Ssmith114 Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 Hey guys! I have to opportunity to grab this wine cooler at a pretty decent price.. I'm currently using a 90 quart coolidor for all my boxes and have been thinking about upgrading to something a little better.. For now funds are limited so I've been looking for a used wine cooler to use.. I have absolutely no experience with these so if you guys could point me in the right direction that would be great? I know a lot of guys use wine coolers I just have no clue what to look for.. Any help/info would be great! Thanks! It doesn't look like it has any digital readout which I'm not too concerned about i just don't want to buy this then down the road realize I could have bought a new one for a few bucks more that was better.. This is a discontinued model.. Marvel Model # 61WC 50 bottle capacity Performance 6.1 cubic feet of storage Forced air ventilation allows zero-clearance installation Dual-pane, Tinted, UV-resistant glass door Leveling legs for easy installation 5 pull-out , 2 fixed chrome plated wire shelves Operation is whisper quiet Baked acrylic enamel finish Field reversible door swing makes side-by-side installation easy Seamless molded interiors are easy to clean Full length integrated door handle Temperature range: 42 - 64 degrees F Warranty: One year parts and labor. Five years parts on compressor and sealed system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krs Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 You might want to go for a thermoelectric model, the compressors will suck the humidity out of the air. Unless you have a strong humidifier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyfall Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 You might want to go for a thermoelectric model, the compressors will suck the humidity out of the air. Unless you have a strong humidifier. Actually done properly a compressor unit is much more efficient, accurate and dependable than Thermometric. In fact in many climates thermoelectric units can be very detrimental to cigars. I wouldn't use anything else but a modified compressor unit. If you do a forum search, there are many many threads talking about this exact subject. Ray (Pigfish) has elaborated plenty on this subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssmith114 Posted March 29, 2013 Author Share Posted March 29, 2013 Thanks guys! I actually have read some threads where Pigfish has talked about that.. Being this is a compressor type and 50 bottle cooler for the price I was wondering if this would be a good buy? Or is their something out there that I can buy new for a few dollars more? I'd like to get something with at least a 40 bottle capacity so i have some room to grow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadianbeaver Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 My wine fridge does an incredible job and if you can believe it I do not even plug it in. I bought a digital hydrometer / thermostat and it always reads 65/65 with my gel beads humidification unit. I also keep a box of baking soda in there're for any stray fridge odours. The light does not turn on but the thing is so full it would be blocked anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PigFish Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 Hey guys! I have to opportunity to grab this wine cooler at a pretty decent price.. I'm currently using a 90 quart coolidor for all my boxes and have been thinking about upgrading to something a little better.. For now funds are limited so I've been looking for a used wine cooler to use.. I have absolutely no experience with these so if you guys could point me in the right direction that would be great? I know a lot of guys use wine coolers I just have no clue what to look for.. Any help/info would be great! Thanks! It doesn't look like it has any digital readout which I'm not too concerned about i just don't want to buy this then down the road realize I could have bought a new one for a few bucks more that was better.. This is a discontinued model.. Marvel Model # 61WC 50 bottle capacity Performance 6.1 cubic feet of storage Forced air ventilation allows zero-clearance installation Dual-pane, Tinted, UV-resistant glass door Leveling legs for easy installation 5 pull-out , 2 fixed chrome plated wire shelves Operation is whisper quiet Baked acrylic enamel finish Field reversible door swing makes side-by-side installation easy Seamless molded interiors are easy to clean Full length integrated door handle Temperature range: 42 - 64 degrees F Warranty: One year parts and labor. Five years parts on compressor and sealed system I would need more detailed data to comment beyond general comments. What is the price? Beyond that, this appears to be a compressor model. This is good! HOWEVER!!! It appears that the cooling coil on this unit wraps around the back, upper half and two side walls for some percentage of the side wall area. Please varify. If this is the case I would reject this unit! Why? You will have no means to control the condensation on the evaporation coil and therefore never be able to protect the cigars from the coil or water condensing on the coil practically or easily. I cannot write a book here on theory, however my systems are based on the separation of the coil