Plain Packaging legislation Update

[laficion]

Well done Rob and I salute you for all you're doing .

Here everyone is getting ready to vote for a new clown , Right or left they're all

members of the same club. I also hate today's politics.

[Colt45]

Truly a shame.

[CanuckSARTech]

Well the Forces of Darkness in the Federal Government have finalised their Plain Packaging Legislation for Cigars. It will quickly pass parliament (both houses) and will come into effect December 2012 subject to legal challenge currently underway.

Let's assume it gets up. What does it mean for FOH.

1. It doesn't affect Exports ie Shipments outside of the country. Nor does it affect the OLH (on line humidor) stock.
2. For Aussie members who do not want plain packaging (yes...all of us), I have arranged an offshore portal for you to order through. Your shipments will come into Australia with no plain packaging nor health warnings. This will be in effect by the last quarter of this year.
3. The PSP/HQ/PE program will be greatly scaled down if not terminated. Stock up while it continues. Through necessity we will move a significant part of our operation offshore (well underway) and simple time mathematics will not allow me to pick 100% of FOH stock.
4. The Aussie *****A program will grow and grow as a true underground movement. Spread the word, be active and give the politicians hell. It is important that you are not disenfranchised. Know your local and national cigar loving brethren and get together.

As many of you know this legislation is being picked up by Canada and the UK subject to the success of legal challenge here in Australia. It really is important that you organise your consumer associations now.

The reality is that FOH by going truly global (distribution based largely offshore), will explode in its growth. It is something I have avoided for 5 years as I enjoy the simplicity of being an Aussie based supplier to mates worldwide. Still we have to move with the times and the challenges put in front of us.

Let me be very bloody clear.

When the worlds major countries ban tobacco sales, I will be one of the last pirates standing. I will be standing next to you, glass in hand, cigar in mouth, middle finger fully extended

Wow. What a complete cluster. This absolutely sucks to hear. I really hope that the legal challenge pervails, and/or that an injunction is granted for a long, long time prior to a final ruling. If it's not won, I hope at least that this can be delayed for many, many years.

This absolutely sucks. As a consumer, as a taxpayer, as a customer, for you as a businessman - it's all just so pathetic.

It's scary to think of no more (or a drastically reduced) PE/HQ/PSP program, and/or likewise for LFTH listings. Scary. I'll definitely be stocking up a bit more this year then. Glad to hear that this won't affect OLH stock, but it's still a kick to the groin. Sounds like a HUGE hassle for you to set this up offshore - and I suspect many details can't be revealed, including some previously asked questions, due to not wanting to give away more details than needed. But wow.

Rob, if there's anything you need done from this end, just let me/us know. And, I can also provide you with a few tools that may help you get out of pastels and cement rooms if needed.

[Duane]

Is Rob going to be like the guy in the bar in the starwars movie? do you want to buy some death sticks? or even in the judge dred movie they called them death sticks. WHAT THE HELL is our government doing to us, the letter i got today from them political scum is out right crap, there is no freedom anymore next they will be telling us when to take an dump, like our watering days we have, odd house numbers can water on odd days and even on even days.

This is starting to turn into New World Order or Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars. Google them if you not sure, now is turning into the time of the public is ripe for surrender, might be looking into things too far but they are starting somewhere.

[Rushman]

Very sorry but not surprised for my Aussie brothers. Even as an expat living in Mexico I'm surprised by the enormous warning stickers Mexico requires be placed on cigars.....large black with gold lettering across the entire bottom and one side plus a nice photo of open heart surgery or a dead rat or human corpse on the top. Having said that, for the moment I'm still free to sell cigars and smoke just about anywhere I want.

Good luck pres!

---

I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=20.631785,-87.070563

[ptrthgr8]

That wallows in lameness. Things haven't gotten that bad here in the US - yet - but it still infuriates me to see something like this happening for no rational/reasonable purpose. When I see this crap happening to other supposedly free nations, I know it's only a matter of time before the federales start pushing the same things here - tyranny is as tyranny does. I swear... I want to start my own republic. With each passing day is sounds like a better and better idea.

~ Greg ~

[Cohiba Stevie]

WAFL!

(what a ******* legend!)

I must admit my apprehension was slowly increasing about this, seein this actually quashes those doubts and has restored my confidence in full, i always have and always will buy from czar.

Rob your a class act mate, let me extend my personal thanks for your effort in battling our opressors.

[CaptainQuintero]

Time to make that list of politicians who buy from you

[PigFish]

It isn't about right or left Ray. Step away from the ideology. It has much more to do with useless politicians finding traction in minority oppression. Both sides of the aisle do this. It doesn't take much historical analysis to reveal this simple truth.

Instead of pointing fingers (you will never get your right-wing utopia), how about looking for commonalities with people on specific issues. That is the best way to attack the simpletons of the world. Use logic. Find allies. What else can we do?

