International question on REs

[cottierm]

My question was as follows: do the regional REs correspond seriously to any real specificities reflecting the consumers' taste and preference in their niche markets?

Summarizing the answers received so far, here is a provisional picture:

- Asia Pacific RE: for the mid- or long term.

- UK RE: for historical significance.

- Canada (or more broadly the North American market): for large ring gauges.

- Spain RE: for immediate consumption and in memory of their 'rustic' favourites.

- German RE: for 'throwback' cigars.

- Mexican RE (also more broadly the North American market): for large ring gauges and literary connotations.

- French RE: for their morning kick.

- Chinese RE: for lots of sparkle and huge price tags.

Does that hold any truth? Or is it utter rubbish?

[Puros Y Vino]

Great hijack Michel.

I guess we could start by talking about the Canadian regionals. What can be said of them?

Here they are.

Bolívar Simones 2007 Hermosos No.4 48 x 127 (5.0") Corona Extra Bolívar Simones

Ramón Allones Petit Unicos 2009 Petit Pirámides 50 x 127 (5.0") Petit Pyramid Ramón Allones Petit Unicos

Vegas Robaina Petit Robaina 2009 Petit Edmundo 52 x 110 (4.3") Petit Robusto Vegas Robaina Petit Robaina

Bolívar B-2 2010 Pirámides 52 x 156 (6.1") Pyramid Bolívar B-2

Ramón Allones Gordito de Allones 2010 Gorditos 50 x 141 (5.6") Robusto Extra Ramón Allones Gordito de Allones

Juan López Supreme 2011 Edmundo 52 x 135 (5.3") Robusto Juan López Supreme

Ramón Allones Super Allones 2011 Rodolfo 54 x 180 (7.1") Double Pyramid Ramón Allones Super Allones

Here's what I see. Avg ring gauge in the 50's. Four brands. Bolivar, RA, VR and JL of which RA and Boli are repeat offenders. What is the Canadian market? How does Havana House profile the Canadian market? Are they using sales figure by brand and vitola perhaps. I see Pyramids and robustos well represented. is the average Canadian LCDH buyer "going for gold" when they buy a stick or do they have a "bang for buck" approach? Are these RE's representative of what Canadian cigar smokers are typically enjoying? Or is this selection a way to entice the Canadian buyer to try larger cigars or low performing brands?

Discuss amongst yourselves.

[Diamondog]

I have boxes of all 3 of these:

Bolívar B-2 2010 Pirámides 52 x 156 (6.1") Pyramid Bolívar B-2

Ramón Allones Gordito de Allones 2010 Gorditos 50 x 141 (5.6") Robusto Extra Ramón Allones Gordito de Allones

Ramón Allones Super Allones 2011 Rodolfo 54 x 180 (7.1") Double Pyramid Ramón Allones Super Allones

They are all wonderful smokes, doesn't hurt that I am a BIG RA and Boli fan, they are all sleeping nicely...

[cottierm]

So, Frank, if we try to be schematic in the extreme (maybe or maybe not), we can say, adding your conclusions to those of CQ, that:

- Asia Pacific RE: for the mid- or long term.

- UK RE: for historical significance.

- Canada (or more broadly the North American market): for large ring gauges.

Would that be the only defining factors for these three markets?

Best,

Michel

[Puros Y Vino]

So, Frank, if we try to be schematic in the extreme (maybe or maybe not), we can say, adding your conclusions to those of CQ, that:

- Asia Pacific RE: for the mid- or long term.

- UK RE: for historical significance.

- Canada (or more broadly the North American market): for large ring gauges.

Would that be the only defining factors for these three markets?

Best,

Michel

The Asian and UK markets seem to be easier to peg. I only offered speculation as to the NA market. Maybe the motif is larger ring gauges? Habanos knows that US smokers get their hands on CC's through Canada as one channel. Not the most economic of course. And given the US markets propensity for larger ring gauge cigars that's not a bad theory for the Canadian RE's. I've also read that the German market RE's tend to favour "throwback" cigars in that the blends are trying to mimic the blends of cigars from the late 1800's and early 1900's with strength being a key factor. I can't say that's consistent across the board though.

[cottierm]

To Shlomo and Diamondog: I'm less interested here in the inherent qualities or not of the different REs and more on the 'decision' factors of the different regional areas. In other words, can we say that the different Regionales respond to their particular geographical niches and, in the affirmative, how do you characterize each of these niches?

Best,

Michel

[cottierm]

Frank, thanks for your view on the German RE. I hope that our German friends will comment on that.

Best,

Michel

[cottierm]

Adding the remarks of Shlomo and Frank, we have now:

- Asia Pacific RE: for the mid- or long term.

- UK RE: for historical significance.

- Canada (or more broadly the North American market): for large ring gauges.

- Spain RE: for immediate consumption.

- German RE: for 'throwback' cigars.

Does that hold any truth?