from the cigars for numerous reasons. Regarding compressor units. IMHO they are the only ones to buy! TE units will only work if the delta on the ambient verses storage preference is next to nothing. A little research around the sight where members discuss candidly the problems with their TE unit coolers and you will find this out in a hurry. A cooler this size, well a little smaller say 4.5 cu. ft. is typically around 300 to 400 USD these days. With the coil configuration that I am noticing, it would take me a lot of rework to make this work, if at all. Controlling compressor style coolers is really a big part of one of these projects. You must use a good quality programmable logic controller or parametric controller to get these to be real top performing coolers. If you do that, and spend a little time on design you will have a system that out performs systems retailing for $4000 or more. With the right parts, at the right price, you can build a better humidor than any of the top selling models for about $1500 for a top shelf job. If you buy bare parts, do all the work yourself, do a little 'hack work' if you are not really skilled at this kind of stuff, you can substantially reduce this cost and still get some good results. Good parts are part of the job, good design and a good cooler to start with are also important parts. Lastly... The TE/Compressor cooler debate is junk science. The fact is that when water vapor is cooled to the dew point, condensation occurs. That is the end of the story. If your cooler is cooling, and has enough ability to absorb the energy produced by the outside environment, then it typically cools well below the dew point in order to do the job. Any surface, cooled below the dew point will cause condensation. Period! It does not matter the process to cool the surface. If the surface cools to the dew point or below, you get condensation!!! If you get condensation, well guess what? You get that from the space where your cigars are stored and the rH is gonna' drop. Good luck on your project. -the Pigg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssmith114 Posted March 29, 2013 Author Share Posted March 29, 2013 I would need more detailed data to comment beyond general comments. What is the price? Beyond that, this appears to be a compressor model. This is good! HOWEVER!!! It appears that the cooling coil on this unit wraps around the back, upper half and two side walls for some percentage of the side wall area. Please varify. If this is the case I would reject this unit! Why? You will have no means to control the condensation on the evaporation coil and therefore never be able to protect the cigars from the coil or water condensing on the coil practically or easily. I cannot write a book here on theory, however my systems are based on the separation of the coil from the cigars for numerous reasons. Regarding compressor units. IMHO they are the only ones to buy! TE units will only work if the delta on the ambient verses storage preference is next to nothing. A little research around the sight where members discuss candidly the problems with their TE unit coolers and you will find this out in a hurry. A cooler this size, well a little smaller say 4.5 cu. ft. is typically around 300 to 400 USD these days. With the coil configuration that I am noticing, it would take me a lot of rework to make this work, if at all. Controlling compressor style coolers is really a big part of one of these projects. You must use a good quality programmable logic controller or parametric controller to get these to be real top performing coolers. If you do that, and spend a little time on design you will have a system that out performs systems retailing for $4000 or more. With the right parts, at the right price, you can build a better humidor than any of the top selling models for about $1500 for a top shelf job. If you buy bare parts, do all the work yourself, do a little 'hack work' if you are not really skilled at this kind of stuff, you can substantially reduce this cost and still get some good results. Good parts are part of the job, good design and a good cooler to start with are also important parts. Lastly... The TE/Compressor cooler debate is junk science. The fact is that when water vapor is cooled to the dew point, condensation occurs. That is the end of the story. If your cooler is cooling, and has enough ability to absorb the energy produced by the outside environment, then it typically cools well below the dew point in order to do the job. Any surface, cooled below the dew point will cause condensation. Period! It does not matter the process to cool the surface. If the surface cools to the dew point or below, you get condensation!!! If you get condensation, well guess what? You get that from the space where your cigars are stored and the rH is gonna' drop. Good luck on your project. -the Pigg Pigfish thank you for that detailed explanation! I do know this is a compressor style unit although I don't know exactly where it's located.. I found this for sale on Craigslist and the guy is asking $175 but I'm sure I can get him to come down some as he seems like he just wants to get rid of it.. If I could get it cheaper would it be worth taking on as a project? I don't mind a little project but I really wouldn't know where to begin. You said I would