Cigar with the most Cuban 'twang' flavor

[Ginseng]

I don't necessarily disagree, but I'm not exactly sure, either - Jimmy's blind tasting comes to mind

Ross, that test was indeed great fun. But we've got to keep it in perspective.

In that kind of test, it's entirely plausible that recognition of one cigar out of two (e.g., the Choix Supreme) appears identical in effect to discrimination between two options. In other words, if I have smoked a many Choix Supreme in my life, my ability to identify it in a 50/50 coin toss might be biased by my familiarity with it rather than the identification of something Cuban about it, per se.

Again, that test was great fun and no denying Jimmy has a fine palate.

Wilkey

[Colt45]

Ross, that test was indeed great fun. But we've got to keep it in perspective.

In that kind of test, it's entirely plausible that recognition of one cigar out of two (e.g., the Choix Supreme) appears identical in effect to discrimination between two options. In other words, if I have smoked a many Choix Supreme in my life, my ability to identify it in a 50/50 coin toss might be biased by my familiarity with it rather than the identification of something Cuban about it, per se.

Again, that test was great fun and no denying Jimmy has a fine palate.

Wilkey

Wilkey, if I recall correctly (I'd have to check the thread), Jimmy was sent a few cigars to try and determine which cigar(s) (if any) were Cuban,

and which cigar(s) (if any) were not. He scored 100%. I realize I'm veering away from the point of the discussion, but for the sake of conversation,

I think we often use deduction when attempting to identify things we're uncertain of. That is, we might not know exactly what it is, but perhaps by

combining thoughts of what we think it is with thoughts of what we feel it isn't, we can come up with an educated guess.

Again, I think that this would apply to many general blind tastings, consciously or not. But I digress.....

[nonameno]

Hello Fellow FOHers,

Wow! I didn't realize I would strike such a nerve by the mere mention of 'twang'!

First off, I think you guys are taking your terminology and definitions much too seriously. Secondly, it is used as a starting off point for discussion about the distinct flavor Cuban cigars. I used the term 'twang' simply because I had seen it used a number of times on this our beloved forum. From my perspective, it sounded fine, and I wasn't going to get a judge and a rope and go after a guy for using it.

Now if you don't find a distinct difference between the flavor of Cuban cigars and Nicaraguan and Dominican, then why do you smoke Cubans?

I am too old to get worked up about specific terms and much prefer to sit back with an enjoyable drink and fine cigar and let you young folks duke it out.

Thank you all for your lively contributions,

Curtiss

[TankerT]

Hello Fellow FOHers,

Wow! I didn't realize I would strike such a nerve by the mere mention of 'twang'!

First off, I think you guys are taking your terminology and definitions much too seriously. Secondly, it is used as a starting off point for discussion about the distinct flavor Cuban cigars. I used the term 'twang' simply because I had seen it used a number of times on this our beloved forum. From my perspective, it sounded fine, and I wasn't going to get a judge and a rope and go after a guy for using it.

Now if you don't find a distinct difference between the flavor of Cuban cigars and Nicaraguan and Dominican, then why do you smoke Cubans?

I am too old to get worked up about specific terms and much prefer to sit back with an enjoyable drink and fine cigar and let you young folks duke it out.

Thank you all for your lively contributions,

Curtiss

I smoke some Cubans because I like them. I don't smoke other Cubans because I don't like them. I smoke some Non-Cubans because I like them, and avoid others because I think they aren't any good.

I think it is easier to figure out what you like and/or don't like with Cubans, because there are only so many brands, and they have a similar profile within each line. Try that with Gurkha, Rocky Patel, or some upstart NC brand that will be here today, and gone tomorrow.

I don't think there is a Cuban "twang" much less an overall Cuban profile that lets you tell every Cuban from a non-cuban. I think that if you are an experienced smoker, you can recognize which Cuban line you are smoking if you are familiar with it. Anyone that says there is an overall Cuban profile, I would challenge them to smoke a Jose L Piedra and then a Trinidad and then tell me the same thing while being honest. I don't think that would happen.

But, that's my two cents.

[Ginseng]

I don't think there is a Cuban "twang" much less an overall Cuban profile that lets you tell every Cuban from a non-cuban. I think that if you are an experienced smoker, you can recognize which Cuban line you are smoking if you are familiar with it. Anyone that says there is an overall Cuban profile, I would challenge them to smoke a Jose L Piedra and then a Trinidad and then tell me the same thing while being honest. I don't think that would happen.

Well said, and thanks for chiming in. We should all feel free to opine or remark as we see fit without the necessity of dissing another's approach. The dialogue here is as fertile as any other enthusiast community and we welcome all viewpoints equally and without disparagement.

Well except for whingers and mealymouths and there are precious few of those here anymore.

