Is RH determined by the number of sticks in a humidor?

[pwhite]

I am in a constant struggle with humidity levels within my humidor. I live in the North East part of the United States. The winter's are dry, lots of snow, however, inside the house I hover at around 40% humidity. I prefer my cigars to be at approximately 68% RH. I have been playing cigar Tetris inside my humidor that I built to hold about 400 smokes for the last year. I have a Cigar Oasis inside my humidor set at 70%, but it is constantly running in order to maintain an RH of 68%. Recently, I pulled out an old desktop humidor that I had and put about 75 sticks in it. My main humidor now does not seen to be laboring to maintain 68%. My assumption would have been that the more cigars you have, the more moisture they would give out, thus helping to maintain RH. Do the cigars in a humidor not give off moisture on their own, but only draw it form the Oasis? Are you better off not fully stocking one humidor, but perhaps have multiple ones?

[DrunkenMonkey]

I've always believed that a full humidor is more stable, but your experience makes me wonder.

[Rye]

When it's too full, the lid can't close!

Mine seem to work best when they are full, mind you, I maintain proper air space, and I know what they are built from, as I built them myself. There are so many variables here, that I can't really point you in any direction.

[Stogieninja]

I wonder if being full was causing circulation issues, and/ or if placement of the hygrometer had an effect? With the active humidity I'm guessing that in the packed humidor, the sticks close to the Oasis were getting spake an the ones farther away weren't getting enough.

I think the oasis is probably overkill for a 400ct humidor.

[pwhite]

I have tried the hygrometer in different locations within the humidor, and as far as the lid not closing, that is not an issue.

[NJP]

Temp is the factor. We have a master on this forum called Ray (Piggy) search for the many master classes he has shared.

[Smallclub]

Temp is the factor.

Try to maintain an almost empty humidor and temperature will be the last of your problems…

And I don't think taking 75 cigars from an humidor to place them in an other humidor, in the same room, will change the temperature…

[oliverdst]

Try to maintain an almost empty humidor and temperature will be the last of your problems…

He is out of space how could he manage to have "an almost empty humidor"?

[Smallclub]

He is out of space how could he manage to have "an almost empty humidor"?

My post was a reaction to the post about temperature, it wasn't directed to the OP.

[oliverdst]

My post was a reaction to the post about temperature, it wasn't directed to the OP.

[Fosgate]

I asked my Physics instructor about some of this via email and got a long drawn out response as you can probably guess.

• Dry air is heavier than humid air. Newton discovered this in 1770 and Avogadro put forward the exact reasons for it. Equal volumes of different gases at the same pressure and temp will contain the
  
• same number of molecules. Hence water vapour molecules must displace air molecules in humid air. Water vapour has a molecular weight of 18 while air is approx 29 so the weight for a given volume ( ie
  
• density) is less. Don't confuse humid air, which is water vapour and invisible, with cloud or fog which is visible water droplets ( ie liquid water) suspended in air and settles in valleys only
  
• because it is colder than the surrounding air.
  
• This is true if both are at the same temperature or if the humid air is warmer. Water vapor has an atomic mass of 16 while diatomic oxygen has a mass of 32 and diatomic nitrogen has a mass of 28.
  
• Both O2 and N2 are major components of air.
  
• Avogadro's law tells us that a given number of gas molecules (e.g., a mole) always occupies the same amount of space at a given temperature, regardless of the chemical composition of the gas. Thus,
  
• the density of any gas depends on the molecular mass of the gas molecules. Dry air is a mixture of 80% nitrogen molecules (N2 - molecular mass = 28) and 19% oxygen molecules (O2 - molecular mass =
  
• 32); it has an average molecular mass of 28.1g per mole. The molecular mass of water (H2O) is 18. Thus, while liquid water is much more dense than air, gaseous water is less dense than dry air.
  
• Therefore, humid air, which contains a mixture of air and gaseous water, is lighter (less dense) than dry air.
  
• Humid air is lighter, therefore it has less air pressure
  

Rapid temperature changes will cause moisture in the air to deposit in low areas of the humidor when it is cools down and the air to become drier. Then when it warms back up in the day time the air can once again absorb moisture and the cycle starts over. During cold periods it is more effective to increase the temperature of the air than dump more humidity into the system. Alternatively, In short displacement of air by the volume of cigars reduces the amount of air to exchange moisture.

[Cigar Surgeon]

Cold air can't hold humidity levels like warm air can. That's why in the winter time you see ambient humidity drop like a stone when the temperature drops.

So in a way you're getting a double whammy in the winter time.

Up in Canada it's almost impossible for passive humidification to bring one of my desktop humidors above 65%. You just can't saturate the cold air with more than that.

There's also other factors such as altitude but winter is the worst time for cigar storage.

[Webbo]

Is that the sound of Piggy hitching up his slacks, cracking his knuckles and moving in a keyboardwise direction I can hear???

[pwhite]

I agree with you regarding temp. .However, where I have my humidor, the temp is always around 70 degrees give or take 1 or 2 degrees. I don't think temp was a factor in the stabilizing RH. My assumption was that perhaps, more cigars draw in more humidity, thus requiring my Oasis to have to work harder. My initial assumption was that the cigars once humidified would give out moisture, thus a full humidor the easier to maintain RH.

[Fosgate]

I think your right as well pwhite. I live in the same desert winter climate with only 37-42% humidity. I think the environment we live in the winter just sucks the life out of everything. I could barely maintain 60% with six 75% boveda bags in a 150cig humidor. My saving grace was sinking some brass screws in the seal to lid. http://forums.cigara.../5747000542/p/1 Mine is holding steady now with that fix right at 70% by just doing that. Of course I think having a laquer coated finish really helps seal up the humidor as well. One I had with a glass top and non laquer coated finished was very poor. I would not be surprised if it leaked at the glass edge as I had heard of people running silicone around the edge of the glass to seal it. It was a very cheap humidor. Humidifier in the room might help as someone suggested.

[PigFish]

The number of cigars has nothing to do with rH in your humidor.

The amount of hygroscopic material in your humidor can have an effect as that material displaces both air and water vapor. If it is dry, you humidor will be dry. If it is wet your humidor will be wet!

Air has nothing at all to do with water vapor! Water vapor will achieve its percentage content level with or without air. rH is based on temperature and free water at a given temperature. It has nothing to do with air! Air just transfers heat and can be used to help push the water around.

If you are piling tons of water (figuratively) into your space, you either have a very porous humidor, kind of defeating the point of it, or you have a wet mess where the humidifier is, and a dry space where the hygrometer is.

In examining humidor performance, it is best not to assume anything! Assuming can lead to ruined cigars, so examine them carefully. I say pull a dozen or so cigar from next to the humidifier and put them in an airtight space, like a mason jar, with a hygrometer (preferably one that works!) for 24 to 48 hours. Do the same with some cigars in the dry section with the same hygrometer. Is there a differential?

If I were guessing, I would have to say that you have considerable loss due to the dry ambient and certainly a circulation problem in your humidor. If your humidor is being heated by the sun for a brief time, or by forced air heating due to its placement, you may find that the rH is reflective of the higher temperature, meaning more actual humidity reading as less rH, than if it were stored in a cooler spot. Changing the location of your passive humidor, can therefore change the conditions inside of it. Have you moved it recently?

Placing a sensor, right next to your water source is a bad idea! You have to read between the lines on this one!

Best of luck on your project. -the Pig

[NJP]

The views expressed by the previous author are always appreciated.