need a quality programmable logic controller or parametric controller would you be able to point me in the right direction for one? Also is there somewhere I could look for a detailed schematics of a good cooling system so I could get an general idea on how to set this one up? I appreciate all your help and taking time to properly explain everything to me.. Shawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssmith114 Posted March 29, 2013 Author Share Posted March 29, 2013 My wine fridge does an incredible job and if you can believe it I do not even plug it in. I bought a digital hydrometer / thermostat and it always reads 65/65 with my gel beads humidification unit. I also keep a box of baking soda in there're for any stray fridge odours. The light does not turn on but the thing is so full it would be blocked anyway. I was thinking about doing the same thing! Just until I was able to set it up proper.. It wasn't the cheapest one I found but it was the biggest one and compared to a new one of that size it doesn't seem to be too bad of a price.. I just don't want to pass this up if its goin to be a good deal in the long run.. Thanks for responding Lisa! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PigFish Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 Don't have time to talk more on this today, but you can email me in my profile. You missed what I am saying about the evap coil... If the coil wraps around the back, I would reject the cooler. All for now. -P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw15825 Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 I need to follow this too. I have coolers and would really like to build a Quality Humi/cooler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssmith114 Posted March 29, 2013 Author Share Posted March 29, 2013 Don't have time to talk more on this today, but you can email me in my profile. You missed what I am saying about the evap coil... If the coil wraps around the back, I would reject the cooler. All for now. -P I apologize I took it as if the cooling system wraps around the back that you could just replace it with one more efficient.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyfall Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 I apologize I took it as if the cooling system wraps around the back that you could just replace it with one more efficient.. For a little more, you can find an upright freezer on Craigslist. Or find a small compact freezer at Wal mart. As long as the freezer is a frost free model, and you modify it with a thermostat control, that is one of the better options. I've built several units out if wine coolers and freezers over the years and they work extremely well. The modified frost free upright freezer route is my favorite way to go. If you do a forum search for "the vault", a member had shared his project with us all, it's great!! It's similar to mine, I don't use individual containers inside mine, and I have additional timed fans, beads and active humidification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssmith114 Posted March 30, 2013 Author Share Posted March 30, 2013 For a little more, you can find an upright freezer on Craigslist. Or find a small compact freezer at Wal mart. As long as the freezer is a frost free model, and you modify it with a thermostat control, that is one of the better options. I've built several units out if wine coolers and freezers over the years and they work extremely well. The modified frost free upright freezer route is my favorite way to go. If you do a forum search for "the vault", a member had shared his project with us all, it's great!! It's similar to mine, I don't use individual containers inside mine, and I have additional timed fans, beads and active humidification. I'll def have to check that thread out! I've never heard of anyone using a frost free freezer before but I certainly like the idea.. Thanks for sharing that Skyfall! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stargazer14 Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 Seeing you are from PA, do you really need to have this running? I used a fridge for years, never had it running, just kept it in a cool place with beads, never an issue. Yes, it can get hot for a few weeks here in PA but if you keep it in the basement, or against the concrete wall in the garage it should be stable. If its for inside the house and you have A/C, then humidity upkeep is your only worry. Piggy knows his stuff, but not everyone needs all that. Just saying. I use an old sterilizing cabinet as a humidor now, its in my office, looks great, no plugs, works awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1LegLance Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 I will agree on the fact that the first thing to think about is IF YOU NEED TO COOL AT ALL??? I live in Phoenix Arizona the land of eternal inferno and I don't plug in either of my wine coolers. They both sit in the coolest/darkest room in the house and even in the summer I don't see higher than 75 deg F Now now I know you are all freaking about 75deg F vs the holy number of 60 whatever. But after 20+ years of cigar smoking running everything from desktops to igloo coolers to a 19 cubic foot upright freezer (spanish cedar lined and modified temp controler) to a cigar