A rebellious cuban legend or a genocidal fanatic?

[finecigar]

I see his face on the Ellie Bleu humidors, t-shirts, posters, and sometimes by the misguided youth. I am curious what the members of this forum view him as. I have currently read some surprising articles and have little knowledge of what he actually did. What is your opinion of this man?

Not that he was seen with Fidel smoking a cigar or his face on a 3k humidor, but really- who was Che?

[finecigar]

Sorry if already mentioned before. I just am curious and would like to be informed. Thanks.

[Jimmy2]

He was a very bad man...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Che_Guevara

[Ken Gargett]

interesting you should post this now.

i'm half way through a fabulous book on him and fidel, called, not surprisingly, 'fidel and che', by simon reid-henry. really recommend it. will give you a much greater understanding of his actions and where he came from (where they both came from and how they met). so far, fairly balanced - perhaps a little more positive than che deserves (for me, his one redeeming quality was he was a rugby player tho the book doesn't go near that). che did take up cigars after he met fidel. he was always far more into communism than fidel - i think fidel was and is simply into whatever best suits at the time.

one thing i remember from another book on the cuban missile crisis (am away at the moment so don't have the exact name and authors) was that che argued strongly that they pull the trigger and send the bomb off to the states, whereas fidel was strongly opposed. for that alone, history should condemn che.

i find it extraordinary that he is portrayed as some sort of ambassador for peace when he was anything but. had no problem with shooting his own side if he thought it warranted. i think he was a murdering thug close to insanity. also a little ironic that all the posters etc that stem from the one iconic photo - which was taken after he'd been dead a while, trying to led a revolutionary coup in bolivia from memory, that was simply a farce.

[Mr. Japan]

To wath I understand from reading and talking to old cuban people he was a murderer of the worst species using Revolution for his pown pleasure.

[Buch0]

To wath I understand from reading and talking to old cuban people he was a murderer of the worst species using Revolution for his pown pleasure.

Pretty much sums him up as to my understanding.. Would love to watch a documentary on him though if anyone has seen one?

[bunburyist]

i think he was a murdering thug close to insanity

I'd second that.

Have that book as well - inspiration to start it as it's been on a pile of to-read for some time.

[bunburyist]

It's bizarre isn't it that he's come to rest alongside Bob Marley and Jesus on student t-shirts etc.

Guy ended up like most bad guys, shot up by the police.

[OZCUBAN]

And thanks to the bolivians MARTYRDOM to say he was misguided would be a massive understatement,the ideology he aspired to is dead and so is he

Oz

[android]

Crazy phyco!

[kaleehb]

Hey Ken,

Could you let me know the author and the exact name of the "Cuban Missile Crisis" book? There are so many titles on the subject and I'd like to read more on it. Thanks!

[finecigar]

Thanks to the responses- I think I have a better idea of who he was. Lately, his glorified self made me wonder & now I know. I read this article about his inhumane ways of killing- almost makes me sick in ways.

[finecigar]

interesting you should post this now.

i'm half way through a fabulous book on him and fidel, called, not surprisingly, 'fidel and che', by simon reid-henry. really recommend it. will give you a much greater understanding of his actions and where he came from (where they both came from and how they met). so far, fairly balanced - perhaps a little more positive than che deserves (for me, his one redeeming quality was he was a rugby player tho the book doesn't go near that). che did take up cigars after he met fidel. he was always far more into communism than fidel - i think fidel was and is simply into whatever best suits at the time.

one thing i remember from another book on the cuban missile crisis (am away at the moment so don't have the exact name and authors) was that che argued strongly that they pull the trigger and send the bomb off to the states, whereas fidel was strongly opposed. for that alone, history should condemn che.

i find it extraordinary that he is portrayed as some sort of ambassador for peace when he was anything but. had no problem with shooting his own side if he thought it warranted. i think he was a murdering thug close to insanity. also a little ironic that all the posters etc that stem from the one iconic photo - which was taken after he'd been dead a while, trying to led a revolutionary coup in bolivia from memory, that was simply a farce.

Wow thank you for the insight Ken- I would love to read that book- and will hopefully be buying it soon!

[puros71]

The best book by far on Fidel Castro is "Fidel:: A Critical Portrait by Tad Szulc"

http://www.amazon.com/Fidel-Critical-Portr...1204&sr=1-5

And for Che Guevara its "Che Guevara a Revolutionary Life by Jon Lee Anderson"

http://www.amazon.com/Che-Guevara-Revoluti.../ref=pd_sim_b_1

Well researched with interviews and good bibliographies.

[laficion]

I've always been interested in the how's and why's of the cuban revolution,

If there's one thing that I pretty sure of, it's that Fidel needed some fanatic

persons with him to be able to win the cause, but he was smart anough to get

rid of them once the job was done. Look at how all the top champions of the revolution

died and you'll understand. I'm pretty sure that Fidel had a hand in the death of the Che,

Sooner or later he would have wanted Fidel's seat and in my opinion, the cubans were much

better off with a Fidel then a Thug like Che, who would have been even worst as a dictator then Fidel.

[PigFish]

You might as well put Stalin on a t-shirt. Two twisted son-of-******* cut from the same cloth. If Stalin belongs on a 10 unit note then Che belongs on the one. These men are coinage from the same twisted tyrannical beliefs only differing in face value. -P

[riderpride]

I just got back from Santa Clara last week where I was able to visit his museum (no pics allowed), and he's portrayed as a romantic figure. It would be interesting to talk to some of the older generations and maybe get a different perspective. Batista was run out and few would complain, but Che likes to stir the pot and let others deal with the aftermath; had he really changed things, or just put a new face to oppression?

