Cigar community outside the US

[Dbone]

I've always been curious on how the cigar smoking world outside of the US favors the many choices of cigars. Within the US, the Cuban "forbidden fruit" ads to the desire for these lovely smokes. Nearly all sales revenue generated in the US is from non-cuban cigars and for the vast majority there are many content cigar aficionados that enjoy their non-cuban cigars. I get a kick out of going to a cigar party or bbq and talking about cuban cigars or passing some out. 4 out of 5 will swear there's no way I or anyone in the US could have "real" cuban cigars...

Cuban cigars do not dominated the CA yearly list, although some of their top cigars are difficult to find and/or very pricey.

In my few international travels, I head to cigar shops and look for Cuban cigars and that's usually mostly of what I see. There are not walls filled with non-cubans. I've read speculations the importation of cuban cigars cost the US cigar companies as much as $47million in sales annually with as much as 10 million cigars coming across the boarder yearly.

So does most of the cigar smoking community outside the US smoke cuban cigars? Is the non-cuban cigar segment largely dominated within the US?

[CanuckSARTech]

...So does most of the cigar smoking community outside the US smoke cuban cigars? Is the non-cuban cigar segment largely dominated within the US?

You're asking this on an international Cuban cigars webpage?!

Just teasing.

Yes, I think that the vast majority of cigars smoked outside of the U.S. are Cuban cigars. I have no idea on exact numbers (might be found with a google search of the specifics), but I would hazard a guess that 70%-80% of non-Cuban cigars are consumed within the U.S., and that stick for stick, there are vastly more Cuban cigars smoked worldwide than there are NC's within the U.S.

I know that anywhere that I've travelled to outside of the U.S., the non-Cuban cigar selection is very minimal, if not non-existant, as there's not a taste for them like there is for Cubans.

[Dbone]

You're asking this on an international Cuban cigars webpage?!

Lol, good point

Thanks for your reply

[PigFish]

People bunch tobacco leaves, bind them and wrap them in many parts of the world. But cigars.... cigars as I define them, are produced in only one country and that is Cuba. Tastes vary as well as opinions. If I were given only NC cigars to smoke, I would no longer smoke cigars. On the other hand, if the Cuban makers don't count me as a valuable consumer and continue to make the cigars that I like in the sizes that I like, I will take up a pipe and smoke it, or beat myself senseless with it!

-Piggy

[Colt45]

I think brand copyright also plays a small part in the availability of a number of cigars outside the U.S. market.

[jacksfull]

I can only guess at the answer to this since I live in the US.

However, I will say, the idea floating around that CC's are significantly more desirable than they should be merely because they're banned in the US is a fallacy. That's backwards. There are a lot of smokers who subscribe to the BS and help perpetuate the myth, but I think it must have originated for the benefit of the NC industry. Producers, distributors, retailers AND magazines based on advertising revenues all have a profit-motive in keeping the US smoker entranced with NC's. I doubt the rest of the world is buying into it (NPI).

CC's are more desirable than NC's because, on the whole, they're better. There's a broad enough spectrum of pricing on them to suit most anyone, and the prices of popular NC's have gotten out of hand. So, why wouldn't you smoke CC's if you can get them? I'm betting the rest of the world has no problem deciding.

[CBL]

On the other hand, if the Cuban makers don't count me as a valuable consumer and continue to make the cigars that I like in the sizes that I like, I will take up a pipe and smoke it, or beat myself senseless with it!

-Piggy

You really miss those Panatelas don't you? I share your pain my friend

But I agree that cigars should be Cubans, but I know A LOT of haters that believe NC have pushed Havanas from the top and back those words up with an array of arguments about the fact that knowledge from Cuba moved to Nicaragua, Dom-Rep etc. etc. or that HSA ships the cigars too fast so they're unsmokable and all that b.s.

The only true cigar for me is a Cuban cigar and even though some NC are pretty decent, the experience of smoking a CC is a journey by itself!

Yet I don't think NC are only smoked in the States, for a lot of people a NC is a nice and often inexpensive way to enjoy a decent smoke. Here in The Netherlands people LOVE non cubans, because most Dutch people are pretty cheap and don't believe a cigar is worth 10 dollars

[jacksfull]

I think brand copyright also plays a small part in the availability of a number of cigars outside the U.S. market.

Not sure about that. If there was great demand elsewhere for the cigars marketed in the US under the same brands as CC's, I'm sure they'd be selling in other parts of the world using different brand names.

Some of those are still very popular in the US... some not. Even those that are not have a purpose. Placeholders. The companies that own the rights to those trademarks in the US want to be sure they will control distribution of those same CC brands if, and when, the US lifts the embargo.

