Cohiba sublimes LE 2004 - are these FAKE?

[oakley]

Hello to everybody, this is my first post here, so please be patient with me!

I recently bought and just received a box of 25 Cohiba sublimes LE 2004 from an online retailer located in spain.

I inspected them carefully, sectioned one of them, taken some photos for you experts.

I am convinced tat these are fake, but I could be wrong. Will you let me have your sincere opinion about these?

You can see all the photos following this link.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/34440689@N04/

Thanks a lot

Andrew

Some selcted pics below.

[CBL]

Honestly, they look okay to me. The foot looks pretty well filled and it has a nice triple cap and decent wrapper. Presentation is also spot on. The only thing that looks off to me is the filling, way too many loose and small pieces. But the most important question is probably: How do they smoke?

If these are fake they're some of the best looking fakes I've seen yet.

[Kangaroo495]

Is there a barcode somewhere on the box? Cigars look ok. Bands too

[Guest rob]

Based on the packaging (not the cigars)... I suspect fakes - Im 99.9% certain that the packaging is anyway.

* Warranty seal of JS is extremely suspect. An 04 box code should have lettering of approximately "F" or "G" --

Refer to Trevors website http://www.cubancigarwebsite.com/info-packaging.htm#Seals

Scroll down to "Warranty Seal - 1999 to 2009" and check out teh table that shows Box Date and Serial Number Prefixes

* There was no RSE box code for Sublimes.

* The EL band should be embossed.

There are more details that stand out, but the above 3 points clinch it for me. If it was only one thing I wouldn't be so certain - but there are a number of packaging / date flaws.

By the way, it would have been nice if your first post was an introduction and a "hello" in the New Member section... .

[Kangaroo495]

* There was no RSE box code for Sublimes.

Rob, where do you get that info, mate?

[Guest rob]

Rob, where do you get that info, mate?

Just aquired info over the years. Lots of reading and sluething.

The most common codes for Cohiba Sublimes are : GKI, LLN, SOL & SVF

There may be others, but Im sceptical of authenticity of them unless provenance can be assured 100%. I re-iterate - the 4 codes listed above may not be definitive.

In reference to this thread, and like I said in my original reply... its not any one thing alone that assures me they're fake... its a number of things that dont add up.

[oakley]

Based on the packaging (not the cigars)... I suspect fakes - Im 99.9% certain that the packaging is anyway.

There are more details that stand out, but the above 3 points clinch it for me. If it was only one thing I wouldn't be so certain - but there are a number of packaging / date flaws.

By the way, it would have been nice if your first post was an introduction and a "hello" in the New Member section... .

Rob thanks. Your points are really interesting. I am always more convinced that they are fake.

Also please forgive me for being rude not having said hello in the New Members section. I was just so angry for the fakes that I rushed here to write. Sorry.

Thanks for your reply and to anybody else here.

Andrew

[Guest rob]

Your frustration is valid... I would also be pissed off.

My suggestion is to hang around these forums and you'll pick up tons of great advice and meet a lot of great people.

Welcome. Look forward to seeing you around.

[Ryan]

Rob thanks. Your points are really interesting. I am always more convinced that they are fake.

Also please forgive me for being rude not having said hello in the New Members section. I was just so angry for the fakes that I rushed here to write. Sorry.

Thanks for your reply and to anybody else here.

Andrew

Hi Andrew, I saw your post on CA too, you were asking for trustworthy online sources.

Well you've come to a good place.

[finecigar]

There are many things that seem to be "off" about these...

I always take a different route- While everyone asks and says, "are these fake/counterfeit?" or "prove they could be fake?"

After listing lots of reasons why and how, there will always be some uncertainty- So I think to myself... "prove they are real. Is that even possible?"

There is a word for this in my language and I can't really seem to translate it how I would like. Hopefully is not confusing

[cigcars]

*There's a possibly teeny-weeny little thing I look for too in a supposed La Casa Del Habanos box's make-up: The piece of cedar sheet separating the top group of cigars from the bottom--it's supposed to have a neatly rounded cut out at the right top corner, a half-quarter cut diameter to be able to lift the sheet up. I notice the cut at the right tip of the cedar sheet is straight flat, not neatly rounded.

[oakley]

Hi Andrew, I saw your post on CA too, you were asking for trustworthy online sources.

Well you've come to a good place.

Exactly. I've been lurking on these sites for months learning many things I didn't know. But this event triggered my reaction and so I wrote my first posts.

Thanks for all answers. You are incredible.

Andrew

[CanuckSARTech]

Hard to tell, for me. I don't have a box of these (wish I did, though!) - maybe those that do can offer some more commentary on it.

Rob's post illustrates it well (not sure where you're reading the box code from though, Rob - I don't see a picture with it).

But, the bands seem a bit off to me. The "Habana, Cuba" script looks like it's too far up in the yellow, up against the gold box. And yes, the EL band seems off too. But, like's been said many times before, bands do have a tendency to be imperfect - just like the Cuban factories.

But, the Cohiba box latch seems off to me too. I don't recollect seeing any that "crimp" in to the wood like that - all the ones I've seen are nailed into the box. Anyone else have a box of these? Anyone can vouch for it being done this way??

(And welcome to the forum, Andrew75.)

[Guest rob]

not sure where you're reading the box code from though, Rob - I don't see a picture with it

Check out the "flickr" link in the original post CST.

[CanuckSARTech]

Check out the "flickr" link in the original post CST.

Ahhhh, perfect. Thank you, Rob. I blew right past it, and just looked at the nice, warm-and-fuzzy pictures right below. I completely missed the whole "...some selected pictures..." comment.

