Fidels 88th Birthday .......

[El Presidente]

Well, I doubt any of us thought he would last this long. While I am no fan, he has had more lives than an alley cat.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2724039/Cuba-celebrates-Fidel-Castro-s-88th-birthday-did-survive-638-assassination-attempts.html

[AlohaStyle]

Hhhmmm, that article lists this attempt of assassination... maybe he directed the powers that be to create Cohiba for him privately and dignitaries so he knows he won't get bombed??

"Exploding cigar: This idea was thought up by a New York police officer and would have contained enough explosives to blow Castro's head clean off."

[Habana Mike]

That old codger's a frigging Energizer bunny.....

[...]

The expression 'tough SOB' comes to mind...

[polarbear]

Only the good die young, I guess

[oliverdst]

Vida longa para Fidel, Che e Camilo!

[pbibby]

Can't believe he's lasted this long. I bet his brother wishes he was dead.....

[dogdays]

My mom said if you don't have any thing good say, don't say any thing ..........

[MontrealRon]

Yeah, I guess Batista was so much better...

Ahh, for the good old days, when US corporations sucked out most of the economy,

like they still do in Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador,

where people are now exporting their children to try and save them from their destroyed societies...

ahh, for the good old days of widespread illiteracy,

ragged half-starved children, miserably low life expectancy, and instiutionalised racism...

the good old days, when Cuba was America's playground,

when its Mafia controlled the gambling, the drugs, the prostitution, and the government...

Feliz cumpleanos, comandante!

[stigmata]

Go Fidel!

Happy birthday!!!

Hope you hit 100!!!

[Morientes50]

Freedom from American control....but at what price? Many enjoyed a high standard of living (my parents certainly did). Fidel brought equality by making everyone poor (unless you had friends in high places). Better literacy but no freedom of expression. Better healthcare but no money to buy the medicines and technology etc. etc.

For me, the biggest blight on his record is not allowing freedom of movement for so long. You can do what you like as long as you let people vote with their feet (which he denied to many that had family in America who were willing to pay the price). If that was his only fault (which it isn't), it would be pretty damning IMO.

But whatever, as a son of Cuban immigrants I wish the man no harm. His existence allowed me to grow up in the USA. Now the fact that so many punk kids like to wear that Che shirt (even though the man executed so many people)....that still bugs me a bit.

[BonVivant]

The man responsible for an addiction? Happy Birthday!

[Ken Gargett]

Now the fact that so many punk kids like to wear that Che shirt (even though the man executed so many people)....that still bugs me a bit.

thank you!

without a comment either way re fidel, it is the bizarrest thing how so many people, particularly those that see themselves as a force for good/peace/etc etc, wear that t-shirt or stick up those posters as proof/evidence that they are actually against the vast majority of things that che not just stood for but committed.

the bloke was near insane. a murderer, executioner and someone who could have/wanted to plunge the world into an absolute holocaust. my understanding is the records later made public from russian archives showed that it was actually fidel who stopped che when che wanted to launch the missiles during the missile crisis. and he is hailed as some beacon of peace.

i do love the opportunity to ask those idiots celebrating him just what they know about him. rarely anything.

humans are morons.

[polarbear]

thank you!

without a comment either way re fidel, it is the bizarrest thing how so many people, particularly those that see themselves as a force for good/peace/etc etc, wear that t-shirt or stick up those posters as proof/evidence that they are actually against the vast majority of things that che not just stood for but committed.

the bloke was near insane. a murderer, executioner and someone who could have/wanted to plunge the world into an absolute holocaust. my understanding is the records later made public from russian archives showed that it was actually fidel who stopped che when che wanted to launch the missiles during the missile crisis. and he is hailed as some beacon of peace.

i do love the opportunity to ask those idiots celebrating him just what they know about him. rarely anything.

humans are morons.

I used to ask all the hip kids of they actually knew what The Ramones were or who Von Dutch was.

People are often sheep and it often caused me to shake my head when I saw someone like Paris Hilton in a T-Shirt sporting the name of a legendary artist who spent most of his life on the breadline and who lived by the principle that "a man has to work"

[Hash]

Why all the criticism , are other world leaders better than him, many nations have been ill treated by leaders who claim they are democratic. Anyway i do not think it is good form to wish someone ill , because you only disagree with him.