Wilkey

[Ginseng]

Wilkey, if I recall correctly (I'd have to check the thread), Jimmy was sent a few cigars to try and determine which cigar(s) (if any) were Cuban, and which cigar(s) (if any) were not. He scored 100%. I realize I'm veering away from the point of the discussion, but for the sake of conversation, I think we often use deduction when attempting to identify things we're uncertain of. That is, we might not know exactly what it is, but perhaps by combining thoughts of what we think it is with thoughts of what we feel it isn't, we can come up with an educated guess.

...But I digress.....

On the contrary, I think you're entirely on point. 100% surely is an impressive number. But with three binary choices, the odds of getting all three right are "merely" 1/8. If we do this again, then a simple addition would reveal more, even without carrying out more trials: ask for the degree of confidence in the determination of C/NC. I think this is quite related to your last sentence. But enough of the number play. I imagine we've exhausted the attention of most readers.

Now I'm going out on the deck to drink a port and smoke a Siglo VI. That's right, I don't just think about cigars, I smoke 'em too. Sometimes I even think about them when I'm smoking.

Wilkey

[CaptainQuintero]

Strange as it sounds but I get it most from Quintero, there are no destinctive 'marka' flavours just basic, decent cuban tobacco. Trying to nail it is hard but it's probably a combination of natural sweetness (ie from fresh cut wood), creamy and rich but not overpowering tobacco flavour and spice, but the spice isn't something that can (at least for me) be compared to anything else, it's just the spice that you only find in cuban tobacco.

The best description of this cuban spice which essentially makes up this 'twang' is that is tastes like you have rolled up the experience of spanish siesta culture and set fire to it.

...Yeah probably bullplop but it's how I descrbie it lol, it's always present in my favourite thinner guage cigars, quintero panatelas, partagas shorts, monte #3 and #5.

Even with the more creamy cigars like mag 46 or epi 2 you can still detect it in the background, that sweet, rich spice.

Personally I have never gotten it from NC cigars, the spice is there no matter the strength but it's a spice of a different type, more of a raw fighting spice as opposed to a delicate laid back playful spice

[Rogers72]

The "twang" for me is something that isn't easy to put your finger on. Something the french in their incomparable eloquence refer to as " je nais se quoi."

[LeafLover]

I don't really subscribe to the "cuban twang." IMO it is merely a commonality of flavors among cuban cigars. A previous post of vanilla seems to be something that I would agree with.

Vanilla = twang ?????

I don't think "twang" would be a descriptive term for vanilla. I suppose "twang" to me would describe some spice or some kick to it. I definitely do not experience a spice or kick in cuban cigars across the marcas. So I don't use the term "cuban twang" anymore. I just think it terms of- this tastes like a cuban cigars, this doesn't.

Perhaps the term "twang" is something that has been engrained in our CC nonmenclature that just stuck. Kind of like HERF. Not a very descriptive, or even flattering, term for a get together of cigar smokers smoking cigars. But, it has been part of the nonmenclature and it just sticks.

[dicko]

bolivar imo

if i had to pick one marca to give to someone who wanted to know whats cubans were all about id gove them a bolivar

i love seeign everyones differen opinion though!

[goalie204]

i still don't really understand what the "twang" is supposed to mean

[Dbone]

I don't really subscribe to the "cuban twang." IMO it is merely a commonality of flavors among cuban cigars.

This is my take as well. I could say most or all Cuban cigars have the twang in them, more in the fuller cigars less in the lighter ones. It's a combination of the taste on the lips from the wrapper to the draws from start to finish. An underline constant that brings all Cuban cigars together, a uniqueness that tells you, "This is a Cuban cigar". I can't explain it much better than that, unfortunately.

[Smallclub]

IMHO, what most posters try to describe in this thread is DEPTH of flavour.

[Ginseng]

Well,

There have been some very insightful comments in this thread and it has been a good read. I especially appreciate and enjoy how folks are able to go "below the surface" of the experience to come up with remarks that are so thought provoking. So I feel it's worthwhile to pull together what people have written about the "Cuban twang" here and in other threads. This is what I've come up with:

What the twang IS - "Rich, complex combination of flavors"

1. rich combination of ginger bread, nutmeg, paprika, and sweet cooking spices
   
2. richness of flavor
   
3. combination of natural sweetness (ie from fresh cut wood), creamy and rich but not overpowering tobacco flavour and spice
   
4. blend of the smells of rich, almost volcanic soil; some bitter dark chocolate (but without being too sweet); the barnyard and hay aromas; slightly salty, buttered bread/toast; roasted nuts with a creamy strong-coffee tinge to it; and all backed by a damp, mineral-laden earth sensation
   
5. complexity of flavor...often times sweet and sharp delivered in an underlying soft and smooth consistency
   
6. smoothness, and also complexity and richness of flavour
   
7. balance of taste
   

What the twang IS - "Spice"

1. flavor burst or spice burst...but only upon lighting and first draw or two
   
2. twang of spice
   
3. spicy twang
   
4. spicy expansion of smoke
   
5. capsicum/bell pepper
   
6. sweet paprika
   

What the twang IS - "Fruity or citrusy"

