Relevance Lost

[PigFish]

You ever feel this way? I have been coming to this realization regarding my relationship to the cigar hobby society and the Cuban cigar in general.

No... this is not a Thursday night, cry in my Scotch night, but a realization that the Cuban cigar is somewhat developing around me and in many ways without me. I think I am stuck in the past!!!

The Cuban cigar is, or shall I say, has been easier to smoke the past few years. That is a good thing for all of us. They are easier to buy and it is easier to buy good ones. Whether this is the result of the slow down in the market or a combination of other factors like less models being available, in many ways there seems to be less for me to talk about. Less knowledge, less expertise is required to find a good cigar as cigars in general get better. There does not seem to be much need in the knowledge of the cigars that I have the most interest in; they are becoming a thing of the past. It has taken a short decade to make me a dinosaur. My favorite cigars are anachronistic and I appear to going in the same direction.

I don't have much interest in behemoth, ogre sized cigars. In appearance they are classless, and boorish beasts. When I can enjoy high fidelity out of my iPod why would carry around a boom-box? I generally don't like limp cigars, cigars that draw like straws, or in general, smoking the same cigar for 3 hours. The market, in its move in this direction has moved away from me as much as I have moved away from it. I don't put more food on my plate than I can eat. I can't see shoveling (good) food into the mouth of a trash can. Therefore, I can't see laying down a (good) cigar because it is more than my time permits. Cigars should fit the smoker, not a marketing campaign; not visa versa.

The EL and RE hype is of no interest to me either. Frankly don't care about them. They are rolled on the same blocks, by the same hands and with the same tobacco that my favorites are. They are more expensive and no more reliable than the cigars I smoke now. I tend to prefer tried and true to the new and 'exclusive.' I like to read from real paper.... I don't text message from my phone; I call the ******* guy instead!!! I use the practical and the efficient, the cost effective, not the trendy. I think it takes more time to prove value than a one year production window. I have never been attracted to a car lot based on a holiday weekend sale! I want products suited to me and don't wish to compromise to suit the product. Am I alone in this?

I recognize an improvement when I see it. Is the 60 ring $100 dollar cigar an improvement? Who exactly is being improved by that production model.... certainly not me?

I am wondering if the Partagas Serie du Connaisseur cancellation was the last straw for me. While I enjoy the Monte 1, 3 and 4; sometimes I want to smoke an RAPC, or a Partagas Coronas and a Diplomatico 1. I go down a list of cigars and I just don't see anything that I want to buy anymore! I drone on about the same topics... the same cigars. Without new years production of my favorites there is little interest for me and little new to talk about.

I am certainly not going to smoke what I don't like. If I was willing to walk away from the NC cigar, ones that I also disliked for many of the same reasons, I am willing to walk away from these as well!

Contrary thoughts always encouraged! -Piggy

[anacostiakat]

No you are not alone!

I think I have compensated somewhat for some of this with my gravitation to corona gorda/extras from larger (DC/Churchill though I still enjoy them) formats. Avoiding the jawbreakers.

With the amount of cigars my wife and I consume my budget just doesnt allow me to chase after every new thing on the market. So that is a blessing.

The continued loss of the cigars I like is troubling indeed. That is why I have begun ordering and trying some that I havent had (or never had) that fit the sizes that I now prefer.

The revollution will not be televised.

[Wiley]

I agree with you. I posted something like this a couple of years ago. I think it was here.

My hope is that some day after the embargo ends, private companies will gain access to Cuban tobacco, and they will make money on smaller runs on whatever market segment Habanos has left by the way.

[dcse]

Amen. You are spot on.

[jacksfull]

You are not alone.

Not sure I'm willing to walk away. But, it would be nice to be able to do more exploring in the old standard sizes, and less mourning of lost choices.

[Colt45]

When a feeling of disenfranchisement begins to take away the joy, perhaps it is time to move on. It is a corporate monopoly, and perhaps as such, some of

the heritage, the soul, has been lost - or at least pushed aside for the time being. While horizons have broadened, it does seem vision has narrowed.

I'm not qualified to make that assessment.