[...]

Yeah, I guess Batista was so much better...

Ahh, for the good old days, when US corporations sucked out most of the economy,

like they still do in Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador,

where people are now exporting their children to try and save them from their destroyed societies...

ahh, for the good old days of widespread illiteracy,

ragged half-starved children, miserably low life expectancy, and instiutionalised racism...

the good old days, when Cuba was America's playground,

when its Mafia controlled the gambling, the drugs, the prostitution, and the government...

Feliz cumpleanos, comandante!

We live in a world where people are nostalgic about an idealized and simpler past, which is but an illusion. History, albeit already biased by nature, is ripe with struggle, wars and pain. Oh well, we love to be dreamy

[CaptainQuintero]

It's certainly a difficult and emotive subject, apart from a handful of people like Ghandi all politicians are pretty vile humans.

For example since WW2 there hasn't been a US president that, according to the standards set at the Nuremberg Trials, hasn't committed crimes against humanity. You can probably add the majority of UK Prime ministers, French Presidents, Israeli Prime ministers, Russian Presidents, Chinese Presidents, Saudi Kings etc to that list.

It's hard for any good to be found in politics and the people who play that game, certainly it's hard for the majority of us to take a moral highground or pick a side unless we accept how awful our own 'leaders' have been, are and will no doubt continue to be.

[...]

It's certainly a difficult and emotive subject, apart from a handful of people like Ghandi all politicians are pretty vile humans.

For example since WW2 there hasn't been a US president that, according to the standards set at the Nuremberg Trials, hasn't committed crimes against humanity. You can probably add the majority of UK Prime ministers, French Presidents, Israeli Prime ministers, Russian Presidents, Chinese Presidents, Saudi Kings etc to that list.

It's hard for any good to be found in politics and the people who play that game, certainly it's hard for the majority of us to take a moral highground or pick a side unless we accept how awful our own 'leaders' have been, are and will no doubt continue to be.

Claiming highground would be arrogant, not moral

I vote for common ground Let us rush to it...

[laficion]

Yeah, I guess Batista was so much better...

Ahh, for the good old days, when US corporations sucked out most of the economy,

like they still do in Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador,

where people are now exporting their children to try and save them from their destroyed societies...

ahh, for the good old days of widespread illiteracy,

ragged half-starved children, miserably low life expectancy, and instiutionalised racism...

the good old days, when Cuba was America's playground,

when its Mafia controlled the gambling, the drugs, the prostitution, and the government...

You can think otherwise but THIS above Is true. All the Cubans In Florida can say what they want, they never had It

this good, thanks to him,they are better off .SO, ?

Guy

[oliverdst]

I hope the regime goes down as soon as possible. You can take everything from a man but freedom.

BUT I ask how many of you live in a poor country?

There are lots of things wrong in Cuba however, in oposite of other poor countries, the rates of starvation, illiterates and homeless are low, maybe close to zero.

If you ask someone who lives under the bridge of a poor country if he would exchange his life for a Cuban citizen lifestyle I bet 100% of them would change in the blink of an eye.

Can you imagine your whole life being homeless? Most of the time having nothing to drink and eat?

I see that in a regular basis in Brazil and, believe me, it's not pretty.

[CUBANO]

Yeah, I guess Batista was so much better...

Ahh, for the good old days, when US corporations sucked out most of the economy,

like they still do in Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador,

where people are now exporting their children to try and save them from their destroyed societies...

ahh, for the good old days of widespread illiteracy,

ragged half-starved children, miserably low life expectancy, and instiutionalised racism...

the good old days, when Cuba was America's playground,

when its Mafia controlled the gambling, the drugs, the prostitution, and the government...

Feliz cumpleanos, comandante!

Amigo,

Batista was not an angel, but yes he was much better than Fidel. At least we (Cubans) were free to work were you wanted, travel and buy a house, and if you worked hard you could give your children a good future.

That's something that Fidel took away from us.

[MontrealRon]

Amigo,

Batista was not an angel, but yes he was much better than Fidel. At least we (Cubans) were free to work were you wanted, travel and buy a house, and if you worked hard you could give your children a good future.

