Urgent mould help

[Webbo]

For various reasons I've not been as vigilant in my Wineador as I would like recenty. I've opened it tonight and horrified to see on the top shelf of my singles drawer mould on almost all the cigars that are closest to the far end of the drawer. Those in the front half appear fine. The top drawer is nearest the fan and the refrigeration has been on all summer. The unit has been holding at around 68rh and 68degC with 3 lots of 65 RH beads top, middle and bottom. I have 3 hygrometers also and readings have never been above 70rh. I think the mould has come from the stream of cold air.

My question is what to do? I have turned off the cooling but can I salvage the cigars ( including 5 from the Upmann travel humidor). Do I need to throw them all out? Do I need to throw out the ceder shelf? Do I have to disinfect the whole Wineador? The photos look better than when I found them as I have given the worst ones a brush down in panic. Please help guys .

[CaptainQuintero]

Ah glorious plume!

Ok joking aside, without a huge amount of technical talk, if it was me:

-Turn off the unit, you're in the UK (right?) so there really isn't a need. Just rely on keeping the unit sealed and keep the temperature controlled by controlling the temperature of the room your humi is in. Regulate your humidity with beads.

Having your unit pump in cold air (wet air) obviously is a problem in a sealed environment. That moisture has no where to go unless you have a system in place to actively take it away, that is a whole other issue that is not a straight forward simple one. You're also going to run into issues with condensation.

-turn everything off, use the unit as a sealed box

- regulate humidity with lots of beads

-regulate the temp of the humi by room temp(radiators off etc)

[bigharpoon]

Wipe your cigars down as gently as possible. If the mold isn't in the foot and therefore inside the cigar they should be fine. Mold on the wrapper only can be wiped off no problem.

[DrinkSmokeGolf]

Agree with the above. There's not much point in keeping the cigars cold. If you're worried about beetles, freeze your sticks first. I use a wineador with no temp control and Boveda's and it is zero hassle.

[Rye]

What the Cap'n said makes perfect sense, but I'd also look at replacing or drying out your beads. By the description you've given, they are likely heavily saturated and cannot absorb any more at all.

As for the cigars, as long as they don't smell too musty, I'd wipe them down, let them readjust to a proper water content, and hope for the best.

Good luck!

[Webbo]

Thanks for the fast responses guys. I'm actually in Slovakia where it gets brutally hot in the summer ( here in October it was 80 deg the other day). Looks like freezing and using the fridge without cooling is the way. Would temps of 75 and over be ok for cigars that had been frozen? Also do I need to do anything to the cedar tray or wineador to clean them?

[1LegLance]

I have smoked worse than that with no ill effects to my body or the taste of the cigar.....IF nothing is INSIDE the stick.

As others have said, if it on the wrapper you are fine, inside the foot is no good.

Again as said above, no fan in your land, just beads on each shelf and enjoy the smokes.

[Smallclub]

Looks like freezing and using the fridge without cooling is the way.

Are you serious? Freezing because of mold? Do you realize what mold actually is? It doesn't make sense...

[garbandz]

clean the drawer and internals with alcohol on a cloth,and try for 70 degrees as a maximum temp.

remove any beads and give them a couple of days out to come down a few %,when you put them back, keep a close watch to avoid going too moist again........

[Colt45]

I guess my first question would be are you adding moisture to your humidor (moistening the beads, have an oasis type unit etc) ?

If so, my simplistic suggestion would be to remove any source of excess moisture.....

[PigFish]

What is the rH and temp in your room currently?

You have several problems and one of them is that your cigars are wet as well as moldy.

You need to dry them but what you don't want to do is shock dry them, whereas your wrappers and binders crack. Furthermore, I would check all your boxes and assume that they too are likely too wet as well. Boxes are not vapor barriers, they are just an impedance.

Let me know what you come up with and we will try to approach the problem systematically.

I have told many people that wine coolers as humidors only work when properly engineered. Sealing a lot of water in with cigars means that your rH will go through the roof unless you have an active dehumidification process.

More later when I have time.

-Piggy

[Webbo]

Are you serious? Freezing because of mold? Do you realize what mold actually is? It doesn't make sense...

To answer your questions. Yes, indirectly yes and yes. The reason, I think, the cigars have mould is because the refrigerating effect is drawing cold damp air over them. The only cigars with mould are the ones next to the cold air stream. The reason the fridge is on is because where I live it's bloody hot in the summer and I don't want beetles. In the winter when the fridge is turned off I don't need to cool them and I think the problem is averted.

[PapaDisco]

Very gently circulating air is helpful for evening out extremes of rH within your box, but an airstream that is too brisk or too cool will have its own perverse consequences and actually cause damp spots in your wineador as the sticks on the right are demonstrating.

Is there a way to diffuse the airflow? In your hot environment in the summer it would be nice to have temperature stabilization. Like Captain Q said, it's best if that temperature stabilization can be done with room temperature, but if not then you have to use the fridge and you don't want the fridge 'stabilizing' temperatures with big blasts of arctic cold air. That's akin the the guy with his head in the oven and his feet on ice; on average he was doing just fine.