closet in the house....well I have found that as long as I maintain 63-65% my cigars taste great TO ME. Now living here in the desert we never have too much humidity so not sure that would mean needing temp control but again before you buy/reject any humidor setup please think about if you REALLY need temp control. Oh and for me the best thing about the wine coolers is the glass door that lets me stare in lust at what is waiting inside, and keeps me from opening the units until I am pretty sure I know what I want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PigFish Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 These are valid points about cooling. I always encourage those wishing my advice to ask themselves why they are doing what they are doing, before attempting to do it!!! I don't cool my cigars! I know that sounds odd coming from me, but I know exactly what "I" do and why I do it. I would encourage those embarking on a new humidor project to do the same soul searching. Many people I talk to don't really know why they want to do what they want to do. It is pretty simple as I see it. They are emulating someone or something as they value their collection and they don't wish to damage it. Not having the experience yet to make the decision without the comfort of a form of mentor; they seek the advice of others. I think we have all been there! I know I have. All my systems, except my Aristocrat have coolers. And soon they will have heaters too! Here is why. I am very picky about how my cigars are stored. Not everyone is as picky as me. I clean my shower every time after I use it!!! Not that I am AR... but I respect what I build and buy. I change my own oil... If I could do my own hip surgery, I would do it myself. That is how I am! What this means is that I don't really like to leave things to chance. I trust myself and my judgement over that of others. It is how I am wired. Back to cigars. I have been smoking them a long time. I know what I like. You can call me closed minded now if you like. I mean why emulate a bad experience when I can emulate a good one? This is what history teaches us. Wisdom is the ability to discern the best path of risk verses reward, amongst other things. I like my cigars to have a certain amount of water in them. Too much water and they taste foul to me. Too little, and they don't taste bad, but they risk damage from breakage. A while back I wrote a little about rH and temperature and how that affects your cigars. It was a bit of a proxy battle between some common theories about cigar storage, rH and temperature; the people who represent one side and me on the other. Many of us agree that water content, percent moisture content of cigars affects their taste. With proof that percent moisture content is affected by both temperature and humidity, it is pretty clear to me that if I want to continue to have the same smoking experience day in and day out, I needed to control both. While this might not be everyone's reason for controlling temperature, it is mine. I like stability. And I don't like having to guess what my cigars are going to taste like. I like my beer cold. So I keep it in a fridge! I like my cigars a certain way too. So I keep them that way!!! If you knew that temperature and rH had a role in how well your cigars smoked, the question is, would you take the steps to control it? Understanding what you want, and why you want it, to me at least, is an important part of the mindset. You, must decide that for yourself. It is all about the smoking experience to me. I want a great one every time and if I can have a say about it, I will take mystery out of it. Cheers and happy building! -Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssmith114 Posted March 30, 2013 Author Share Posted March 30, 2013 You guys make some great valid points.. Here in PA the weather doesn't get to crazy one way or the other except for maybe a few weeks in the summer but I've always kept my humidors and coolers in my basement.. Ive never seen any of them reach over 70 degrees using Heartfelts 65% beads.. That being said I prob don't need to have it running and then if for some reason down the road if I start seeing temperature spikes then I can look more into a efficient cooling system.. And that will give me some time to do more research on everything Pigfish has talked about.. I appreciate everyone who responded and shared their expertise on this subject! Thanks y'all!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyfall Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 In Texas, I have no choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PigFish Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 In Texas, I have no choice. I don't have one either mate! The temp on Isla PigFish can range 40 dF in a day and my home not wanting to be left out in the cold, changes right along with it!!! I don't really like my cigars ranging. They are the only stable things in my life!!! -LOL Cheers, Piggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socapots Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Some good reading here. Thanks to the OP for asking the question. And to Pig fish for some more things for me to research. Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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