[Puros Y Vino]

Adding the remark of Shlomo, we have now:

- Asia Pacific RE: for the mid- or long term.

- UK RE: for historical significance.

- Canada (or more broadly the North American market): for large ring gauges.

- Spain RE: for immediate consumption.

Does that hold true?

Sure. For fun let's add Mexico. Two RE's under the Edmundo Dantes name versus Montecristo due to trademark disputes. Perhaps we can peg Mexican RE's as having a literary significance? The Count of Monte Cristo is a fictional story. This story takes place in Europe. Is it well received/loved in Mexico? I've heard the stories of how the book was read to cigar rollers as they worked. But those rollers were in Cuba. So perhaps some romantic/historical tie to these RE's. And once again, we're looking at 50+ RG cigars that the USA market can access. That would help bolster our assertion on Canadian RE's.

[cottierm]

And so... we have now:

- Asia Pacific RE: for the mid- or long term.

- UK RE: for historical significance.

- Canada (or more broadly the North American market): for large ring gauges.

- Spain RE: for immediate consumption.

- German RE: for 'throwback' cigars.

- Mexican RE (also more broadly the North American market): for large ring gauges and literary connotations.

Does that hold any truth? Or is it utter rubbish?

[maverickdrinker]

No sure how the other countries selection process is for marca/vitola that they wanted to be produced as their regional release.

I know that in Canada, an email goes out asking which of the 4-5 different marcas/vitolas would be appealing to have produced. So far, the one with the most votes have been made.

[Zigatoh]

French REs: For the kick with your morning coffee! (at least the few I've tried...)

[CaptainQuintero]

Don't forget the China special releases

China releases-lots of sparkle, huge price tags!

Spain seems to be getting some modern versions of their rustic favourites like sancho panza.

-----

Agreed on the UK regionals, historic but sometimes naff, maybe the reasons why they were discontinued in the first place!!

[cottierm]

So Art: some CC retailers are consulted who spread the word to some of their faithful clients, and the results are compiled. Similar to what Rob was doing a few months ago, then?

Have you been consulted yourself at some point? And, if yes, did you 'recognize' yourself in the final choices made at that time?

Best,

Michel

[Smallclub]

Does that hold any truth?

No. And IMO when it comes to habanos the best way to go wrong it is to generalize…

[Lotusguy]

I know that in at least two of the German REs some German retailers and afficionados actually had input into the selection and blend (Boli Esp. #2 and upcoming Punch Sir John). The Boli Esp. #2 was the result of a popular vote. The RA Piramides German RE supposedly tried to replicate the 1960s blend.

[Smallclub]

French REs: For the kick with your morning coffee! (at least the few I've tried...)

Try to smoke a Bolivar Petit Libertador (2008) in the morning…

[Zigatoh]

Try to smoke a Bolivar Petit Libertador (2008) in the morning…

How did you guess?

[maverickdrinker]

So Art: some CC retailers are consulted who spread the word to some of their faithful clients, and the results are compiled. Similar to what Rob was doing a few months ago, then?

Have you been consulted yourself at some point? And, if yes, did you 'recognize' yourself in the final choices made at that time?

Best,

Michel

Hi Michel,

I've been consulted on the last few CDN releases via a survey. There is a choice of a number of marcas with suggested vitola size. You pick 2 (a first and then a second pick) and submit them.

So far, the marcas/vitolas that I have picked have been produced. As an RA fan, I've always picked the RA Option and the Juan Lopez option. The only year that I disagreed with was the Bolivar B2. I didn't feel it was unique enough however, looks like the majority thought so.

[cottierm]

Interesting. Thanks for the info on the process, Art.

Michel

[canadianbeaver]

If you check out my thread about my current trip in Amsterdam you will see the entire current line of Benelux RE's. Didi, the owner of Amsterdam's LCDH says he likes the Punch Punch the best of all and so we smoked them yesterday. They were incredible and I bought 5.

I can tell I love the profile of Benelux blend, as I LOVE Spain and Canada. Perhaps they were created with similar palates in mind? I know German editions do nothing for me.

In three days I am going to be in Paris and I have a meet up planned with Ken/stalebread

[canadianbeaver]

I want to get some France RE's and I shall report...

Lisa

[Blnguy]

I doubt that it has any significance at all. Its just marketing and nothing more.

[Ophidion]

The bolivar b2 has been one of the best cigars I've ever had. I still have a handful of different Canada REs I brought home with me (VR petite, JL, RA super Ramon) and I can hardly wait to try them.

[Smallclub]

I doubt that it has any significance at all. Its just marketing and nothing more.

Agreed. And let me add, people are incredibly gullible.

Mexican RE for literary connotations.??? what a joke…

btw, AFAIK in France and in Spain, no one was consulted by Altadis and Coprova (the importers) for the selection of REs. The choices made reflect… NOTHING, and certainly not "the consumers' taste and preference in their niche markets"…