But let's not forget those in the industry who do know, who do care, who do work hard to try to keep the "magic". As others have mentioned, we can hope for a

day in the near future where there will be more than one game in town. Until then, I'm pretty sure I'll be happy to turn my attention to a cigar named "Tampa".

[El Presidente]

This is a general view, not aimed at you Ray.

I am as appalled about the deletions of the Connie 1/2/3 as anyone. However I know reinstating deletions only takes the stroke of a pen.

Altadis/Imperial have about as much idea of Cuban cigars as Chrysler. Both run at about the same efficiency. They are the current holders of the torch....no more than that. Their time will come. Corporate reality.

Cigars are about people. Guy and his cigar club encapsulates it. Gino same...Nino same...Guillaume same....ours same. F*** cigar corporate headquarters, keep in mind cigars are not rocket science, share one with a mate, have a laugh and work in charities if you want to see some real woes.

Cigars are the cross on the "T" the dot on the "i"...they have never been the main game which is friendship, camaraderie, loyalty. fraternity. LAUGHTER!

It has never been about collecting "vintage" or "RR" or "LE". It has been about sharing time with people you like and care about.

People like Guy, Gino, Nino, Guillaume are the keepers of the flame because they encapsulate all that is great about cigars. It has nothing to do with HSA or current trends. Ignore them and don't let them get you down. We are talking about cigars....a great hobby..a great passion but certainly not life or death.

[Cletus]

...I don't put more food on my plate than I can eat...

What kind of American are you?!?

...I don't have much interest in behemoth, ogre sized cigars....

I agree with this assessment. My favorite smokes are under one hour.

.

[MrGlass]

Interesting topic.

I have only been getting into Cubans for about a year now. As such, the current conditions aren't as shocking to me simply because I don't know any better.

Whilst I absolutely love a DC, it has to be in the right conditions. The behemoth sized cigars certainly have a novelty factor for me, for the moment. But when it comes to buying boxes, I always buy based on what I know I will enjoy smoking if/when I'm alone. Which means something smaller than these.

I don't like the EL and RE hype either. I've tried a few singles, but have never been impressed enough to even consider getting anymore than this.

I'm hoping that things change in the not too distant future for the better. I like to have some choice.

[thechenman]

While I agree with Piggy regarding the deletion of so many fine vitolas within marcas being a travesty, I don't have the time vested in CCs like Piggy does. I've only been enjoying them for about 1 1/2 years. Still...I've seen some great cigars that I love smoking get deleted (i.e., Punch Royal Selection 11 & 12, Rafael Gonzalez Corona Extra, Diplomaticos No. 4, just to name a few). I guess because of that, I'm just rolling with the punches. While I can certainly see Piggy's POV and empathize with it, we can always hope that things will change for the better down the road. Whether that happans or not, who knows...but like The Prez says...its a great hobby, but they are just cigars...it's not life or death.

[Colt45]

I may be reading more into this than there actually is, but I sense it's not just about deletions - objects. But that it might be the mindset behind

these actions, which could arguably cause a sense of abandonment or feeling of being taken advantage of.

I don't include myself, but I know we have quite a few members for whom the Cuban cigar is a true passion, who've been been with it for some time,

only to see, in some ways, what they've devoted so much time to turned into a "luxury item", something foreign - to be dramatic, something grotesque.

In a way, a friend you've supported turning their back on you when things were good for them.

Many of us can remember when peasant food was just that - something our moms made because that's all we had. Now, that tough cut of braised

meat, or simply dressed pasta or rice - the kind of stuff nobody used to want - is often considered haute cuisine.

But I do agree that when all's said and done, a cigar is a simple pleasure and should remain so - it should not bring sadness.

[samb]

While I dont necessarily see cigars as a way of life, I do see them as part of life. I love the cigar, and I see great smokes that I enjoy on the chopping block, I refuse to let it get me down. There is still a plethora of smokes out there to enjoy!!

[investandprosper]

I don't quite understand the gravitation to goliath ring gauges (Behike, for one). It looks like they are trying to appeal to those who smoke for show.

