cuban cockfighting

[Nino]

Great back and forth on a very volatile subject and think it's fine that not every single topic here be cigar related.

As far as my point of view is concerned, I don't like cockfighting so I don't participate. I don't like baby seals being killed so I don't purchase the fur. I don't like bullfighting so I don't attend the fights. If there's enough lack of support I suppose just about any activity will go away, eventually. Since none of these activities take place where I live I don't feel I have the right to impose my opinion on those that do take part.

One of my, and our, favorite activities is cigar smoking, and there are plenty others that want it done away with because they don't like it. I don't want someone that doesn't participate in what I do regulating my activities. I say as long as it's legal, then people should be free to do it. If you want change, do it legally.

Great post and I share your points,

I am Spanish born and have never ever visited a bullfight, just not my idea of a good time - it gives me the shivers - but I feel it's a cultural thing and as more and more young people will not visit a fight it will disappear, which it is actually, see the new Catalonian law forbidding it, more regional parliaments might follow.

Who am I to stop a century old tradition - I just don't like it but respect the wish of others to see it.

I just don't like moral issues and foreign pressure trying to stop it, I understand the reasoning, but I don't like it, as it is mostly the tourists now ( protesting at home but wanting to see it while on vacation ) who attend a bullfight outside the main rings of Madrid and southern Spain and keep the fights alive ( with the problems that Ken mentioned, drugged bulls, horns manipulated, etc ).

I have been to Indonesia many times and visited cockfights there, the locals took me, they were my friends and I went along - not my flavour of the month but see above.

Same in Cuba, I've seen the cockpits for illegal fights in the countryside, I would have gone along if invited, even though .. see above.

Might go and see one next month when back in Cuba again if I'm invited, why not ...

My hobby, as is Habanos 2000, is cigar smoking ..... do I want someone to tell me if I can smoke a cigar .... ??

Here's one of the most beautiful pictures from Cuba I have, a Cuban friend, a proud Guajiro and his favourite fighting cock, all I can have is respect for this man and his traditions.

Nino

[HydroRaven]

Great back and forth on a very volatile subject and think it's fine that not every single topic here be cigar related.

As far as my point of view is concerned, I don't like cockfighting so I don't participate. I don't like baby seals being killed so I don't purchase the fur. I don't like bullfighting so I don't attend the fights. If there's enough lack of support I suppose just about any activity will go away, eventually. Since none of these activities take place where I live I don't feel I have the right to impose my opinion on those that do take part.

One of my, and our, favorite activities is cigar smoking, and there are plenty others that want it done away with because they don't like it. I don't want someone that doesn't participate in what I do regulating my activities. I say as long as it's legal, then people should be free to do it. If you want change, do it legally.

I guess you articulated it better than I did. As long as species are not going instinct and the ecosystem is not changed beyond repair, who cares what others do?

What I find sad is the animal rights activists blowing their whistles about baby seals killed for their fur when they don't mind paying $0.99 for their whistles at the dollar store which oftentimes is funded by the blood and health of other human beings. If you ask me, I'd rather see the baby seal killed for the fur than see a child working itself to death or the person exposed to toxic gasses 18 hours a day for the most part of his life.

[Wil]

, I'd rather see the baby seal killed for the fur than see a child working itself to death or the person exposed to toxic gasses 18 hours a day for the most part of his life.

I'd rather see neither.

[HydroRaven]

I'd rather see neither.

I'm with you on that, but if I was to fight for a cause, it'd be the children's before the seals'.

[compitaveggie]

Is there such a thing as a cigar smoking vegetarian? Drinking alcohol, smoking cigars and eating cows for dinner go hand in hand.

Hey!!!! Im a cigar smoking Vegetarian.

Jose

[canadianbeaver]

I would not go to a cock fight, but I would go to bull fight. A few weeks ago I said this at a dinner with friends and they looked at me like I was the devil. The same look when I said I was not into breast feeding. I guess I am a hypocrite. I also would eat a steak every night. Force fed duck foie gras too.

See you in hell.

Lisa

[Guest rob]

One of my, and our, favorite activities is cigar smoking, and there are plenty others that want it done away with because they don't like it. I don't want someone that doesn't participate in what I do regulating my activities. I say as long as it's legal, then people should be free to do it. If you want change, do it legally.

EVERYONE needs to read and re-read H2000's fantastic post above.

Whenever one (or groups, lobby's, governments) feels the need to stand on a soapbox I'm happy to listen... but when someone steps of the soapbox and tries to FORCE me to change what Im doing - then I get really pissed off.

I guess we need to refrain from persecuting others and their actions lest we accept the same fate when it's delivered our way.

[riderpride]

Regrettably, I am unable to comment on Ken's post as it remains down.

As for the seal cull, I was fully prepared to get on my soap-box, but fortulately, CanuckSARTech has already made most of my points (thanks!). I wonder how many people who are disgusted with these culls make the conscious choice to refrain from consuming cod, or anything else being over-fished in the Grand Banks? If the cod fishing is greatly reduced due to waning demand, then we have one less reason to beat these little buggers to death (for the record - something I don't endorse).