[Dbone]

Some of those are still very popular in the US... some not. Even those that are not have a purpose. Placeholders. The companies that own the rights to those trademarks in the US want to be sure they will control distribution of those same CC brands if, and when, the US lifts the embargo.

I was curious about this as well, as to how the branding would be controlled if cuban cigars are someday sold back in the US. But it sounds like if that day does come, the NC cigar companies could see drastic drops in sales revenue as sales in the US would resemble those internationally.

[PigFish]

... there is an ass for every seat! Look at Rob attempting to pick up a line for my benefit like Creme Crusties... or whatever they are called!!! -LOL

There are plenty of members here who enjoy NC cigars and smoke them as an option. While I don't like them myself, one can't deny that they are viable products with a stable of followers. There are some smokers who actually don't have a taste for CC tobacco or have difficulty adapting to the challenges of smoking them. NC cigars are much easier to smoke and to keep. I think NC cigars are more palatable to the newer or occasional smoker.

As a side note I believe that CC are becoming more like NC cigars in some ways. They are certainly easier to smoke these days, coming in larger rings often with loser rolls. I find them losing their individual identity and heritage in attempt to recapture the share of trend setting cigars (the fat ones) rolled by the NC manufactures. As the market demands larger cigars with less pungent natures, CC's have moved in that direction as a matter of this demand.

Dismissing NC cigars is a mistake! Just look at the direction of Habanos. H SA is no longer a leader, but a follower in this industry. Instead of keeping a foothold in thier traditional market and expanding into the "trend" market, it dismantles the traditional market in favor of the trend market when it does not need to do it. JMHO. -Piggy

[jacksfull]

I was curious about this as well, as to how the branding would be controlled if cuban cigars are someday sold back in the US. But it sounds like if that day does come, the NC cigar companies could see drastic drops in sales revenue as sales in the US would resemble those internationally.

Altadis owns a lot of those trademarks for the US including Montecristo, H.Upmann, and RyJ, as well as a stake in HSA itself and CC distribution outside the US. I don't think there's any problem guessing what they'll do. General Cigar (owned by Swedish Match now, I think) owns a lot of the other trademarks and there are some significant ones in their portfolio like Cohiba, Partagas, Bolivar & HdM. Either Altadis will work with General, or we'll only get a limited selection of brands. Who knows? Depends on the money I guess, but I can't imagine them leaving any global CC brands out of this market.

I would not be surprised to see parallel product lines of CC's and NC's in some of those brands that are very popular in the US now as NC's, especially at the beginning. Not only have they trained a lot of American smokers to like NCs', but big cigar distributors have a stake in farms and production facilities in Central America and the DR that they won't want to waste.

[laficion]

Here in The Netherlands people LOVE non cubans, because most Dutch people are pretty cheap and don't believe a cigar is worth 10 dollars

Well, I won't dare go that far, but It's true that in the Netherlands, the Dutch were used to cigars

that came from their colonies such as Sumatra, Java and Borneo.

since then they have replaced those cigars by a few NC's. mostly General cigars's, Anyhow, Holland

has never been or ever had, a Cuban cigar culture.

Coming back to the suject, I'm sure that it has nothing to do with copyright or what have you.

LGC that is made in Miami and the DR. is sold here under the name " El Credito " OK, that's for copyright reasons.

But the others have no problems with that , it's just that the AMERICAN FLAVOUR & TASTE PROFIL, is just not the taste that is

prefered in Europe or elsewhere in general. Americans love that strong pepper and sugar taste, which they find in tobacco that comes

from Nic. But if you go to Nic. and search to smoke what the local people smoke, they will not be smoking that flavour profil of cigars.

When Americans go to Nic. on organized trips, they visit and smoke cigars from the big brands there and which are mostly made for

the US standards of taste and because it's their biggest market. If you ask an American if he ever tasted cigars that are smoked by

the locals or cigars that are not exported to the US, ( example, Nic. cigars sold in Europe but not sold in the USA.), they will find those

cigars are not to his accepted standards plus in general, they'll never stray away from the group to check out the locals anyway.

Americans in general want a cigar that starts off with a blast of spices, strong with lots of HUMFFF and a sugary something or other.

When they light up a Cuban, right off they say that it's too light and has no taste.They don't take the time to enjoy the

different developments that evolves in a Habano.

In the history of cigars in the USA, the big cigar makers have never been contented to leave nature alone. They created

the clear Havana, a mix of tobacco that only Cuban tobacco could make them smokable. Green wrappers, homigenized tobacco.