Mate... I love you, you know, but you are dead wrong on this issue. I don't want to bring Bwana's thread to hell so I won't fight this one here but I will be happy to share ideas with you anywhere else.

Compromise got us here! Ideology is everything! The left has its ideology and so does the right and that starts with the definition of, and the grantor of natural rights.

Dispiriting the population, thinking that there is no finger to point just feeds the process of soft tyranny. Some country's have overriding laws to protect their rights and some do not, they live under hard tyranny. There is one side that works to protect individual sovereignty and another that works to 'transform' it to the interests of the collective. There are two sides and one large group of people that for some reason won't choose one.

I am sorry so many of you do not see the difference. That is because we have a government school system that does not teach the legacy of freedom. It teaches the dystopia of the collective paradise instead. But there I go pointing fingers again!!!

Not all government is bad. Government is necessary to form a society where individuals working in their own interest don't destroy the rights of others. This brings us back full circle and talking about what rights are and who defines them again.

Ideology is everything. Ours is different. I respect that and respectfully disagree that a compromise progresses personal freedom. This law does not pass the litmus test of necessary to protect freedom. It is designed to tax and generate revenue and shape society. I do not see this as a legitimate role of government.

Take care mate. -r

[Onsto]

Keep fighting the good fight Rob.

[OZCUBAN]

Great News Rob

I guess it's your only course of action,but for those actions we applaud you :clap:

For me it means no more ordering from other suppliers, ie offshore ,because you will be offshore and the prices would be comparable ,I would imagine .and NO plain packaging

Thank you for all your hard work on behalf of us all

Great initiative

Cheers my friend Steve

[Trevor2118]

Rob,

how offshore will this portal be?

will purchases from said portal be required to clear customs?

as we know how much fun that is here in oz

cheers

steve

No further discussions on this point Guys.

Rule 4 No discussion of Shipping

Shipping is not discussed on the forum. It is a core rule and has been so since inception and

always understood by members.

Posts regarding shipping regardless whom it is about will be deleted immediately. Mods will enforce.

Govt Nazi's around the world need no help.

Contact your supplier directly to answer any questions or issues regarding shipping.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Trevor2118
Discussion on shipping and customs deleted.

[Trevor2118]

Kudos to you Rob. ......... I feel that this is history in the making.

To the Government of Australia........A plague on both your houses.

[CigarmanTim]

Mate... I love you, you know, but you are dead wrong on this issue. I don't want to bring Bwana's thread to hell so I won't fight this one here but I will be happy to share ideas with you anywhere else.

Compromise got us here! Ideology is everything! The left has its ideology and so does the right and that starts with the definition of, and the grantor of natural rights.

Dispiriting the population, thinking that there is no finger to point just feeds the process of soft tyranny. Some country's have overriding laws to protect their rights and some do not, they live under hard tyranny. There is one side that works to protect individual sovereignty and another that works to 'transform' it to the interests of the collective. There are two sides and one large group of people that for some reason won't choose one.

I am sorry so many of you do not see the difference. That is because we have a government school system that does not teach the legacy of freedom. It teaches the dystopia of the collective paradise instead. But there I go pointing fingers again!!!

Not all government is bad. Government is necessary to form a society where individuals working in their own interest don't destroy the rights of others. This brings us back full circle and talking about what rights are and who defines them again.

Ideology is everything. Ours is different. I respect that and respectfully disagree that a compromise progresses personal freedom. This law does not pass the litmus test of necessary to protect freedom. It is designed to tax and generate revenue and shape society. I do not see this as a legitimate role of government.

Take care mate. -r

Well said Brother.....but.......... sometimes I feel like resistance is futile.

[khomeinist]

I think it is obvious that this legislation doesn't pass a 'freedom' litmus test. You conveniently avoided the major points that I was trying to make.

Soft tyranny is a cute expression but it surely can be observed regardless of which party or ideology has power. Seriously. Remove the blinders. The majority of humans are not interested in 'natural rights' bequeathed by a Christian god. The right and left tax and oppress depending on what is expedient.

Hard tyranny has been established by commies, fascists, god-fearing, and god-abhorring. There is not going to be ideological consensus or any utopian future. I don't see why this is difficult to ascertain.

Ok. I will bow out of the thread as well. At least we agree that this legislation is a joke and that such future efforts must be resisted. Oppression of the minority is pathetic in any society.

[jman]

Thank you for standing up for us, and oh by the way you run a genuine business that is truly the best of the best.

[Wil]

There aren't too many good governments IMHO, left or right (a moribund distinction nowadays anyway).

This forum is about cigars. We should fight any government, of whatever persuasion, if they try to impinge on our right to enjoy a fine cigar.

