The biggest difference in certain cigars over the past decade?

[El Presidente]

We have had some discussion about Juan Lopez over the past couple of days and how they are stronger post 2007 than Pre.

Most of you will have your favourite cigars that you have purchased consistently over the past decade.

To your taste and experience, what have been the cigars that have been most consistent in terms of flavour? Which cigars have been the least consistent and more importantly, which cigars have you noticed a definitive change in blend ...try to nail the period in which they have changed.

[88keys]

Maybe ancient history, but ...

Ten years ago Hoyo Epicure #1 was my favorite. They were on the light side of medium, smooth, and had a fruit aroma. I got an '05 cab and was surprised and baffled that they were stronger, harsh, and the fruit was gone. I then managed to get some '01s which were definitely old style. My latest cab is GLA Sep 08 and I still don't like them.

I have a regret list of women and one of cigars. Top of the cigar list is R&J Churchill. Old guys will agree. Second is Montecristo #2. Others may not agree here. I actually think habanos are better today across the board, but the greatness of these is long gone.

Least consistent for me have been BBF. From awesome to trash.

Most consistent have been Partagas Shorts and R&J Cedros #3 (don't laugh! I like 'em. Anyway they taste the same as ever)

[Smallclub]

Ten years ago Hoyo Epicure #1 was my favorite. They were on the light side of medium, smooth, and had a fruit aroma. I got an '05 cab and was surprised and baffled that they were stronger, harsh, and the fruit was gone.

Agreed. Something happened to this blend around 2005. Those tested in 2006 were terrible, really unpleasant. I smoked a 2011 last month, it was very good, but in the style of the Epicure Especiale, not the "old style" Epic #1…

Bolivar Royal Corona : before 2008, it was IMHO one of the less interesting Bolivar (I have had a box from 2001 and a box from 2004). Suddenly in 2008 they became much better than the BBF…

[mk05]

WTF happened list:

1) Entire Punch marca

2) HdM DC (pre97 was life changing experience)

3) RyJ, mostly the Churchill (pre97 was orgasmic experience)

4) Esplendido (that's #4 so tells you how upset I am with top 3)

5) Monte #2 (should be higher but I just refuse to smoke now)

6) Partagas, mostly D4

7) SLR Churchill (who smokes these now seriously)

I could go on...those were the most profoundly upsetting to me.

Can't yet comment on consistency. I can pick out outliers on a spectrum, but not yet comment on the field.

[aavkk]

good thread Rob, I'm interested to see the thoughts of the more experienced members. I know that I've gravitated for whatever reason to many of the least popular marcas (by HSA standards) such as RA, JL, LGC. Even in the more popular marcas I've found the least popular vitolas to be the most interesting blends, ie party SDC 1,2,3. This has of course lead to quite a headache dealing with the deletions every year. I leave the monte 2's and d4's of the world to those that like to gamble more.

So I'll ask you, do you also find that the cigars made in the fewest quantities are made to a more exacting standard? If so do you attribute that to the fact that many of these cigars are rolled under one roof? ie every RA seems to be rolled out of the Partagas factory.

[ramon_cojones]

I'll tell you guys what I think of 02 sir winnies soon

[gersonmorelli]

ERDM Choix Supreme is not a cigar that I smoke a lot, but I remember pre 08 they used to be a lot milder. Or maybe it was just one year that they became more of a medium body smoke, not sure if it was 08 or 09... Any regular smokers of these have noticed a difference in blend and/or strenght?

[mk05]

I'll tell you guys what I think of 02 sir winnies soon

Did aes tell you?!

*shakes fist*

[Smallclub]

I'll tell you guys what I think of 02 sir winnies soon

Compared to what? Isn't the thread about "biggest difference"?

[aes8]

Maybe ancient history, but ...

Top of the cigar list is R&J Churchill. Old guys will agree. Second is Montecristo #2. Others may not agree here.

I actually think habanos are better today across the board, but the greatness of these is long gone.

^^^

This, however every once in a great while I get a taste of the past greatness in a new cigar but it is rare occasion

[aes8]

Did aes tell you?!