1. sharp sensation, like citrus (evolving into) various tangy fruit flavors
   
2. zesty "fruit salad twang"
   
3. deep dark musty spicy earthy citrusy flavor
   
4. sweaty and citrusy
   
5. fruity twang
   
6. lemon zest
   

What the twang IS - "Acidity and saltiness"

1. pleasant tart or tang flavor
   
2. tangy, somewhat acidic flavor
   
3. meaty, creamy, acidic saltiness
   
4. slightly acidic, grassy note
   
5. salty twang
   

What the twang IS - "Vanilla, specifically"

1. smooth vanilla
   
2. vanilla = twang
   
3. vanilla flavor
   

What the twang IS - "Bready, yeasty"

1. toasted bread
   
2. metallic sour dough bread
   

What the twang IS - "Other flavors"

1. Cuban earth
   
2. maple & raisins aroma
   

What the twang IS NOT

1. smoothness, depth, cream, rich chocolate, vanilla, and caramel, along with the Cuban twang
   
2. raisins, fruits, herbs, grass, honey, etc., are not a core part of this main "Cuban twang"
   
3. predominantly coffee notes, with a little twang (youth)
   
4. Cuban twang and grassy flavours
   
5. sweet tobacco, a slight Monte twang and oh so creamy
   
6. twang, sweet wood and delicate spices
   
7. spice, earth, bitter and that sour twang
   
8. rich and spicy with a nice twang
   

Twang from a non-US perspective

1. I've never experienced any flavor that I would describe as twang. Barnyard, yes. Earth, yes. Pepper/spice, yes. But never twang. What is it? Is it a flavor? Pungent? Tart? Salty? Is it sensation linked to mouthfeel of the smoke? Maybe I really have experienced it but haven't used that word to describe it.
   
2. this notion of "twang" doesn't exist in the european cigar culture. The word doesn't translate nor has an equivalent in french or spanish or italian
   
3. I fail to understand this "twang." I smoke Cubans for quite a long time…I think it is just human nature to over simplify things
   
4. I as a European have never used this descriptor and have up to now never understood what it means.
   

So, if I were to seek commonality in what has been described as "the Cuban twang" it would be this: "A rich combination of flavors especially notable for elements of spice, fruitiness especially citrus, saltiness and acidity, with a touch of vanilla and bready elements."

However, taking into account the remarks that call out the things that "the twang' is not, we have to qualify it thusly: "…but that does not generally include sweetness, creaminess, coffee, or grassiness"

So, based on this simple tallying, is there in fact wisdom in the consensus? Does this uber description accurately encompass a general description of the Cuban twang?

Respectfully submitted,

Wilkey

[Michel1968]

So, based on this simple tallying, is there in fact wisdom in the consensus? Does this uber description accurately encompass a general description of the Cuban twang?

Respectfully submitted,

Wilkey

No consensus but very well done!!!

I do understand this 'twang' thingy, I just have troubles calling it 'twang'. Just to much acidity involved in this word. To me it's much like umami, difficult to describe but you know it when you taste it, you know it because your body (at least mine) reacts to it. Sometimes when lighting a Cuban (certainly not all Cubans, not even the same brand and vitola but from a different box) it gives me a wonderful and quite unique mouth coating silky taste and feeling. Having said this, when this happens it's with younger cigars and next to never with NC's

On a side note, might 'twang' be ammonia driven?

On a side note #2 From my POV I thinks the much discussed maturing experiment with msg is very interesting yet I have severe doubts about it (sorry for going OT)

[Stalebread]

Thanks, Wilkey, for the distillation of the various viewpoints.

I agree that the thread is a good and thought provoking read.

.

[Colt45]

This is what I've come up with:

See, now you're just showing off

Just to clarify (from my perspective), when I mentioned a "sense of vanilla" being what I find a common element with Cuban cigars, I was not

equating it with "twang". But in retrospect, after reading your write-up, perhaps it is a part of what makes for what people do consider twang?

Nice work.

[nonameno]

Hi Wilkey,

My goodness, you articulated and captured a lot of good thoughts on this subject. I think what your outlined all most becomes a tasters' spec sheet to use while reviewing and enjoying a cigar.

Thank you for sharing your thoughs everyone and Wilkey for putting it all down for all of us!

Curtiss

[CaptainQuintero]

I think the 'twang' could just be an English speaking term, as opposed to a non-european term (Another discussion on wether England is Europe or not for another time please ) I certainly use it and hear it ued to describe lots of things in England wether it's beer, marmalade, curry, music, villages etc.. the list is endless. It normally tends to mean something out of the norm and unexpected but pleasant which can be used to differentiate said person/place/object from other in the same catagory.

Basically the English version of 'Je ne sais quoi' - ie a characteristic you can't quite put your finger on be is generally pleasant.