[frenchkiwi]

keep up the good fight, Presidente. if plain packaging hits you it will hit nz soon after. our legislators are so competitive though that they might one up yours by banning tobacco first.

time to start up the "speakeasies" of the cigar world?

or shall we all meet on this mysterious island of yours, perpetually generating clouds of smoke to veil our illegal activities from the spy satellites above?

we stand with you on the quarterdeck, "middle fingers" upraised, ready for a fight!!

[PigFish]

At least we agree that this legislation is a joke and that such future efforts must be resisted. Oppression of the minority is pathetic in any society.

I do wholeheartedly concur! Cheers, -Piggy

[Fuzz]

Time to set up a cigar tent city on the front lawn of parliament!

I can just see it now... a big pavillion with free flowing booze, latin music pumping out over the sound system, all surrounded by a haze of cigar smoke...

[ATGroom]

Out of interest, what will cigars sold in Australia (I assume there will still be some) look like?

No bands no boxes?

[danclough]

Mate... I love you, you know, but you are dead wrong on this issue. I don't want to bring Bwana's thread to hell so I won't fight this one here but I will be happy to share ideas with you anywhere else.

Compromise got us here! Ideology is everything! The left has its ideology and so does the right and that starts with the definition of, and the grantor of natural rights.

Dispiriting the population, thinking that there is no finger to point just feeds the process of soft tyranny. Some country's have overriding laws to protect their rights and some do not, they live under hard tyranny. There is one side that works to protect individual sovereignty and another that works to 'transform' it to the interests of the collective. There are two sides and one large group of people that for some reason won't choose one.

I am sorry so many of you do not see the difference. That is because we have a government school system that does not teach the legacy of freedom. It teaches the dystopia of the collective paradise instead. But there I go pointing fingers again!!!

Not all government is bad. Government is necessary to form a society where individuals working in their own interest don't destroy the rights of others. This brings us back full circle and talking about what rights are and who defines them again.

Ideology is everything. Ours is different. I respect that and respectfully disagree that a compromise progresses personal freedom. This law does not pass the litmus test of necessary to protect freedom. It is designed to tax and generate revenue and shape society. I do not see this as a legitimate role of government.

Take care mate. -r

I completely agree, ideology has everything to do with it. When the bill for our healthcare is paid for by the collective, then the collective is completely within their rights to regulate the "risky" behaviors of individuals in order to control costs. Tobacco is an easy target because the majority see it as a dirty habit enjoyed by unsophisticated dolts in need of a loving government to save them from themselves. The eventual ban of tobacco is, I believe, an inevitable and logical consequence of individuals abdicating their financial healthcare responsibilities to the collective.

The problem is I can't think of a good and fair way to resolve the issue. On the one hand I don't want the collective telling me what I can or can't smoke, drink, or eat. On the other hand, I don't want to end up bankrupt because genetic bad luck requires that I or one of my children requires a (expensive) surgical procedure in order to survive. It's a problem that does not, in my opinion, have an obvious solution. I just hope that someone more intelligent than I finds that solution before steak and whiskey are banned!

[khomeinist]

I completely agree, ideology has everything to do with it. When the bill for our healthcare is paid for by the collective, then the collective is completely within their rights to regulate the "risky" behaviors of individuals in order to control costs. Tobacco is an easy target because the majority see it as a dirty habit enjoyed by unsophisticated dolts in need of a loving government to save them from themselves. The eventual ban of tobacco is, I believe, an inevitable and logical consequence of individuals abdicating their financial healthcare responsibilities to the collective.

The problem is I can't think of a good and fair way to resolve the issue. On the one hand I don't want the collective telling me what I can or can't smoke, drink, or eat. On the other hand, I don't want to end up bankrupt because genetic bad luck requires that I or one of my children requires a (expensive) surgical procedure in order to survive. It's a problem that does not, in my opinion, have an obvious solution. I just hope that someone more intelligent than I finds that solution before steak and whiskey are banned!

I actually agree with you. Particularly the second paragraph. An interesting social conundrum that has been decades in the making. I was not trying to state that ideology is irrelevant, rather that the standard right/left partisan dichotomy is not a particularly useful lens for analysis. The private-insurance model was untenable given inflationary health-care costs. The newer public models have all kinds of horrible 'nanny' implications.

I am also unsure of a fundamental solution. I do suspect that regulations (gasp) need to be put in place so that individuals can make personal lifestyle decisions without the collective intruding at all times.

From a tactical standpoint, I think a new political coalition is going to be necessary that recognizes the problem holistically and attempts to reframe the way individual choice is accounted for within the public sphere. Hopefully libertarians from both sides of the spectrum can start learning to work together.......

[nick17]

It is things like this that sadden me deeply, we MUST come together and fight this to no end and the best we can.

[dicko]

Bravo Rob