I understand your view on the ELs and REs. However, with anything, there are quality cigars for a decent price in those lots. The H. Upmann Magnum 48 EL is one. The price is reasonable, and the quality of the cigar is superb.

I believe Prez said in one of his reviews that the Cohiba Siglo II is the best Petit Corona out there, and I wholeheartedly agree! Pick up a few of those, and I think it will change your outlook on the direction of the Cuban cigar market. As samb said, even though they may axe a cigar or two, there are SO many other cigars available to enjoy.

[jacksfull]

I may be reading more into this than there actually is, but I sense it's not just about deletions - objects. But that it might be the mindset behind these actions, which could arguably cause a sense of abandonment or feeling of being taken advantage of.

I think you're onto something there, though it is still about the deletions first... but also about the fear that they indicate the future extinction of a whole class of cigars that many smokers enjoy.

Certainly, there has been a viable market for larger ring cigars of late and it's just fine that HSA wants to address that demand. However, there seems little reason to discard so many traditional cigars in the process. So, why is this happening?

It's doubtful that it has much to do with the production process. Handmade cigars are crafted, not manufactured. There is little in the way of economies of scale to create any great advantage in reducing SKU's, at least not from a production standpoint. Even the packaging is mostly hand-crafted. Bands and labels are manufactured, but there isn't much advantage in printing huge runs of one style versus a wider variety in smaller quantity.

I don't think the tobacco is the problem either. Not right now, anyway. If there were shortages I could understand if some items had to be sacrificed in order to supply the raw materials for other new ones. But such does not seem to be the case. We've heard reports of stockpiles of tobacco due to decreases in overall sales, fewer acres planted, and higher quality cigars that perhaps indicate the use of tobacco with more age going to the rolling tables.

How about the torcedores? From what I've heard many are out of work. Those still plying their trade are accustomed to rolling a variety of vitolas. I can't see this being the issue. In fact, if the reaction found here to many favored cigars suddenly finding themselves discontinued is any indication, then it would appear that HSA is sacrificing sales rather than merely switching them over to other items... and this at a time when nearly everyone is lamenting reduced revenues and lost jobs.

Call it corporatism inherited from Altadis/Imperial... maybe bureaucracy welling up from HSA and the Cuban government itself... perhaps just plain ol' pigheadedness. I don't know. But it does seem that Cuba is following rather than leading. Like so many auto makers late to the table releasing new behemoth SUV's at a time when those looking ahead see the world readying itself for more efficient designs. Might the same not be true in the cigar arena?

The economy stinks nearly everywhere (with the possible exception of China). Don't more economical cigars make sense? Maybe in NC's that means bundles, inferior tobacco and sandwich construction. But in CC's it should mean the same great taste and quality tobaccos formated to be more affordable. Funny thing is, the vast majority of cigars deleted over the past 10-years fit that criteria to a tee. Even your typical American trendite will eventually find it preferable to be able to afford a Petit Corona a few times a week (if not everyday) rather than some overpriced super massive El Gordo Suprema a couple of times a month. Looking backward to guide one's product selection and marketing will eventually bite you in the butt (pun intended).

[Stalebread]

Relevance lost . . . ?

No. I'm willing to bet not.

Temporarily misplaced maybe.

But not lost.

[SethLG]

Its a shame to see so many people so upset about the changes stemming from Habanos. I know there are some great cigars that won't be made anymore and I know a lot of you have really enjoyed those, and that is to bad. Change is never easy, especially when it involves something that you prefer or like. However change is inevitable. It would be a shame to see so many, I guess you can say quit, because of something along these lines. Yes people are making larger cigars, and yes people are making RR and Limited Editions, but why is that?

Well you make them like that because people want them. I know tons of non Cuban manufactures who ask customer, what type of cigar would you like? What type of sizes do you smoke? etc. etc. and I bet Habanos does the same thing, and because of that you have a successful business.

Why do you make limited editions, because they are fun, some are great some are not, but who here hasn't bought a box of LE's because they are LE's. If you say no, you're lying, and the same goes with regional edition cigars, they are great, the concept is wonderful. I think anytime anyone goes to certain parts around the world they look for RR because that is that regions are RR and its not common where they are. I was talking with Tim Ozgenzer of CAO and we were talking about cigars and Cubans and then I made the joke, you know you should make regional releases for America, by state, or east coast, west coast, central, or whatever, and we laughed over the idea but obviously nothing happened.