And coming back in fashion, flavored cigars.

The big NC companies have miseducated & misguided the American cigar smoker for over 50 years, but the problem is

that they've come to believe their own BS and they are now trying to export elsewhere other then the USA.

Well, until the whole world out there is eating nothing else but McDo's, NC's will still be finding it rough to sell outside of the USA.

[Daidemo]

Definitely Cubans in Europe but there are people smoking Dominicans mostly because they think that all Cubans are too strong for them.

I’ve checked my cigar notes: from 1999 I made notes for 221 different cigars and only 19 are non-Cuban.

In last three years I tried only one new non-Cuban vitola (Nicaraguan Oliva, Torpedo, Serie V) – it was a gift from a cigar shop owner from Brussels (unsuccessful attempt to sell more non-Cuban cigars). I believe that is the same with many cigar smokers there – I really don’t know any serious smokers who are buying non-Cubans on regular basis.

[dicko]

From my personal experience in oz people smoke majority cubans (of 'premium' long filler cigars), maybe 80% as Canuck suggested. Reasons - cubans are more available, similar price as non-cubans (cohiba and padron cost the same), and of course generally better quality. Personally, I smoke 80-90% cubans to non-cubans.

We don't have the same mystique of "forbidden fruit'' or whatever but still people think cuban when you say cigar. for example ive been smoking a non-cuban at a party and someone asked "is that a cuban??" etc

[jdeese88]

Hope this is not too far off topic but, could the reason why the embargo has not been lifted is because these NC companies are somehow persuading the US to keep this embargo?(this and the politicians who try to win Florida's votes) Since money makes the world go around, it will be in the best interest for these NC companies to keep this embargo in the US, since this is where most of their share of profit is coming from. And I'm sure these NC companies would do whatever they can to keep this embargo, wether it being lobbying in Congress or even lining politicians pockets. Reading this thread made me think of this, and to me it doesn't seem too far fetched. This could explain why we have not seen this embargo lifted and possibly won't ever see it lifted..... Just something I was thinking about....

[Colt45]

And I'm sure these NC companies would do whatever they can to keep this embargo....

You can be pretty sure they're not looking forward to an end to the embargo. I've read a few articles, and I know there are a few things posted

here somewhere. Swedish Match and Imperial Tobacco own most of the names, also found in Cuba, in the U.S. Imperial has a half stake in

Habanos, so that should be no problem. Swedish Match will want their piece of the pie, but as you said, business is business.

The general gist of the articles was that producers will want some kind of protections, or fair trade - something along those lines.

[Stalebread]

I can't say what the cigar smoking community outside the US smokes primarily.

I can offer a few observations:

-- cigar stores here in Paris offer cigars other than Cubans. In one well known shop, I would guess that 20% of their shelf space is given over to non-Cuban cigars. Certainly Davidoffs, Avo, and Flor de Selva have a presence. Other brands, too, seem to be making an effort to move into the European market. Recently I was in a cigar store in Brussels and was surprised to see quite a few Tatuaje on display. And for some reason that is way beyond me -- the Nub.

-- The European Cigar Cult Journal regularly reviews cigars from all cigar producing countries.

-- As I understand it, to be a LCDH you can only sell Cuban cigars. Nevertheless, one Casa in Europe I have visited seems to get around this by having two adjacent stores -- one for Cubans and one for everything else. That would be a lot of expense if non-Cuban cigars did not sell.

-- In some countries -- like here in France and Spain -- "cigar", as far as I can tell, is synonymous with Habanos. In other European countries like Germany, Belgium and Austria, they seem to be a little more relaxed in their definition. Some on-line stores from Germany in particular (not LCDHs) show quite a selection of non-Cuban cigars. I don't know if anyone smokes them but they seem to be available.

There's plenty of variety and to each his own. I wish them all success.

.

[cigarros]

In countries of the ex-Soviet Union cigar culture counts is not a long time.

However, the addiction of smokers had a tremendous impact by our closest neighbors - Germany, the Balkans and Turkey.

Here a lot of cigarette smokers, but many of those who smoke cigars and this number is growing year by year.

Since recent times when the Soviet Union provided aid to Cuba here formed a strong opinion that real cigars may be only from Cuba.

Nevertheless there is very active distributors of NC cigars. They actively preach that Cuba is not the single cigar country in the world and their cigars more better

But I can say with great confidence that the Cubans bad works here. NC sellers take the initiative and build their sales on the opposition theirselves and cubans . They say that in Cuba everything is bad, but they have all good))

But most smokers smokes only Cuban cigars at a rate of about 70\30