Can't taste properly after smoking (certain) non-cubans


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Hi everyone. I was hoping to get your opinion on a problem I've been having. As mentioned in the title, after smoking certain non-cubans (like Liga Privada T52 robusto) my taste buds get dull for couple of days. In those days, every cigar I smoke almost taste the same and utterly bland. So, as a rule of thumb, I now try to smoke non-cubans when I know that I won't be having a cigar at least for couple of days.

Never had this problem with cuban cigars even with very strong blends and I was wondering if any of you guys experience the same issue with non-cubans. Maybe someone can even offer a scientific explanation on the cause of the problem. Maybe my tastebuds are over sensitive or they may have been reacting to certain type of tobacco?

Cheers,

Nihat

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It could be the fact many of those types of NC cigars use huge amounts of ligero and artificial treatments on the wrappers to create that ultra dark "maduro" style wrapper. Also, I would imagine you won't be smoking those any longer since they are messing with your mouth . . .?

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Anything extreme will dull your senses for a while, loud music, sucking garlic paste from a tube or a big hitting cigar etc nothing wrong with that it's just a by-product of something strong/loud etc

Not too sure on the claim about artificial treatments though, maybe in things like swisher sweets but nothing premium:

Hi All,

Every couple of weeks or so I do a google search on Drew Estate, Liga

Privada, Acid, etc... and this thread was one of the new hits.

I am scoping it out and was cruising along fat and happy until I read

BrianL's contention that we manipulate the wrapper color on Liga

Privada, so I decided to reply - for better or worse.

First off, on this topic - yes some manufacturers have in the past and

still do manipulate their maduro leaf to achieve a darker, more even

color, but let me share with you some info:

Maduro is a color designation but it is also a reference to specific

varieties of air cured black tobaccos which require longer fermentation

at a high bulk temp. For example, most habano seed capas will seldom be

allowed to exceed 110 degrees in a bulk, while some CT Broadleaf will

require temps over a 125 degrees to just get it going. So while any

cigar can be maduro in color, true maduro cigars are ones wrapped with

CT Broadleaf, Penn Broadleaf, San Andreas Negra, Costa Rican Morron,

Brazilian Matafina, Aripriaca, etc. So it is important that just

because a cigar may be maduro in color, it does not mean it is actually

a cigar with Maduro wrapper.

Each variety of maduro capa has it own specific traits, for example CT

Broadleaf is a very large, elephant shaped leaf with an inherent

natural sweetness and an absolute pain in the ass to work with on the

floor, while Aripriaca is long and thin, very elastic and extremely

spicy - these are the typicals not the not always.

When you work with maduro capas on bench, they must be incredibly wet

to handle. In fact, cigars rolled with maduro capa must be done on a

metal tabla vs. the traditional wood one you see in almost all cigar

rolling photos. The also require special wicking (drying) right after

their manufacture in order to prevent flat faces and streaking before

being place in the traditonal escapartes. Another unique trait of

maduro cigars is they almost always shrink at least one ring size, ie.

you use 52 ring mold, but after 60+ days of aging the will almost

always be 51 (and sometimes 50) in gauge. Some makers use larger molds,

ie. a 54 to make 52s, while others like ourselves just list the

original mold size on our frontmarks.

As for modifying the color, there is a variety of ways of achieving this, naturally and artificially.

1) Naturally - by leaving the tobacco in the pilon/bulk longer and/or

allowing to ferment at higher temperatures before each turn of the bulk.

2) Naturally - by bale resting the tobacco for 6 months plus after

fermentation - this doesn't typically change the hue as much as it

evens the color out to the darkerest shade on the leave achieved in the

bulk.

3) Naturally - utilizing water in which tobacco stems have been allowed

to steep for sometimes weeks as the water added to the bulk for the

purposes of fermentation. This is a very time honored, Cuban practice

which not only results in a darker leaf, but also a spicier one.

4) Steaming - also called cooking or steeping. This is not achieved in

some giant vat like some of the posters have written, doing so would

destroy the leaf. Rather it is done in a small vessel typically 10

gallons in size to which steam is applied for approximately 60 minutes.

This technique is not only done to achieve a very dark color, it also

mellows the tobacco out making it much mellower and milder to smoke.

5) Painiting - this is done by typically achieved by wiping down the

cigar gently after it has been constructed with some sort of mixture.

This can be done wither Naturally or Artificially - some are recipes

that are all natural just using the oils from the stems or picadura or

the are artificial ones that contain coloring agents. Again there is a

long history of the natural methodology, the artificial stuff really

only came into practice within the premium industry during the boom.

6) Maduro-Matic - this is a name use to describe technique #5 but done

with a machine in which the wrapper is passed through roller s. Almost

always the coloring used it artificial.

There are other techniques, but the above covers the bulk of the methods employed.

Obviously the natural techniques are a-ok, so I believe the primary

concern as a consumer is the artificial ones. The question is how can

you tell the difference?

First off it is done really well, it is very hard for someone who

doesn't really intimately know tobaccos and how to manufacture cigars

to tell the difference.

Just having some dark stains come off the wrapper alone is -NOT- a fair

indicator, because all natural maduro wrappers will cause staining to

the skin with moisture due to their inherent oiliness. If you ever have

to opportunity to visit a cigar factory, just look at the hands of the

workers, unlike the manicure perfect hands shown in the pictures in

magazines and books, every worker's hands are stained, even those

working with BW color shade leaf. And those rolling maduro, their hands

are sometime near black! Everyone just stages those photos, we pick out

a pretty rollera with nice hands, she washes up, we clean up the bench,

etc. etc. just to make a pretty picture. Fwiw, it tough to even take

good pictures of people rolling cigars because they move too fast and

their hands are in the way, so 99% of the photos everyone see are

posed...

