Protocol for lost trade package?

[DWC]

Mods: Is this ok to ask? I know talk of specific shipping of CC's is taboo, But

Just for a topic of discussion, lets say were trading baseball cards:

Is there a 'standard' protocol for a lost package for a trade?

First off, let me say this has not happened to me, but I was curious as how to handle it if it ever does.

I've never made an agreement in advance or have I ever heard of one.

If I have a package delivered to me but my outgoing package is lost, who is responsible for replacement? Is anyone responsible? Do you split the loss? Do they take the loss? Do I have to 'eat it' and re-ship the cards?

If everything is done in good faith, what's a good solution?

-Dan

[earthson]

Trades are like anos, they're all different!

[jazzboypro]

I guess it would depend on the company used to ship the baseball cards, premium delivery options/insurance VS standard/basic delivery options. The quality of tracking information (if any) you make a big difference also.

Just my 2 cents

[stogieluver]

I guess it would depend on the company used to ship the baseball cards, premium delivery options/insurance VS standard/basic delivery options. The quality of tracking information (if any) you make a big difference also.

Just my 2 cents

I think he is talking about lost trade shipments, not lost shipments from a vendor.

[DWC]

Yup. Person to person trade.

[jazzboypro]

My bad, sorry about that guys

[DWC]

ANOS ? Google says Australasian Native Orchid Society. For some reason I don't think that's what you meant. :-)

[HarveyBoulevard]

Anos?

[tjohn7]

If it was me I would file a claim with the carrier (USPS/AusPost) and keep tabs on the tracking information. Likely the package will show up at some point, but if it doesn't then I would aggressively pursue compensation from the carrier. Then, if insurance monies were paid out I would send that money to my trade partner. Definitely ties you up for a bit, but at least offsets some of the cost of the loss.

Tom

[Ginseng]

Should be some good discussion. There's the black and white of it and the nuances. Let's see how much hard earned experience gets shared here.

Wilkey

[jazzboypro]

Assuming that both parties agreed on what service should be used to ship the package and that the shipping party shipped accordingly, i would think that the receiving party has to assume the risk.

[DWC]

Collecting insurance requires a receipt of the goods shipped. With baseball cards this could be pretty difficult. especially if those cards in particular are not allowed in your country.

This did happen to me years ago. I shipped frozen venison to my brother. They lost it and by the time they found it (by the smell of it probably) it was too late. I could not produce a receipt for venison so I could not collect.

[aushy]

The way I see it, if I have shipped something and it doesn't reach the intended person then it is my responsibility to make it right. Either resend the 'cards' if I have them or provide some kind of monetary compensation. It's the way all businesses should (and most do) operate. I know it's not a business but the same principles should apply. The only exception I would say is if the cards are illegal in a particular country and are confiscated by customs, then that's a loss for the receiving party as that is on them for taking that risk.

It's good that there is such a high post count required to trade here. It means I am more likey to trust people. If somebody says they have sent something or haven't received something, then I wouldn't doubt for a second they are telling the truth.

[jazzboypro]

The way I see it, if I have shipped something and it doesn't reach the intended person then it is my responsibility to make it right. Either resend the 'cards' if I have them or provide some kind of monetary compensation. It's the way all businesses should (and most do) operate. I know it's not a business but the same principles should apply. The only exception I would say is if the cards are illegal in a particular country and are confiscated by customs, then that's a loss for the receiving party as that is on them for taking that risk.

It's good that there is such a high post count required to trade here. It means I am more likey to trust people. If somebody says they have sent something or haven't received something, then I wouldn't doubt for a second they are telling the truth.

Unless the package not reaching the other person is the result of a mistake on my part, i sure would assist in resolving the situation, as for to compensate this is another story unless there was an agreement made about any compensations before shipping. If the sender sent the package properly and that he can prove it to the receiver i don't think the sender should be held responsible once the package in the the hands of the carrier.

[CanuckSARTech]

The way I see it, if I have shipped something and it doesn't reach the intended person then it is my responsibility to make it right. Either resend the 'cards' if I have them or provide some kind of monetary compensation. It's the way all businesses should (and most do) operate. I know it's not a business but the same principles should apply. The only exception I would say is if the cards are illegal in a particular country and are confiscated by customs, then that's a loss for the receiving party as that is on them for taking that risk.

It's good that there is such a high post count required to trade here. It means I am more likey to trust people. If somebody says they have sent something or haven't received something, then I wouldn't doubt for a second they are telling the truth.

I think Aushy hit it on the head. It's pretty much how I run things - if it doesn't get there, it's on me to repeat if needed (and file a claim with the carrier if necessary to get the financial recovery for the lost package). The receiver can generally not file a claim with a carrier for a screw-up - only the sender, so it's just simply best for them to see it through. Agreed also on receiver-risk if acknowledging customs issues, especially if the trades are over 5 sticks or so. Only happened to me one time of a package not arriving, and the overall experience was worth more than the loss of a few extra sticks.

