My Take on The Partagas Shenanigans

[El Presidente]

Nino's thread on the subject is essential reading. If you haven't done so, read it.

What I love about "when the crap hits the fan" in the Cuban Cigar Industry is that it is more difficult to get anyone to talk about the story after the event.....yet they all talked openly of the situation that caused the rucus prior!!!!!!

The Partagas "Mafia" has been in operation for many years. It was an open secret akin to the Manuel Garcia "Habanos B" operation. Most in the "know" knew. Everyone turned a blind eye. Those who raised suspicions were at best waved away and at worst ostracized.

Factory managers are in a powerful position. Tens of thousands of cigars being produced per day and access to all aspects of product and packaging. Those factory managers with direct access to visiting cigar aficionados, retailers and distributors are in an even more powerful position. Temptation to operate outside of the system is compelling for obvious reasons.

Now I am not here to throw brickbats at Abel

What intrigues me is what is going to occur to all those "outside of Cuba" who aided and abbetted this fraud.

Will they be investigated, taken down or at least reprimanded or will it again be only the Cuban side of the equation that falls on its sword?

If what I have been told is correct, computer records, overseas bank accounts and a plethora of correspondence has been seized. The trail to internal and external players has been well documented.

If the Cuban Cigar Industry is serious about cleaning up the fraud that has been shown to be endemic over the past 12 years, then all participants need to be exposed and penalized IN PUBLIC VIEW

When one side of the industry is paid a pittance and the participants of fraud are coerced by those outside of Cuba, then cannot it be said that the greater weight of responsibility falls on those who have paid/encouraged for the fraud to be perpetuated?

You can start to see now why all Factory tours in Havana have been stopped. It is my understanding that Partagas when refubished will be the only tour available and even that is under review.

Should this eventuate it will be disappointing as cigar purists will be denied the opportunity of experiencing something special.

In any illegal exchange between Foreigners and Cubans it has been the Cubans who wear the brunt when the crap hits the fan. It is an unfair burden of risk. The foreigners avoid going to Cuba for a few years, the Cubans go to jail and lose everything.

I sincerely hope that this time it does not end that way. Let the Partagas situation be fully investigated and let all involved (inside and outside of Cuba) be taken down.

[KyleHaldane]

Well said very well said in fact.

[brazoseagle]

What the hell is a Brickbat?

[Munts]

What the hell is a Brickbat?

Haha i thought that some people wouldnt understand that when i read it.

Todays lession by Dr. Munts

brick·bat

n.

1. A piece, especially of brick, used as a weapon or missile.

2. An unfavorable remark; a criticism.

Word History: The earliest sense of brickbat, first recorded in 1563, was "a piece of brick." Such pieces of brick have not infrequently been thrown at others in the hope of injuring them; hence, the figurative brickbats (first recorded in 1929) that critics hurl at performances they dislike. The appearance of bat as the second part of this compound is explained by the fact that the word bat, "war club, cudgel," developed in Middle English the sense "chunk, clod, wad," and in the 16th century came to be used specifically for a piece of brick that was unbroken on one end.

[Overproof]

Not to be confused with throwing brick-a-brack haha

[OZCUBAN]

Well said Rob

Cannot agree more with your statement.

It always takes two to Tango and the Cubans shouldn't be the ones that always take the wrap.

if some of these overseas persons of interest ,own reputable stores etc etc ,maybe a revoke of their licenses should be in order,but maybe they are from a seedier underground network or Grey market .

Thanks for your take on this Rob very intriguing

Steve

[Colt45]

What intrigues me is what is going to occur to all those "outside of Cuba" who aided and abbetted this fraud.

Will they be investigated, taken down or at least reprimanded.....

If Imperial has a say, I'd imagine they'd demand it.

And then there are the abetting collectors.....

[AverageJoe83]

Well, I didnt even know this kind of corruption was even going on, but in hindsight I guess it makes sense. There are corrupt business practices in every other form goods and services, why should I be surprised its also in cuban cugars. Though I do agree Rob that it is unfair that the Cubans will bear the brunt of the punishment.

[Ryan]

In any illegal exchange between Foreigners and Cubans it has been the Cubans who wear the brunt when the crap hits the fan. It is an unfair burden of risk. The foreigners avoid going to Cuba for a few years, the Cubans go to jail and lose everything.

I sincerely hope that this time it does not end that way. Let the Partagas situation be fully investigated and let all involved (inside and outside of Cuba) be taken down.

Great post.

I really hope the list of "foreigners" gets published.

Many times I've seen cigar "collectors" and retailers pull, or try to pull, some fairly scummy stuff. It's not just Cubans I've seen them treat as an expendable commodity for their own gain either.

[ajgagnon]

Good call, Pres.

[Nino]

Nino's thread on the subject is essential reading. If you haven't done so, read it.

Thank you Rob - I lack the deeper insight you have, it was just my own recollection of events and reactions plus the fake cigars being sold openly by the "small guys", although this is also a large industry locally profiting from the fake sales.