That's something that Fidel took away from us.

Yes, I imagine that life under Batista was better for those few who had something to lose.

Businessmen needed protection from the workers, and landowners from the campesinos,

while the American monopolists needed protection from Cuban nationalists.

Batista and his thugs provided that protection.

Cuba before the revolution was essentially an American colony;

like the Philippines, the spoils of the Spanish-American war of 1898.

In all colonized societies, like British India and Africa, French Algeria, the Dutch East Indies (Indonesia), etc.,

there is always a small class that benefits from, and thrives under, the generally oppressive system.

After de-colonization, this class either adapts to the new reality, or leaves with the departing colonizers.

In Cuba, those who opposed the new reality were allowed, even encouraged, to leave.

Many did; others stayed and adapted.

Those who lost their factories or plantations, or their good jobs in the police, military or bureaucracy,

and had to start from scratch in a new country, were understandably upset and bitter.

Unfortunately, however, many of these people were part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Their bitterness, combined with a whitewashed fantasy as history, is passed on to their children;

like in a nasty divorce, where one parent can be demonized to the point of alienation from the kids.

Thus, a murderous thug and tool of the Mafia can be seen as preferable to the man

who raised his people from miserable poverty and servitude to a standard of living,

by any logical measure, among the best in the world.

No one, least of all myself, considers Cuba to be a paradise on earth.

Many mistakes were made, some bordering on disasterous.

Much still remains to be done.

This much I can say, based on my own experience :

wander about the most run-down neighbourhoods of today's Havana,

or any provincial towns or cities, and you will encounter a healthy looking and well-fed citizenry,

rather well dressed, especially the kids in their immaculate school uniforms,

going about their business in an atmosphere of peace and calm, without a hint of violence.

My mother visited Havana in 1949.

To this day, she is still shocked by the degradation she saw,

and this from someone who is very well travelled.

After wandering about Havana,

if you would like an idea of what the city might be like today,

had the revolution been defeated at its birth,

you could take a similar walkabout in Santo Domingo, Port-au-Prince, or Kingston.

Just don't forget to arrange for your armed bodyguards...

[Morientes50]

The talk about Batista is largely a straw man fallacy, You can't establish the merits of Mr. A by saying how bad Mr. B was before. Batista might have been a devil or an angel and it still doesn't add weight to what this discussion is about (Fidel Castro).

Now, there are those who hold the somewhat racist argument that Castro is good enough because "look at those Latin Americans....they can't do anything right....at least they are better off with this dictator". But i;m sure nobody has this in mind here as you are all honorable men.

The appeal to a 1949 visit by a relative is no less anecdotal than all of the thousands of account of emigrants who speak of Havana as a safe and prosperous city. As for the "bitter folks" who left and teach their sons and daughters fiction, well, I won't respond to this personally. All I wish to establish is 2 points 1) Batista was never their hope, a democratic society (and leader) was. 2) I hope that anyone living under the comforts of a democratic country never suffers the misfortune of having to live under a regime like Castro's. They might find that some of the propaganda they have swallowed (like "the work isn't finished left, Castro only needs another 20 years to get things right") was more Chicken sh** than Chicken salad.

[MontrealRon]

...All I wish to establish is 2 points 1) Batista was never their hope, a democratic society (and leader) was. 2) I hope that anyone living under the comforts of a democratic country never suffers the misfortune of having to live under a regime like Castro's.

1) Unfortunately, for Cuba "a democratic society (and leader)" was never an option.

As a wholely owned subsiduary of America, Inc.,that would never have been permitted,

any more than it was in Guatemala (1954), Chile (1973), etc.

I agree that Batista himself is not the issue;

he was merely the last in a series of managers imposed from Head Office to keep the locals under control,

and to keep the money flowing north.

Only a popular uprising broadly supported could hope to dislodge American economic, military and political control,

and reclaim crucial economic sectors for the benefit of the nation, as happened in Mexico (1914).

The only choice in Cuba was between status quo ante, and revolution.

2) The material "comforts of a democratic country" are not due to any moral or intellectual superiority,

but rather to the vast wealth sucked out of the nations that we exploit,

allowing even our poor to appear wealthy in comparison.