Don't quit because the things you love don't exist anymore, keep those for special occasions, and search for something else, I promise you that you will find something else that you love once more.

[Colt45]

Why do you make limited editions, because they are fun......

and because you can make far fewer and charge much more

[Wiley]

The tyranny of the majority.

If the fatties sell so much better, maybe it's my fault that I don't enjoy them? Maybe I haven't given them enough of a chance?

Or maybe, just maybe, the majority don't know their asses from holes in the ground.

If all I cared about was smoking with friends, why would I bother with Cubans? I could smoke some dog-rockets from the local NC shop, save some money, and not worry about the law.

[El Presidente]

If all I cared about was smoking with friends, why would I bother with Cubans? I could smoke some dog-rockets from the local NC shop, save some money, and not worry about the law.

Good point.

Like the majority of us I like to smoke what I enjoy...which happens to be Cubans. If Nics of Doms did it for me I would be just as happy.

If I don't like a Cuban I don't buy it. I don't whinge about people who do (ok....maybe Monte Opens !LOL!).

HSA is no friend to the Cuban Cigar lover. It is a corporate animal so treat it with the reverence it deserves. Cigar culture is different altogether and the two should not be confused.

A stroke of a pen reinstates brands. Remember the years PLPC's were unavailable? Times will change. Intelligent people who understand the complexities of managing/balancing a historical treasure with modern economics will take the helm.

[PigFish]

I have a few points to my very good friends here. Remember... I like to write and I like to share my "thoughts" as well as my opinions. It makes for good reading (I think), interesting conversation and most of all it allows me to be known by other members. Opening up life, laughing, lamenting, often loudest at myself is what makes me... me! And, it gets others to do the same. I write down the names and blackmail them when they run for office....

Opps! Sorry! I was thinking of another site!!!

On a positive note, I am not ready for the suicide hotline yet!!! -LOL

Ross, you really hit it in many ways. I enjoy the study of how my written words are perceived and who changes the topic, runs with the topic or identifies with the topic. You really captured more than you know with your post. REALLY!

Most of you know I am big on analogies. Here is one.

You have enjoyed your ranch home for decades. You fish in your stream, you shoot in your back yard, your animals run free. Over the last ten years or so your neighbors have sold their places and moved on. Their places have become run down and you regularly have to run transients off your land and fix their damage. You resign yourself to this; things change.

One day you discover that the land that is adjacent to yours has been sold to a big developer. He is planning on building 20 thousand units in your back yard! The city has come to you! As the buildings get built in front of your meadow view, you become a foreigner in your own home. People are dumping garbage on your land and cutting your trees. The neighbors complain about your shooting and the dust from your animals. The new population wants to form a city! They want sewers and sidewalks, streetlight and new laws.

I am being obsoleted by progress itself, and while I am not against obsolescence or progress I am disheartened to see it transpire so quickly, so carelessly. I am not crying about it but I am observing it, studying it and writing about it. I certainly don't like it, but there is little I can do about it short of accepting it. How much do you write about it... obsess about it before you become irrelevant?

Rob, I enjoy your advice and input as always. I know that it was generalized and not really directed at me but I would like to respond to it none the less. Frankly it looks like Wiley got to it before I finished this but since I wrote this part a couple of days ago I will post it none the less. You have expanded the fraternal aspects of cigars, one that I greatly enjoy. I can see why you focus on this, it is of course the fraternal aspects that brought us together as friends.

In many, many ways I am a personal reflective smoker, more so than I am a fraternal (party) smoker. I was a hedonistic, self absorbed smoker before I was a fraternal smoker and it seems as though that is where my roots are. While cigars are often most enjoyed with friends, they are none the less enjoyed by me as a self absorbed form of individual indulgence. They are one of life's inexpensive and simple pleasures. While my overall experience is better with good friends and a good cigar, a good friend does not make a bad cigar a good one. While the fraternal aspects address the cigar society issue and a primary concern, they don't address the core issue. The fraternal aspects may mask the issue, it may change the relevance of the issue to some, but the issue still exists. I went in deliberate search of the social aspects of cigar smoking and started making my friends on-line as a result of this very passion and through my writing about it. Like all things though, the cart must come after the horse. The power in front of me are my favorite cigars and it looks like my horse has been euthanized!