You want your fridge chiller to change temperature very slowly and gently, otherwise you'll get concentrations of condensation inside.

[PigFish]

To answer your questions. Yes, indirectly yes and yes. The reason, I think, the cigars have mould is because the refrigerating effect is drawing cold damp air over them. The only cigars with mould are the ones next to the cold air stream. The reason the fridge is on is because where I live it's bloody hot in the summer and I don't want beetles. In the winter when the fridge is turned off I don't need to cool them and I think the problem is averted.

You are probably wrong here mate (regarding the cold damp assumption).

The cigars are moldy because of several problems.

1) it is too wet in your humidor.

2) these are high in your humidor and that will be the wettest area.

3) these are likely the coolest cigars, close to the coil

4) coolest cigars will likely have higher precent moisture content based on the isothermal activity of tobacco.

5) coolest cigars will attract the most water (to condense on them) when you open the door and let warm, moist air in.

6) and let me guess, you were trying to store your cigars in the 60's?

Circulation is one of your problems, too much of it was not a problem. Poor design and control (if you don't mind my candor) is the problem.

Cheers, Piggy

[Webbo]

You are probably wrong here mate (regarding the cold damp assumption).

The cigars are moldy because of several problems.

1) it is too wet in your humidor.

2) these are high in your humidor and that will be the wettest area.

3) these are likely the coolest cigars, close to the coil

4) coolest cigars will likely have higher precent moisture content based on the isothermal activity of tobacco.

5) coolest cigars will attract the most water (to condense on them) when you open the door and let warm, moist air in.

6) and let me guess, you were trying to store your cigars in the 60's?

Circulation is one of your problems, too much of it was not a problem. Poor design and control (if you don't mind my candor) is the problem.

Cheers, Piggy

No I can absolutely accept this Ray and thanks for your input. I realise that trying to trick nature is not going to be along term success, I'm just surprised that the hygrometers close by didn't pick it up. It is a sealed (mostly) box and chasing temperatures up and down whilst trying to maintain a fixed humidity is never going to be perfect without some pretty sophisticated kit which I was hoping to avoid. I know it "works" ( ok I mean it keeps things at average levels that can convince me everything is ok and the cigars smoke pretty well) when there is no great temperature gradient between the outside and the inside, as you have reasoned above. The problem here is that we go from -20 to +40 deg C during the year. A nightmare when the appartment has no AC. Humidity levels can also fluctuate wildly during the seasons as heavy rains come and go. I need to do some serious thinking on this.

[PigFish]

No I can absolutely accept this Ray and thanks for your input. I realise that trying to trick nature is not going to be along term success, I'm just surprised that the hygrometers close by didn't pick it up. It is a sealed (mostly) box and chasing temperatures up and down whilst trying to maintain a fixed humidity is never going to be perfect without some pretty sophisticated kit which I was hoping to avoid. I know it "works" ( ok I mean it keeps things at average levels that can convince me everything is ok and the cigars smoke pretty well) when there is no great temperature gradient between the outside and the inside, as you have reasoned above. The problem here is that we go from -20 to +40 deg C during the year. A nightmare when the appartment has no AC. Humidity levels can also fluctuate wildly during the seasons as heavy rains come and go. I need to do some serious thinking on this.

Remember mate, I use these systems myself.

I am not arguing your need, just commenting on your approach and comments. I wish I could come up with really inexpensive fixes for you guys, but having build these systems for years now, I have tried just about everything under the sun, and I have found that only a consummate and rather technical approach is the only one that works.

Of course I did not comment on the thread to talk about humidors (in general) but to try and help with your problem. I am here if you need further assistance (from me).

Cheers! -Ray

[Webbo]

Your comments and help are genuinely appreciated thanks. I also secretly really enjoy the in depth technical bits in some of your posts. Keep it up please.

[JustinThyme]

Firstly you are too wet, take the beads out and dry them. I use the wifeys hair dryer myself, others put them in the oven. I keep mine below 65%.

Yes freezing does kill the mold, so does light and alcohol but you don't want light or alcohol on your sticks. So long as the mold is on the surface only you should have no problems. Definitely treat that drawer with 190 proof everclear, if that isnt available then get 90% or better isopropyl alcohol and wipe it down.

I use a 120mm computer fan that circulates the air 24x7 built into a box in the bottom of the cooler where it draws the air down from the top then washes it back up the door so I maintain the same RH top to bottom. Its powered by a 10 VDC cable modem adaptor so it doesnt run quite to full speed. I also reversed the fan over the tec and directed it downward so nothing is blowing directly on the sticks. I tried making the box on the bottom solid first with holes out the top but that didnt work too well hence the tape over the holes so it blows out the front. What you see in the condensate basin is 70% gel in a stocking that absorbs the condensate the releases it back out. I have 2 lbs of HF beads with 1 lb in the bottom, half pound mid and half pound top.

End results. I maintain the same temp and RH +/- 1% or 1degF top to bottom. Currently its the same throughout at 66F/64% RH

Here is a pic