What I love about "when the crap hits the fan" in the Cuban Cigar Industry is that it is more difficult to get anyone to talk about the story after the event.....yet they all talked openly of the situation that caused the rucus prior!!!!!!

The Partagas "Mafia" has been in operation for many years. It was an open secret akin to the Manuel Garcia "Habanos B" operation. Most in the "know" knew. Everyone turned a blind eye. Those who raised suspicions were at best waved away and at worst ostracized.

I agree with you on the "most in the know knew" part. Sometimes it looked like sharks in a feeding frenzy when it was "order time" during the Festival - hard not to see, observe or hear the remarks...

Factory managers are in a powerful position. Tens of thousands of cigars being produced per day and access to all aspects of product and packaging. Those factory managers with direct access to visiting cigar aficionados, retailers and distributors are in an even more powerful position. Temptation to operate outside of the system is compelling for obvious reasons.

Now I am not here to throw brickbats at Abel

What intrigues me is what is going to occur to all those "outside of Cuba" who aided and abbetted this fraud.

My bet is no.

Will they be investigated, taken down or at least reprimanded or will it again be only the Cuban side of the equation that falls on its sword?

That.

The sword will fall on the Cubans. If at all, a slight slap on the wrist of the "outsiders", unless, of course, there are some that "need to be punished" but mainly for other reasons. In any case, the Cubans in charge will have a lever against them and they might, just might, be more careful next time ... until greed eats brains again, on both sides.

If what I have been told is correct, computer records, overseas bank accounts and a plethora of correspondence has been seized. The trail to internal and external players has been well documented.

If the Cuban Cigar Industry is serious about cleaning up the fraud that has been shown to be endemic over the past 12 years, then all participants need to be exposed and penalized IN PUBLIC VIEW

Who'd profit from that ? Won't happen. Would be omelette on everyone's face.

When one side of the industry is paid a pittance and the participants of fraud are coerced by those outside of Cuba, then cannot it be said that the greater weight of responsibility falls on those who have paid/encouraged for the fraud to be perpetuated?

Rob, again, you have deeper insight, but from my point of view it would be like the parable of who was first, the chicken or the egg.

You can start to see now why all Factory tours in Havana have been stopped. It is my understanding that Partagas when refubished will be the only tour available and even that is under review.

Should this eventuate it will be disappointing as cigar purists will be denied the opportunity of experiencing something special.

In any illegal exchange between Foreigners and Cubans it has been the Cubans who wear the brunt when the crap hits the fan. It is an unfair burden of risk. The foreigners avoid going to Cuba for a few years, the Cubans go to jail and lose everything.

I sincerely hope that this time it does not end that way. Let the Partagas situation be fully investigated and let all involved (inside and outside of Cuba) be taken down.

Amen to that - we'll see.

Nino

[Diamondog]

I wonder how interested and cooperative other govts around the globe are/will be interested in taking action on this on Cubas and their own behalf

[CaptainQuintero]

Great post.

I really hope the list of "foreigners" gets published.

Many times I've seen cigar "collectors" and retailers pull, or try to pull, some fairly scummy stuff. It's not just Cubans I've seen them treat as an expendable commodity for their own gain either.

x2 publish publish publish, but I'm guessing the people/retailers with real sway who have had no problem taking advantage of people locked in a system such as Cuba's will walk away smelling of roses. It's pretty rare when the real movers and shakers get caught with their trousers down and are not given an opportunity to pull them up and walk away :/

[canadianbeaver]

Thee retailers of whom you speak. Are these the ones, let's say online, who sell tons of cigars under the guise of Habanos? Are they B&M retailers who obtain cigars by mules? Grey market?

The demand for Cuban cigars is so high that obviously the source is secondary to the age old question, "are they real?".

I suspect that the request to publish publish publish will not make many smokers happy. Be careful what you wish for. I don't want my name to accidently show up on one of these lists :-(

[CaptainQuintero]

I suspect that the request to publish publish publish will not make many smokers happy. Be careful what you wish for. I don't want my name to accidently show up on one of these lists :-(

Unless there is something you want to share I think you're overestimating your personal influence in Cuba

But seriously, surely every smoker and lover of Cuba, it's people and products want to see those responsible named and shamed at the very least? If not then you have to be advocating the practices?

Maybe I'm just old fashioned!

[canadianbeaver]

No No No, absolutely not! Of course whoever is doing things wrong should be punished to every extent of the law. I am just concerend about the farther afield companies outside of Cuba that may be affected? Of course, as usual, I may just be full of it.

[Charltonc]

What does shame do? I understand wanting to know sources named, but until you place yourself in their shoes of others it is just not that easy. Acceptance, forgiveness, boundaries, and empathy are appropriate, but then again I am a god damn psychotherapist that talks about feelings all day.

[Dara]

Great post.

I really hope the list of "foreigners" gets published.

Many times I've seen cigar "collectors" and retailers pull, or try to pull, some fairly scummy stuff. It's not just Cubans I've seen them treat as an expendable commodity for their own gain either.

Completely agree with this!