*shakes fist*

Actually he told me.

[Daidemo]

There was definitely change in the blend in Hoyo Epicure No.1 and No.2 as well in JL Seleccion No.1 / 2 over last 5-7 years. They were my regular light to medium bodied smokes for years and from 2005 something changed – they are now much harsher and need far more time for aging. Typical examples are from 2005 and 2007 (EAM NOV05, TGR DIC05, FIM NOV05, TMO MAY07…)

OTOH I believe that they have good (not great) potential for aging but only time will tell. As it is now I am trying to obtain pre 2005 production (2003 was just great) and hope that 2008+ will be different.

[PigFish]

... the A-holes at Tabacuba, H SA et al are killing the best cigars they make, have made over the past 10 years. That is the gist of my experience and what affects me the most.

Executives at H SA et al should be burnt at the stake. I will supply the fuel.

-Piggy

[canadianbeaver]

Most educational thread yet... Carry on and thank you.

[ksblazer]

Never cared much for the Boli Royal Coronas of old, but recently they have became my favorite Bolivar.

[maverickdrinker]

I find that the quality of tobacco and the construction of cigars since 2006 has been outstanding. 2011 is arguably the strongest example of great Cuban tobacco in over a decade...

[ramon_cojones]

I agree with this post I think 2011 will be legendary.

[canadianbeaver]

Here's a thought. Taste and profile aside, could the discontinuing of certain marcas overshadow these important cigar attributes and make smokers buy these cigars (sometimes at a premium) just to have them before they are gone?

I love LGC #2's. Just found a box and I really did not care if they were 2007, 2010 etc. I just know they were going to be impossible to locate later.

And here's another. Could the prejudice about 1999-2001 cigars, based on the folklore about the plugging history keep the good ones from being purchased and enjoyed? Are there tons of orphaned boxes out there just waiting to find owners?

[Charltonc]

I still smoke SLR Churchills. The 05s, 07s, and 09s are pretty damn good, but I think I am hooked to SLR. On that note I think I am going to smoke a SLR corona.

[Guybrush]

Partasgas Lusitanias are now very mild and boring! :-(

(May 08)

[Guybrush]

Diplomaticos No.2

Feb 07: mild, grassy, woody, vanilla

Mar 08: medium, tons of nutmeg

[pnutbutrsangwich]

How about the Quai D'Orsay Imperiales? Pre-06 this was a mild, boring cigar. However 2008 and more recent examples have been decidedly medium-bodied and with much fuller flavor. The blend of flavors hasn't changed, per se. However the strength mix has definitely been adjusted.

[DrunkenMonkey]

Partasgas Lusitanias are now very mild and boring! :-(

(May 08)

I Couldn't disagree more.

[Scdalak]

Basically the entire R & J Marca, with the exception of the 2009 Duke EL's and a "few" select PSP/HQ boxes of Short Churchills i have come across, its all Wayyyyy too many vitolas, (serioulsy a "Petite Churchill"??) Wayyy too many crap cigars... Bloody Shame as this was the Marca that started me on Cubans... A legendary brand that as hit rock bottom with no end in sight. The negative responses I have read on the Churchhill GR at this years Habanos Festival pretty much says it all, if you can cant get a GR Right... call it a day..

Rob I also hear the new factory is almost Complete??

[riazp]

Basically the entire R & J Marca, with the exception of the 2009 Duke EL's and a "few" select PSP/HQ boxes of Short Churchills i have come across, its all Wayyyyy too many vitolas, (serioulsy a "Petite Churchill"??) Wayyy too many crap cigars... Bloody Shame as this was the Marca that started me on Cubans... A legendary brand that as hit rock bottom with no end in sight. The negative responses I have read on the Churchhill GR at this years Habanos Festival pretty much says it all, if you can cant get a GR Right... call it a day..

Gotta say I agree with you on this. RyJ has been subpar for the longest time. LIke you other than a few stellar boxes of RyJ Short churchills, i've had a lot of trouble finding a good stick.