The question of whether a rigged system alternating power between two nearly identical parties,

(reds and blues / bloods and crips) is truly democratic is a question for another day...

Clearly, the conditions allowing for a popular revolution do not exist in the relatively wealthy countries,

so the question of "having to live under a regime like Castro's" is, for us, moot.

To suggest, or even hint, that my comparison of Castro's Cuba to its neighbours is somehow racist,

does not merit a response.

Cuba's neighbours suffer because WE exploit them,

and this will continue until either they rise up in revolt,

or the Empire collapses (as all empires eventually do).

[CUBANO]

Yes, I imagine that life under Batista was better for those few who had something to lose.

Businessmen needed protection from the workers, and landowners from the campesinos,

while the American monopolists needed protection from Cuban nationalists.

Batista and his thugs provided that protection.

Cuba before the revolution was essentially an American colony;

like the Philippines, the spoils of the Spanish-American war of 1898.

In all colonized societies, like British India and Africa, French Algeria, the Dutch East Indies (Indonesia), etc.,

there is always a small class that benefits from, and thrives under, the generally oppressive system.

After de-colonization, this class either adapts to the new reality, or leaves with the departing colonizers.

In Cuba, those who opposed the new reality were allowed, even encouraged, to leave.

Many did; others stayed and adapted.

Those who lost their factories or plantations, or their good jobs in the police, military or bureaucracy,

and had to start from scratch in a new country, were understandably upset and bitter.

Unfortunately, however, many of these people were part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Their bitterness, combined with a whitewashed fantasy as history, is passed on to their children;

like in a nasty divorce, where one parent can be demonized to the point of alienation from the kids.

Thus, a murderous thug and tool of the Mafia can be seen as preferable to the man

who raised his people from miserable poverty and servitude to a standard of living,

by any logical measure, among the best in the world.

No one, least of all myself, considers Cuba to be a paradise on earth.

Many mistakes were made, some bordering on disasterous.

Much still remains to be done.

This much I can say, based on my own experience :

wander about the most run-down neighbourhoods of today's Havana,

or any provincial towns or cities, and you will encounter a healthy looking and well-fed citizenry,

rather well dressed, especially the kids in their immaculate school uniforms,

going about their business in an atmosphere of peace and calm, without a hint of violence.

My mother visited Havana in 1949.

To this day, she is still shocked by the degradation she saw,

and this from someone who is very well travelled.

After wandering about Havana,

if you would like an idea of what the city might be like today,

had the revolution been defeated at its birth,

you could take a similar walkabout in Santo Domingo, Port-au-Prince, or Kingston.

Just don't forget to arrange for your armed bodyguards...

Amigo,

Are you serious?

The US and Corporations are not responsible for what is happening in Honduras, El Salvador or any other country. That is the fault of their Govt. and politicians, who are in power for their self-interest. If they(Govt) would put their effort in improving the economy, create jobs, pay decent wages, control crime their citizens you would not have people sending their children alone to migrate to the U.S. to avoid their children from being murdered.

Before Castro Cuba had the best standard of living than any Latin American country, and exported more than just cigars. The Cuban peso was par to the US dollar, and there were many social classes, now there are only two. Rich and Poor and most of Cuba is poor, but before we were FREE.

My Familia was middle class, not rich by any means but lived well, until my father decided to leave and he was FORCED to work the sugar cane fields for minimum wage for 4.5 yrs. until we were allowed to leave, everything we had was confiscated when we left Cuba. The only thing we were allowed to take was the clothes on our backs.

Most of my relatives are still in Cuba, and we have to constantly have to send money to help them out, because they can't survive on $20 dollars a month.

One of my cousins had a hernia and she could not be operated on, because they did not have the mesh that was needed and we had to send it to her.

Another cousin has a daughter in Mexico who is giving birth to her child, and she(my Cousin) asked for permission to go visit her daughter for the birth and she was denied.

Do you still think that Cuba is better now, than before Castro?

The most precious gift that we have as Human beings is FREEDOM, and we Cubans haven't had that for 55 years. When you say Feliz Cumpleano, Fidel, and Cuba is better now.

Is an insult to the 11 million Cubans, and the thousands that have died at sea to get to freedom in the US.

Adios, I hope I have opened your eyes from the blind folds of Communism.

I