I'm also curious; are people repulsed by the killing of seals because of the method, because of the contrast of the blood on the snow, or because they're so darned cute? How many of us would feel as repulsed by a tarantula cull? My wife would be the first to join the great spider-stomp of 2012!

-Cheers

[Bahnofstrasse]

I "hear" the loser of the cockfight turns into dinner? Something about it tastes like chicken...

[El Presidente]

Regrettably, I am unable to comment on Ken's post as it remains down.

As for the seal cull, I was fully prepared to get on my soap-box, but fortulately, CanuckSARTech has already made most of my points (thanks!). I wonder how many people who are disgusted with these culls make the conscious choice to refrain from consuming cod, or anything else being over-fished in the Grand Banks? If the cod fishing is greatly reduced due to waning demand, then we have one less reason to beat these little buggers to death (for the record - something I don't endorse).

I'm also curious; are people repulsed by the killing of seals because of the method, because of the contrast of the blood on the snow, or because they're so darned cute? How many of us would feel as repulsed by a tarantula cull? My wife would be the first to join the great spider-stomp of 2012!

-Cheers

A couple of questions from a novice

1. if the adult seals had the white pelts and the pup harp seals mottled brown/black ones.....would they still kill the pup harp seals because they eat 3- 4 times as much fish as an adult one?" I find it hard to believe they would.

2. What is with the clubbing? It would not be tolerated anywhere in a 1st world country. Our (Aus/UK/US/Canada) abbatoirs have very clear rules on the slaughter of cattle, pigs, sheep and none of it includes a club. I would suggest that if an abbatoir foreman was filmed clubbing livestock to death they would face a short jail sentence.

[BrotherBear]

This is going to sound terrible but here goes... the young ones have really soft skulls. a direct hit from a club is quicker then shooting as not every bullet is a head shot.

[El Presidente]

This is going to sound terrible but here goes... the young ones have really soft skulls. a direct hit from a club is quicker then shooting as not every bullet is a head shot.

Stun Gun and slice the throat ala lambs. But I suspect that (as a bullet) it would wreck the perfect pelt.

I could be completely worng but ala "Scientific" Japanese whaling some scepticism is a natural result. the scepticism may be wrong but if we don't ask the questions we don't find out the answers.

[riderpride]

A couple of questions from a novice

1. if the adult seals had the white pelts and the pup harp seals mottled brown/black ones.....would they still kill the pup harp seals because they eat 3- 4 times as much fish as an adult one?" I find it hard to believe they would.

2. What is with the clubbing? It would not be tolerated anywhere in a 1st world country. Our (Aus/UK/US/Canada) abbatoirs have very clear rules on the slaughter of cattle, pigs, sheep and none of it includes a club. I would suggest that if an abbatoir foreman was filmed clubbing livestock to death they would face a short jail sentence.

A couple answers from a novice:

1) I can't really answer this one. It would make more sense to me to bump-off the adults as they would have a larger pelt. I suppose if enough adults were removed from some populations, the pups would be at greater risk of falling prey to a natural predator, which would be even more cruel, not to mention decimate the population.

2) Again, not a sniff. As mentioned previously, this is not something I endorse; it puts a stain (no pun intended) on our nations’ image. The only explanation I can think of here is economics: whole pelts are worth more than damaged ones.

Unfortunately, this doesn’t seem to receive enough attention from the scientific community and the perception is that it is a political no-fly zone. There seems to be mere speculation on both sides of the argument about the seal's impact on the fish-stock. We need some legitimate (and unfortunately long-term) research from which we can make an informed decision. As for the politics, the public perception is that while the native population would be exempt from any ban, it would be seen as a judgement on their lifestyle; something the government wishes to avoid.

- Cheers

[El Presidente]

No stain an anyone or any nation intended

We cull roos for meat and hide. If we didn't in a good season they simply explode in number. The vast majority is exported. Their natural environment didn't include dams and artesian irrigation which opened up a higher density in much of the country. It is hghly controversial offshore (not so much here) where opponents of the practice bandy around the argument of an endangered species. One drive out to the scrub says otherwise. The practice is done by professional shooters. Centrefire rifles and head shots are mandated. It looks awful in documentaries so I know to some extent where our Canadian brothers are coming from.

The questions I raised are ones often discussed when the invariable seal culling season strikes our TV screens (Be it Canada or Norway or Nigeria from memory).

The clubs, the fish stock argument (if fish are depleting solely due to Harp seals would't their own populations also diminish naturally?), the targetting of pups only etal. They are fair questions and there maybe fair answers.

[Ken Gargett]

first time i've been back in quite a few days.

i think i can safely say that my work here is done!

not bad for a post that was taken down after ten minutes. just wait till i put the whole thing back!

[NJP]

You are the man Kenny.