however. 

[PatrickEwing]

Nope, none are current. Bonds is the closest however. As for current players, A-Rod likely still represents the biggest name but Bryce Harper and Mike Trout should carry it for the next decade. Tons of great talent, but there seems to be something lacking in MLB these days. Not sure if rivalries are down or there is less personality or simply an adjacency effect because my Yankees suck, but it doesn't have the same draw as years back. 

I'll have to look up the greatest sportsmen debate. No need to rehash it (but still will), but from this continent's perspective my short list would be Ruth, Gretzky, Jim Brown, maybe Jim Thorpe. Basketball is tougher to me because each generation had a transformational talent that could be argued to be the best ever. Wilt, Bill Russell, Oscar, Kareem, Bird/Jordan/Magic, Duncan/LeBron

[Ken Gargett]

24 minutes ago, planetary said:

Here's a recentish piece among current athletes using Google Trends data. 

https://thecauldron.si.com/just-who-is-the-most-popular-athlete-anyway-78df9187adc2#.fa31xvnda

Not sure this is answering the real question, however. 

perhaps not but it is a really interesting link. many thanks. 

[Ghabanos]

I would say tiger woods or Arnold Schwarzenegger?

i may even say a president. Current pres more likely. Probably Obama would be more we'll know than Lincoln 

 

of course in addition to Jordan  

 

i don't think many in Asia would know babe Ruth. But I could be wrong. 

[Ghabanos]

I would also add Ronald Macdonald if global reach?

[Ken Gargett]

6 minutes ago, Ghabanos said:

I would say tiger woods or Arnold Schwarzenegger?

 

of course in addition to Jordan  

 

i don't think many in Asia would know babe Ruth. But I could be wrong. 

i suspect that tiger woods would have been reasonably well known a few years back but now, irrelevant to most. ditto arnie. but it is a really interesting question. might even be someone like beyonce? or some other modern singer. 

[wabashcr]

Not sure anyone was more famous worldwide in their heyday than Michael Jackson. Think of all the places he played and visited, and the media circus that followed him, back when that wasn't so common.  Only global celebrity of that status I can think of off the top of my head is Princess Diana.

All time, worldwide athlete would have to be Pele or possibly Maradona, right?  Current athlete is surely Messi.

[Mattygukas]

Michael Jordan is my assumption these days...When traveling around the world I have been asked a few things about the US and one that comes up is "have you ever seen MJ".  Then when I say yes, I have gone to a few games...conversation is derailed forever

**Side note, everyone always asks "have you been to New York?  I always wanted to see New York City"...  It is kind of funny when you live three hours away from NYC and have been there many times it simply doesn't feel special.  (Even though it is fun and cool)  Perception I guess. 

[dvickery]

Most famous person ever/still ... Beethoven ( sorry to all the sports fans out there ) .

nearly 200 years after his death and still people recognize his 5th instantly ( everywhere on earth ) .

derrek

[JohnS]

20 minutes ago, dvickery said:

Most famous person ever/still ... Beethoven ( sorry to all the sports fans out there ) .

nearly 200 years after his death and still people recognize his 5th instantly ( everywhere on earth ) .

derrek

True, but we are talking about an American outside of the United States. I think Lincoln, JFK, Babe Ruth, George Washington, Benjamin Franklin and even Thomas Jefferson are highly influential and well-known outside of the US, but I think that the answer lies within the bounds of a technicality, for on account of becoming an American citizen in 1940, Albert Einstein would, in my opinion, be the most highly influential and well known American outside of the United States.

[ChanceSchmerr]

In the present day fame is blurred to be fair - but I firmly believe in the 1920s, and perhaps the 1930s - Babe Ruth was the most well-known American on earth. More than Lincoln, Woodrow Wilson or anyone else.  You can thank World barnstorming tours for that, as well as the nature of the decade itself.  In a time of conspicuous consumption, he consumed more than most, and lived larger than life.

Incidentally - he was also reputed to pick up unfinished cigars from the clubhouse floor and cheerfully smoke them finished.  That can't have tasted good.....

[sastrooper]

15 hours ago, PatrickEwing said:

Still curious what the average non-American/Canadian would answer if they were forced to name just one baseball player, living or not. I initially assumed a common foreign sports fans would be casually aware of even current players, but then realized I couldn't even name one cricketer (?), except to recall an Indian politician that was on 60 minutes a few years ago (Google: Imran Khan). 

Would it be Ruth? Do DiMaggio, Jackie Robinson, Aaron, Mantle, Mays, Bonds even rate?

Derek Jeter

[Zigatoh]

Only babe Ruth I knew about was a chocolate bar from the goonies. Baby Ruth I think,  namesake?

[R0ut3]

I'd go with Nicolas Cage as a dark horse because he's popular in China.

[Jeremy Festa]

2 hours ago, Zigatoh said:

Only babe Ruth I knew about was a chocolate bar from the goonies. Baby Ruth I think,  namesake?

 

Yessss

 

 

 

 

That is my only understanding of Baby Ruth. 

Who was she anyway? Would love to learn more about her. 

[Fugu]

21 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

I don't think the American figures are even in the running. Figures like Ali, Pele, David Beckham, Ayrton Senna and Michael Schumacher were and still are household names all over the world. I doubt Babe Ruth was ever even close, particularly 80 years after the fact, or Lincoln 160 years later. You have to consider there are so many people outside of N.A. and Europe. Baseball is a very, very North American sport. Outside of North America, a bit of Central America and Japan, nobody even knows what it is. Boxing, soccer, racing are worldwide--billions of people follow it. Boxing perhaps to a lesser degree, particularly now, but 50 years ago it was up there.

Same with American politics and history. Outside of the US, figures that appear to be household names probably aren't. I would say of any American political figure, FDR may be the most well-known simply because of WW2 and it still being relatively recent. If I had to pick an American athlete, I'd say perhaps Tiger Woods. Entertainer, perhaps Michael Jackson or Elvis.

Interesting question though--who is the most well-known person in the world? What person would more people be able to recognize than any other? 

Agree with all you saying reg. sports figures (I couldn't name a single baseball player, had to look up for Ruth, though certainly a knowledge gap - interesting bio), but outside US, rather than FDR, JFK will be by far the most popular politician/President, if not the most popular American!

Ali/Cassius Clay - I remember his name since earliest childhood (must have been at age 3 or 4), when family members were talking about him. This must have been the very first figure in sports whose name I recognized conciously, earlier than any football player. Yes, the most popular US athlete of all times outside the US has to be Ali. But if I'd ask my children it would probably be someone like Serena Williams or so. Problem with popular US-sports figures is, the most popular sports outside the US is football/soccer. But America doesn't play (much) soccer...

[CaptainQuintero]

9 hours ago, JohnS said:

True, but we are talking about an American outside of the United States. I think Lincoln, JFK, Babe Ruth, George Washington, Benjamin Franklin and even Thomas Jefferson are highly influential and well-known outside of the US, but I think that the answer lies within the bounds of a technicality, for on account of becoming an American citizen in 1940, Albert Einstein would, in my opinion, be the most highly influential and well known American outside of the United States.

Christ I think claiming Einstein as American manages to make Kevin Pietersen being English seem believable

I hand on heart genuinely couldn't pick out Michael Jordan from a line up nor any baseball player, although I know the name Jordan and Babe (Although I thought it was a type of chocolate instinctively). There is just zero exposure to them from personal experience.

My gut would say it wouldn't be a sportsperson, exposure wise it would have to be music or film across age gaps so I'm guessing something like Michael Jackson or Elvis. Everyone in the Americas, Europe, Russia and China will surely know Elvis?