That said, and while I haven't had it happen to me personally, I've heard of it with some others - unless you're sending to a very trusted BOTL/SOTL or a good friend, ALWAYS ensure you have a tracking/confirmation package. Standard lettermail / small packet always seems to "get lost".

[CanuckSARTech]

To add on to that, there can be other things with a trade go sideways, and IMO, it's up to the initiator to make it go right.

My current Hotel Nacional ashtrays trade. Out of the three, I accidentally screwed up and switched labels on two of them. So, receiver B received receiver C's ashtray, and vice versa. Rather than the added hassle, inconvenience, and cost of them shipping back to me and then me correcting it, they're both being good enough in shipping directly to each other. Then, I'm following up with some extra sticks, some Monsdales, to make up for the added loss on their end, and the stupid mistake on mine. Everyone's happy with that.

Again, it's generally all dependant on if someone acknowledges a mistake or not. But, I think the onus is on the sender to ensure the product is delivered (aside from the Customs issues, of course).

[earthson]

ANOS ? Google says Australasian Native Orchid Society. For some reason I don't think that's what you meant. :-)

En Español...

Anos?

¡Si!

[Baldy]

I'm in agreement with Aushy. As far as I'm concern, me being the sender, is reponsible for getting the package to the receiver. I will do everything possible from my end to ensure that happens. I'll bend over backwards to make good rather than argue about symantics. My reputation and peace of mind is worth more than whatever loss I incur. So, knowing who I am, I'm very very careful to pick my trading partner(s) and much prefer to ship in country.

[wabashcr]

The way I see it, if I have shipped something and it doesn't reach the intended person then it is my responsibility to make it right. Either resend the 'cards' if I have them or provide some kind of monetary compensation. It's the way all businesses should (and most do) operate. I know it's not a business but the same principles should apply.

I agree with this. I would never ship something via any method without reliable tracking. If the carrier loses it, and I have a tracking number that shows as much, I'll fight that battle with the shipping company, and re-send in the meantime. Just seems like the right thing to do. Giving the receiving party the tracking # and telling them "good luck" doesn't seem very BOTL-like to me.

[topdiesel]

The problem with insurance from the USPS is that they allow you to purchase insurance, but they rarely pay it out unless you purchased registered mail. In addition, I would imagine that it would be even more difficult to receive compensation for goods that are not legal in the USA. I have always looked at it from the perspective that the sender has fulfilled their obligation by sending the item with a tracking number. If the carrier loses the goods, the sender should not be responsible. That being said, if I was the sender I would probably take it upon myself to send something of equal value or interest to the person on the receiving end.

[PapaDisco]

If it's a truly friend-to-friend trade, not a semi-pro EBay kind of thing, then I don't expect the other guy to be guaranteeing the performance of UPS, USPS, Fed Ex, and the like. It's just out of his control. All I expect is that both sides are willing to share the pain of a lost shipment so that each side is out the same. Whether that's by sending back some sticks, or sending over a few more, or splitting the cost of the arrived sticks.

A professional or semi-pro transaction will include in its pricing the average cost of lost packages. So if you know you're likely to lose like 20% over time, you mark everything up that amount, guarantee the shipping, and it all works out. But individuals doing trades don't mark things up for such contingencies.

Now if you're doing box splits (one guy takes delivery and then ships out to 5 others) I would expect the recipients to be on the hook for losses, or perhaps the splitters could all pitch in and send the poor guy a stick each, but that's complicated.

[shlomo]

Just work it out beforehand. No reason to be shy about it, and no reason for anybody to assume anything.

[cigcars]

*There are several companies that address this possibility by saying if there is a loss or non-delivery they will re-ship under prior agreed upon stipulations. If it's a package of some degree of value or fragility there should accompany a tracking number to go with it so that if it doesn't reach its destination the shipper can refer to the tracking number to find out its whereabouts. Even better would be to insure it so if there is a loss or non-delivery...PRESTO!...you can be properly reimbursed. Hope some help.

[Ken Gargett]

years since i looked at this in law school and it has probably changed about six times since but i vaguely recall that once you put something in the mail - assuming properly stamped etc etc, then you have complied with any requirements on you. of course, nowhere near as simple as that here and a squillion exceptions. if you put a cheque in the mail and it doesn't front then good luck having the intended recipient accepting that they were paid.

all that said, i would think it is something that is to be determined between the individual parties in each trade and utterly irrelevant to FOH.

[aushy]

years since i looked at this in law school and it has probably changed about six times since but i vaguely recall that once you put something in the mail - assuming properly stamped etc etc, then you have complied with any requirements on you. of course, nowhere near as simple as that here and a squillion exceptions. if you put a cheque in the mail and it doesn't front then good luck having the intended recipient accepting that they were paid.

all that said, i would think it is something that is to be determined between the individual parties in each trade and utterly irrelevant to FOH.

I don't really think we are talking about the legal side of things here. Legally yes, if you have proof of postage which shows that an item was sent by yourself to the correct address then you legally fulfilled your end of the deal. I see it more as a social convention of the right and wrong thing to do.

Just send with insurance and tracking in the event that anything goes wrong and it becomes much less of an issue.