Ginseng Posted December 9, 2014 Posted December 9, 2014 I was participating in a recent blind tasting and a curious situation came up. One cigar was described as "boring" by about half of the participants. I cut the cigar open and found chopped filler. Another reviewer remarked that a notable lack of progression was a hallmark of a short filler or sandwich-style cigar. Now this got me to thinking about development during smoking. Why should a cigar change as we smoke it? There must be a mechanism, right? There have been discussions over the years about tobacco leaf orientation in cigar contruction. Do the bunch leaves go tip-to-head or tip-to-foot. Is there a plan or intent? What if the stem and tip end of leaves are different in some way? And what if this made a difference to how it burned and smoked? Or is "development" merely the perception of the accumulated effect of burning tobacco? The more is burnt, the more stuff is left behind to change how the cigar smokes. If this were the case, wouldn't even short filler cigars "develop?" What do you think? Wilkey
Smallclub Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 Yes, there is an orientation; the cigar must gain in intensity and strenght. Have you tried to smoke a churchill backwards (ie lighting the head, foot in your mouth)? It's definitely a strange experience that you don't want to repeat. You realize how important is the progression for a long cigar. 3
jdackerman Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 Yes, there is an orientation; the cigar must gain in intensity and strenght. Have you tried to smoke a churchill backwards (ie lighting the head, foot in your mouth)? It's definitely a strange experience that you don't want to repeat. You realize how important is the progression for a long cigar. haha now i want to try this 1
parabola66 Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 I always wonderded this everytime I smoke a cigar. How different flavors pop in and out on the taste buds, how the profile of the smoke itself changes from light and airy, from dry to more creamy.. I always though it had to do with how the leaves are rolled to allow all the oils and goodies to draw down the cigar. This could be a great thread, hope we get some more input from the comminuty.
Ginseng Posted December 10, 2014 Author Posted December 10, 2014 haha now i want to try this Me too. We have a meetup this weekend, might give it a try. To do so, I'd want to choose a long enough cigar to allow pretty complete leaves in the filler bunch and sufficient material to develop. It'd also have to have a pretty good sized bunch so probably a churchill (47 RG) minimum. Would make for a potentially very interesting blind taste test I think. To be totally hardcore, you'd want to disassemble a couple specimens to see how the leaves are actually oriented inside. I've done it before, just not with a sample, just a single stick. Wilkey
Habana Mike Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 Watching rollers bunch cigars I've observed that they will use parts of leaves to even out the filler where there are gaps. I think this must have some impact on the blend ratio of ligero, seco, and velado at those points in the cigar. Given that I expect there would be some discernible changes in flavor. That along with the impact of combustion and difference from tip to end of the leaves may be some of the key factors in evolution.
rodrigodeanda Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 Yes, there is an orientation; the cigar must gain in intensity and strenght. Have you tried to smoke a churchill backwards (ie lighting the head, foot in your mouth)? It's definitely a strange experience that you don't want to repeat. You realize how important is the progression for a long cigar. I never thought of it that way. I think it would be interesting to try it one day but I'm not really looking forward to it hahaha
Smallclub Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 you'd want to disassemble a couple specimens to see how the leaves are actually oriented inside. The way the leaves are oriented is fully documented: tip to foot, as the older, thicker part of the leave is the richest. http://www.friendsofhabanos.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=118616 2
Ginseng Posted December 10, 2014 Author Posted December 10, 2014 Ahh, interesting observation from member DWC in the linked thread. His observation suggests that chopped filler cigars should develop just as long filler can be observed to do. As for fully documented, I think I'd need to see a little more to go quite that far. Do you happen to have anything from Rob? Wilkey
Jszeto Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 "All leaves are placed with their lighter-flavoured tips towards what will be the foot (the lit end) of the cigar so that the flavour will intensify as it is smoked. The stronger-flavoured, slower burning medio tiempo and ligero leaves are always placed at the centre." - The World of the Habano (2012) p.55
mk05 Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 MRN wrote about a lot about orientation while talking about solid feet, and you did about complexity and/or evolution, when talking about Opus X. 1
Colt45 Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 What about shorter, robusto-ish size cigars? From the linked vid, and a few others I've seen, the filler leaves are bunched, then the bunch torn in half. Then the two half bunches are bunched together, tips of the first half bunch oriented to the foot, center of the second half buch oriented at the foot. I've also seen an instance where one or two of the second half bunch leaves were flipped around so that the stem end was oriented at the foot. In this case, would orientation balance out the overall evolution, making for a more "monolithic" cigar? Are there other factors to flavor evolution?
CaptainQuintero Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 It would be interesting to see hoe a cigar develops if one was constructed with leaves that are cut in half. As in using the half that is the furthest from the stalk and none of the thicker half of a leaf is used. Would it never gain in strength and body? How much of this strength and body in the second half of a cigar is down to the leaf and how much is down to the build up of moisture from smoking the first half? Maybe the latter is more significant as short thin smokes seem to not suffer from the build up of body/heaviness compared to longer fatter cigars. And no this isn't another point leading into why coronas are the best!! ..or is it
Ginseng Posted December 10, 2014 Author Posted December 10, 2014 It would be interesting to see hoe a cigar develops if one was constructed with leaves that are cut in half. As in using the half that is the furthest from the stalk and none of the thicker half of a leaf is used. Would it never gain in strength and body? How much of this strength and body in the second half of a cigar is down to the leaf and how much is down to the build up of moisture from smoking the first half? Maybe the latter is more significant as short thin smokes seem to not suffer from the build up of body/heaviness compared to longer fatter cigars. And no this isn't another point leading into why coronas are the best!! ..or is it I think this is another brilliant idea for some experimentation. Now if we could only get ahold of a roller and some leaves. Wilkey
PapaDisco Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 It would be interesting to see hoe a cigar develops What is it with you and the fixation on Ho's and Cigars? Always with the Ho's . . . always with the cigars . . . 1
Ginseng Posted December 10, 2014 Author Posted December 10, 2014 Oy, right down into the gutter again, eh mates? Wilkey 2
... Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 I can already see the badass movie title: Quintero's hoes Chapter one: The Captain's arctic night... 1
shlomo Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 I can already see the badass movie title: Quintero's hoes Chapter one: The Captain's arctic night... Chapter 2; garden variety 1
PapaDisco Posted December 11, 2014 Posted December 11, 2014 Chapter 2; garden variety Or perhaps a Santa reference?
... Posted December 11, 2014 Posted December 11, 2014 About midgets and rain-dears Hoe-hoe-hoe, Merry Christmas 1
CaptainQuintero Posted December 11, 2014 Posted December 11, 2014 This is defamation of the highest order. I'm contacting the internet police. Nah, when do we start filming 1
TiminBC Posted December 12, 2014 Posted December 12, 2014 Their is a guy on a TV show found on YouTube as well. He is a manufactory in Ecuador. He says there factory will sometimes put a half leaf is the second half to keep it interesting. Dies not claim anyone else does it. Makes sense to me. But what do I know.
TiminBC Posted December 12, 2014 Posted December 12, 2014 I also have my own half baked idea that cc are often very young when shipped. Cuba does not age cigars or process them heavily. This means when we age them there can be a fair bit of variety in the cigar. Most likely
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