Also if you ever happen to be in any cigar factory, just because you

see someone wiping down a cigar with a sponge do not assume they are

dying the wrapper. Almost all factories regularly wipe their finished

cigars gently with water (except those with blonde wrappers which are

wipe dry with a soft cloth) to remove dust and/or any debris. And that

little water bowl's content become quite brown after just wiping a

couple of dozen sticks.

So it is not uncommon that from a really oil maduro for you to be able

to get staining while you smoke or if you were to wipe the cigar along

a sheet of paper.

However, there typically is a difference in the staining, a certain hue

and depth to it. I really cannot explain it in text, but someone with

true tobacco experience can tell.

One of the best ways for the consumer to tell if the wrapper has been artificially colored is the following:

Is the wrapper too perfect? The color is always even everywhere with no

color difference in the veins or texture, is the wrapper always extra

extra dark, does it seem to stain far more than other cigars. Now if

you think it is painted, well this is pretty easy to check.. peel the

wrapper off, look at its underside, almost all capas will be a

SIGNIFICANTLY different hue on the underside. Now don't confuse slight

difference because the oil always migrate to the exterior, so the

exterior will always be shinier - keep this in mind.

When it comes to steamed leaf the color will appear the same on both

sides, however it will always be nearly jet black and the actually

grain of the leaf will be matte. Sometimes if it is really over steamed

you will even notice a slight greyness when you reflect light across

its surface. But again, don't confuse the grey of a cigar with plume

vs. one that is due to steaming.

I hope this provides everyone with some info to assist in making your

own judgements, but at the same time I ask that people exercise

judgement when they start claiming such and such a cigar is

artificially darkened. Please understand that this is our livelihood

and false accusations not only can be parroted, but very damaging and

unjustly so.

At Drew Estate we only employ the natural #1 and #2 techniques

described above and I take issue with anyone stating differently and

please ask for others to refer them to my comments if you ever see this

accusation again - much thanks.

Hope this helps,

Steve Saka

President, Drew Estate, Inc.

[email protected]

http://www.socialcigar.com/forum/topics/creating-maduro-leaf-from

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The only thing I ever tasted after smoking NC's was liken to a cat trowing up on a roof shingle, rolling up the roof shingle,dipping it in chemicals, lighting it up and smoking it.

(Yes that especially includes the Padron Anni's!!)

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@QC,

Thanks for the long response from the DE team, but coming from the kings of flavored cigars I tend to discount their "purist" approach to treating their maduro wrappers. I guess I may just be a cynical prick, but tis life sometimes :)

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@QC,

Thanks for the long response from the DE team, but coming from the kings of flavored cigars I tend to discount their "purist" approach to treating their maduro wrappers. I guess I may just be a cynical prick, but tis life sometimes smile.png

rotfl.gifrotfl.gifrotfl.gif

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@TiminBC

I really think that it is more to do with the type of tobacco rather than the strength itself causing the problem for me. For instance I don't remember having the same effects after I fired up a Padron. I especially pointed out Liga Privada T52 because it is supposed to consist of tobacco from several different countries. Maybe say I have a specific problem with Dominican tobacco?

@Orion

Yeah I'm not planning to smoke a T52 anytime soon :) However I really hope/believe that DE isn't doing anything artificial with the Liga Privada line. Though I've never tried a flavored cigar so you really shouldn't take my word on it :)

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Like your title, this topic can be seen as serious or ridiculous and it is up to what each person thinks..... With that being said, I've had the same thing happen to me - only once- and it was with a Nicaraguan hoyo de-something and it was a bit too dry and burned too hot, singeing my tongue.... Couldn't taste a thing for days..... It wasn't very funny then but it's hilarious now that I look back on it.....

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The only thing I ever tasted after smoking NC's was liken to a cat trowing up on a roof shingle, rolling up the roof shingle,dipping it in chemicals, lighting it up and smoking it.

(Yes that especially includes the Padron Anni's!!)

im not sure i would go that far with ALL NCs. but there are a ton of them out there where up to 24 hours after you smoke them there is a residual flavor in the mouth. and it does change the way you taste things.

a few do not have this quality and they tend to be the mild higher end stuff like the Davidoff thousand series.

part of this is due to the huge amounts of ligero packed into NCs these days. for people that are fans of tasting their cigars and not being sick, the NC market and its current fad for power is not for them. a good mild or medium NC is hard to come by. this is one of the reasons why i have been pushed to CCs as of late.

and on a semi-related note...

I dont understand the infatuation with the Padron Anniversery series. overpriced with nothing interesting going on. I have never smoked one that i was impressed with.

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I have definitely had that "ash tray mouth" taste the next day after smoking some inferior NCs. Never licked an ash tray, but presume that is how it would taste! Never happened with a CC. Not to say that every CC has been stellar, but even the bad ones never left my mouth tasting foul the next day.

When I read the title it did seem as a funny title someone would use to denigrate NC cigars, but reading on, the post definitely did not intend that. I guess having a bad cigar is similar to having hot/spicy food or similar that can adversely affect the pallet.

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While I've had some good NC's, I never had a NC that left a very pleasant aftertaste in my mouth like with a few CC's I've had. One of them was an excellent 98 party 898v, probably one of the best cigars I've smoked. Recently the La Escepcion left an amazing taste behind, and a recent Sir Winston as well. Never had these experiences with NC's...plus it's been a while since I've had one.

Moral of the story is, smoke CC's. party.gif

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The only time I was ever physically ill after smoking a cigar was a NC fine the opus x and it was definitely a "too much ligero leaf" syndrome issue... I suppose you gotta do what you can to be the best.... I do still like a good Fuentes robusto every now and again....

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