[CanuckSARTech]

Okay, after looking through those photos, I'd tend to agree with Rob. Again, I don't have these cigars myself, so I can't really conclusively help out. But something does just seem "off" with some of the stuff - the bands, the factory stamp, the Habanos branding, etc. To me, it also seems like those triple-caps are a bit excessively done, too. Almost like they were making a point of you being able to see it. In my experience, it seems to come down way too far, and be too big of a triple-wrap.

And, I'll recorrect my other posting. I HAVE indeed seen a Cohiba box clasp like that, attached in the way it is - I looked, and indeed that's actually how mine are on my Maduro Secretos boxes. But, something just seems off to me with that box closure. On mine, the brass is stamped in such a way that it "looks" like it is attached with nails. The tabs, so to speak, on either side are more hidden, and it's not as up front as to it's attachment method.

[in0gravity]

These look familiar. If it is the spanish shop I am thinking of then they are fakes. I was foolish enough to buy a box and smoked one straight out of the box and was so disappointed that I wasted my money on these. No flavors what do ever, just hot air.

Recently bought two singles from the Davidoff Store in London which where totally different in appearance and flavor. Even the size was different! After discovering this I thrashed my box.

[Scardinoz]

Is there a barcode somewhere on the box?

That's the first thing I thought of, too, but it's things like this that I always look for...

The piece of cedar sheet separating the top group of cigars from the bottom--it's supposed to have a neatly rounded cut out at the right top corner, a half-quarter cut diameter to be able to lift the sheet up. I notice the cut at the right tip of the cedar sheet is straight flat, not neatly rounded.

The more obscure the detail, the better. Labels, seals, and bands will always be forged scrupulously but cedar sheets, hinges, and the wood will always be an afterthought.

[oakley]

I smoked one of them, and I felt a bitter flavor already from the first third of the cigar. Very bitter. At the end of the cigar I felt a kind of coffe flavor that pleased me, but the mouth was definitely covered with that bitter taste. The tongue was also burned, but that probably because I was puffing too fast, well beyond the 2 puffs per minute. Overall not a pleasant smoking experience.

Regarding the printed labels, bands, rings, seals... They are done in a way so that the average smoker could be fooled, but your posts make clear that these too present many defects and are definitely fake.

The "hardware" elements such as box, hinges, cedar sheets are very decent, but overall they show many suspect elements.

I have shipped all the boxed remaining cigars to a friend of mine that is much more experienced than me just to have a review regarding their quality, to know if they can be smoked after all or if they should be directly thrashed.

I want to thank you all because you were precise and illuminating.

Thanks again guys.

andrew

[android]

Andrew, Welcome to FOH...don't worry my friend your bruised up knees & elbows will heal. Lesion one is behind you now! (reliable source) I will post some pics' of my box for you to compare & envy!

[Esteban77]

The Habanos sticker on the cardboard box is the 2010 variety. This is a dead give-away that these are fake that sticker was not around when the cigars were made.

[CanuckSARTech]

I smoked one of them, and I felt a bitter flavor already from the first third of the cigar. Very bitter. At the end of the cigar I felt a kind of coffe flavor that pleased me, but the mouth was definitely covered with that bitter taste. The tongue was also burned, but that probably because I was puffing too fast, well beyond the 2 puffs per minute. Overall not a pleasant smoking experience.

Regarding the printed labels, bands, rings, seals... They are done in a way so that the average smoker could be fooled, but your posts make clear that these too present many defects and are definitely fake.

The "hardware" elements such as box, hinges, cedar sheets are very decent, but overall they show many suspect elements.

I have shipped all the boxed remaining cigars to a friend of mine that is much more experienced than me just to have a review regarding their quality, to know if they can be smoked after all or if they should be directly thrashed.

I want to thank you all because you were precise and illuminating.

Thanks again guys.

andrew

If your supplier is worth their merit, they will accept a return shipment for a full refund of crap product. If not, contact your credit card, explain the situation to them, and that the business is refusing to accept your return - usually, the credit card company will get in contact with the retailer and demand that they accept the return for a refund, and/or the credit card company will directly refund your money to your account (and then debit the business).

I've had to do both in the past. A smart consumer demanding good product doesn't have to pay a business for anything below-level.

[CanuckSARTech]

Andrew, Welcome to FOH...don't worry my friend your bruised up knees & elbows will heal. Lesion one is behind you now! (reliable source) I will post some pics' of my box for you to compare & envy!

Good, you have a verified box of these Android? It would definitely help for people to be able to see any differences.

[CanuckSARTech]

The Habanos sticker on the cardboard box is the 2010 variety. This is a dead give-away that these are fake that sticker was not around when the cigars were made.

WOW! Good catch! I didn't even pick up on that! You're absolutely right.

[oakley]

--The Habanos sticker on the cardboard box is the 2010 variety.--

Another element that confirms that the yare fake. Thanks again.

-- I will post some pics' of my box for you to compare --

I would appreciate that, and that would be useful to anybody here I think.

--If your supplier is worth their merit, they will accept a return shipment for a full refund of crap product.--

I immediately wrote an email to them, but to no avail. No answer whatsoever from them. It's so silly.

For sure I will not buy from them again, but it would be right for other people to know the name of the online retailer. I think I can't write their URL here publicly, but I would answer to any private posts.

Regarding the CC issuer...I will make a call tomorrow and se what they tell me about a possible refund option. Thanks for the suggestion. It's worth a try given the money spent.

Andrew