I did not start this to whine about Tabacuba again! Hell, I do that enough already. But it seems to me that by limiting my choices that blasted company has limited my enjoyment, actually and socially, and frankly I am more than a little pissed off about it. I see cigar smoking as a hedonistic activity. It is not a necessary part of my life in any way, shape or form. It is an enjoyable indulgence; it is a luxury. It adds to my life and should not detract from it. I don't know if "rely" on it is actually correct but there is a link there as Ross indicated.

I see the current trend of Tabacuba taking me down the road of becoming a non-smoker! I simply won't allow myself to be a square peg pounded into a round hole. Thankfully I have years worth of smoking time in storage but that does not make the sting of the present course less painful. I enjoy shopping for cigars. I have enjoyed the pursuit, the opining, the becoming the outspoken advocate for the cigars that I enjoy the most, but who wants to hear about cigars you can't buy anymore? I have never lived in the past. I don't want to be one of those, "well in the old days... we did it this way," kind of guys. Those people who live in the past annoy me! I don't want to become one of them yet that is where I seem to be going.

From my perspective something has been taken from me. It is not theft of course as I never owned the rights to discontinued cigars. I have "no say" in the Cuban tobacco industry except as an old advocate and consumer. My complaint is that I am being cast out as obsolete, insignificant just like the traditional cigars that I enjoy the most. It is the realization of this process, this system by which I must be molded, changed or evolved, or get passed by that has got me to writing this. It sucks!!! Okay... I am not going to slice my wrists over it. I am still going to continue to be vocal and less than cordial about it. But I'm getting weary of beating the same old drum, and I would be truely surprised if you guys are not getting equally tired of hearing it. I mean sometimes I post and say to myself...."Jesus Ray! Not again!!!"

When I am at my bench in the garage, or on the porch with the dog and my sidekick is a Le Hoyo du Roi there is no fraternity, no camaraderie. There I am... and there is the cigar. Within the confines of the hedonistic smoker, the cigar is everything not just part of a bigger thing. The other good things (relating to cigar society) start there. You take away the good cigar and those times go away with it.

-Piggy

[aavkk]

but who here hasn't bought a box of LE's because they are LE's. If you say no, you're lying,

Yes, I'll admit that I own a small amount of boxes of EL's and RE's but only because they were generally considered fantastic cigars and never because they were "limited". I waited to hear from those whose palates I respect before buying boxes. I am all about sourcing great cigars and even better if those cigars are priced like the 02 La Glorias. I only smoke once or twice a week and for me that equates to not having time to deal with shitty cigars even if they are "limited". A great cigar is a great cigar and who cares what the label (or even better lack there of) says.

[Omskakas]

Personally, as a protest of some sort, I've decided to boycott LEs and REs. I still continue to buy regular production as long as there are cigars I like. Still, despite the deletions, there are many cigars worth of my money. What are the other options? Stop smoking or NC cigars? Ha!

[doscervezas]

In many, many ways I am a personal reflective smoker, more so than I am a fraternal (party) smoker.

Me too. In many ways the market is skewing away from us. Just this Friday I was in one of the few cigar friendly bars left in town and while selecting a smoke for now (and more than a few for later!) I overheard a couple of suits say something along the lines of "I don't care what it is as long as it's huge".

Luckily the fashion for the larger vitolas will pass as surely as the tragically out of fashion Lonsdale. In the meantime there are still a lot of great cigars in need of smoking.

[bunburyist]

Like all things though, the cart must come after the horse.

that's it in a nutshell for me Pig.

[Bartolomeo]

Good points made by Ray. He has taught me probably the most about cigars since I started almost a year ago......and he is correct, he doesn't text on his cell

Bart