Sadly I'd bet that it will only be the Cubans who'll be punished as I'd imagine the way Habanos will see it (a very short sighted view in my opinion) is that the Cubans are taking money out of Habanos pockets while the overseas retailers and collectors are still putting money into Habanos pocket, even if it is less than they should be putting in!

Now maybe if they have a retailer who they're already unhappy with and has some connection to this, then they might make an example of them but otherwise I suspect they won't touch anyone outside of Cuba!

[CaptainQuintero]

What does shame do? I understand wanting to know sources named, but until you place yourself in their shoes of others it is just not that easy. Acceptance, forgiveness, boundaries, and empathy are appropriate, but then again I am a god damn psychotherapist that talks about feelings all day.

It's just a phrase here 'named and shamed', it's like if you catch someone red handed they don't really have red hands, well most of the time

[Canadahamlet]

I enjoyed reading your take on the Abel situation.

The co-conspirators know if they go back to Cuba they will be arrested and tried under the Cuban Criminal Justice system. Not much of a chance of them going back, unless they are brain dead.

Can you blame a Cuban for wanting a piece of the oodles (by their standards) of cash they see? Can you blame them for feeling resentful when they see someone else's family benefit from the cigar black market but not theirs? Especially when "gaming the system" is the national sport of Cuba.

"Hope and legal opportunity" are two things that are in short supply in Havana. Shorter supply than authentic collectible cigars

It used to be a Cuban was discreet about making black market money more for the fear they would have to cut every Cuban in on it who was aware of the enterprise, including the police. Just making sure the right people were paid off bought a Cuban safety....there used to be safety in numbers in Cuba. Apparently not anymore.

Had Abel been born in a different country or time, he may have succeeded doing business legimately, as it was, he had no choice. Everyone involved outside of Cuba had and continue to have a choice of how to do business.

[El Presidente]

Thee retailers of whom you speak. Are these the ones, let's say online, who sell tons of cigars under the guise of Habanos? Are they B&M retailers who obtain cigars by mules? Grey market?

The demand for Cuban cigars is so high that obviously the source is secondary to the age old question, "are they real?".

I suspect that the request to publish publish publish will not make many smokers happy. Be careful what you wish for. I don't want my name to accidently show up on one of these lists :-(

Lisa, B&M retailers who mule product from Partagas are not a concern to me.

It is about theft of standard product through private backdoor deals, development of custom product for private benefit utilising state and HSA resources, the likely production of super high end fakes.

[El Presidente]

Had Abel been born in a different country or time, he may have succeeded doing business legimately, as it was, he had no choice. Everyone involved outside of Cuba had and continue to have a choice of how to do business.

I certainly don't want to defend him in any way. Once the cards fall and the true extent realised, I doubt there will be much sympathy for him.

Great business model. Cash from foreigners + steal all resources to meet order..... from employer = massive amounts of money.

Almost every Cuban needs to do something on the side simply to get by. We have discussed it on FOH many times. The Partagas situation is a little more than that. The scale and bredth of the deception staggering.

After Manuel Garcia fiasco, the sacking of many factory managers over the years and now Abel. There is no doubt a serious problem.

Abel was not working alone. It will be interesting to watch who else quietly disappears from Partagas over the coming month or two.

[Canadahamlet]

Great business model. Cash from foreigners + steal all resources to meet order..... from employer = massive amounts of money.

Abel was not working alone. It will be interesting to watch who else quietly disappears from Partagas over the coming month or two.

No question Cuban authorities are going after the bigger fish, they are "shooting up not down". To your credit you have not piled on him. I am not defending him either, i have never liked the Partagas shop. Just trying to give some context which I think you have done as well. I am also unaware of the scale of his alleged crime.

[Orion21]

So let me get this straight, and please tell me where I am wrong . . .

This Abel guy is accused of orchestrating this huge grey market in stolen, but legit Cuban cigars? Or did he have a rolling operation on the side using stolen tobacco or both? He and others are accused of smuggling millions of cigars out of Cuba and then selling them on the grey market. Am I correct to this point? Then the next logical question would be; who would buy these cigars in such bulk? Are we talking about the distributors around the world buying legit cigars from HSA and buying grey market on the side and selling them to select grey market vendors? That would be the obvious choice because the distribution and shipping is already in place.

[El Presidente]

So let me get this straight, and please tell me where I am wrong . . .

This Abel guy is accused of orchestrating this huge grey market in stolen, but legit Cuban cigars? Or did he have a rolling operation on the side using stolen tobacco or both? He and others are accused of smuggling millions of cigars out of Cuba and then selling them on the grey market. Am I correct to this point? Then the next logical question would be; who would buy these cigars in such bulk? Are we talking about the distributors around the world buying legit cigars from HSA and buying grey market on the side and selling them to select grey market vendors? That would be the obvious choice because the distribution and shipping is already in place.

The details will come out in due course course. The above scenario you described was close to the Garcia one. Most distributors however have nothing to do with shenanigans. This is particularly so given that most have a 50% HSA ownership.