[bigfunkyg]

I was always disapointed that you couldn't by a single piece of merchandise with Castro's picture on it. I so badly wanted a t-shirt with Fidel smoking a Cohiba, but no such thing existed. Perhaps upon his death will the Fidel t-shirts begin to crop up.

It's unfortunate the the movie "Che" protrayed him in such a different light. It's almost as if that movies was a vehicle to drive more t-shirt sales and goofy hats with his image.

[Van55]

And for Che Guevara its "Che Guevara a Revolutionary Life by Jon Lee Anderson"

http://www.amazon.com/Che-Guevara-Revoluti.../ref=pd_sim_b_1

Well researched with interviews and good bibliographies.

I am slogging my way through the Jon Lee Anderson biography, and have been for a few weeks. Interesting, indeed. I knew virtually nothing about Ernesto Guevara before starting the book.

[Ken Gargett]

Hey Ken,

Could you let me know the author and the exact name of the "Cuban Missile Crisis" book? There are so many titles on the subject and I'd like to read more on it. Thanks!

will do when back home, on this thread. i recall it had a couple of authors, to give it different perspectives.

agree that it is extraordinary that his image now seems to be held up with doves and angels as some iconic peace activist. bizarre in the extreme. aside from the hairy legged, flag-waving, imbecilic, civil rights for toads, star-worshipping idiot brigade, who would happily beatify hitler if someone told them he was kind to small furry animals, it seems that the iconic photo taken after he had been dead a while - the christ-like one - made everyone think he was some sort of peace revolutionary. only reason he didn't kill as many peple as stalin or hitler or mao was that he was far less competent.

[finecigar]

A summary of a book titled "Exposing the Real Che Guevara and The Useful Idiots Who Idolize Him" wrote by Humberto Fontova.

Sounds interesting-Yet it is in quite an American point-of-view it sounds like there may be some logic inside of the book.

_________________________________________________________

Hollywood, Madison Avenue, and the mainstream media celebrate Che as a saint and a sex symbol - a selfless martyr with a love of humanity second only to Jesus Christ's.

But their ideas about Che - Fidel Castro's henchman whose face adorns hipsters' T-shirts, posters, and ad campaigns - are based on a murderous communist regime's outright lies.

As Humberto Fontova reveals in this myth-shattering book, Che was actually a bloodthirsty executioner, a military bumbler, a coward, and a hypocrite. This biographical account proves it's no exaggeration to state that Che - who was captured and killed nearly forty years ago - was the godfather of modern terrorism.

And yet Che's followers naively swallow Castro's historical revisionism. They are classic "useful idiots." the name Stalin gave to foolish Westerners who parroted his lies about communism's successes.

Humberto Fontova interviewed the few people still alive who interacted with Che and can tell the truth about him, while overturning the myths and legends. In this book you'll learn:

How Che longed to destroy New York City with nuclear missiles.

How Che promoted book burning and signed death warrants for authors who disagreed with him.

How Che made amazingly racist statements about blacks.

How Che persecuted gays, long-haired rock and roll fans, and religious people.

How Che, the devoted Communist, loved material wealth and private luxuries.

David Horowitz says: "A great service for the cause of decency and human freedom. Deservedly puts Che Guevara in the ash-heap of history. Every American should read this book."

[Van55]

A summary of a book titled "Exposing the Real Che Guevara and The Useful Idiots Who Idolize Him" wrote by Humberto Fontova.

Sounds interesting-Yet it is in quite an American point-of-view it sounds like there may be some logic inside of the book.

_________________________________________________________

Hollywood, Madison Avenue, and the mainstream media celebrate Che as a saint and a sex symbol - a selfless martyr with a love of humanity second only to Jesus Christ's.

But their ideas about Che - Fidel Castro's henchman whose face adorns hipsters' T-shirts, posters, and ad campaigns - are based on a murderous communist regime's outright lies.

As Humberto Fontova reveals in this myth-shattering book, Che was actually a bloodthirsty executioner, a military bumbler, a coward, and a hypocrite. This biographical account proves it's no exaggeration to state that Che - who was captured and killed nearly forty years ago - was the godfather of modern terrorism.

And yet Che's followers naively swallow Castro's historical revisionism. They are classic "useful idiots." the name Stalin gave to foolish Westerners who parroted his lies about communism's successes.

Humberto Fontova interviewed the few people still alive who interacted with Che and can tell the truth about him, while overturning the myths and legends. In this book you'll learn:

How Che longed to destroy New York City with nuclear missiles.

How Che promoted book burning and signed death warrants for authors who disagreed with him.

How Che made amazingly racist statements about blacks.

How Che persecuted gays, long-haired rock and roll fans, and religious people.

How Che, the devoted Communist, loved material wealth and private luxuries.

David Horowitz says: "A great service for the cause of decency and human freedom. Deservedly puts Che Guevara in the ash-heap of history. Every American should read this book."

My curiousity piqued by this thread I downloaded this book to my Kindle and have read a few chapters this evening. This book certainly portrays Guevara as inept, hypocritical, narcissistic and murderous. The author points out that Jon Lee Anderson wrote his 800 page biography while in Cuba, relying heavily on Guevara's "official Cuban diaries" and on input from Fidel and from Guevara's Cuban widow.

I suspect that the truth lies somewhere between the extremes of Che as revolutionary idol and Che as despotic executioner.

[mkz]

I was always disapointed that you couldn't by a single piece of merchandise with Castro's picture on it. I so badly wanted a t-shirt with Fidel smoking a Cohiba, but no such thing existed. Perhaps upon his death will the Fidel t-shirts begin to crop up.

Perhaps this one?

[demiurgic]

Once Che G's history is really studied from a perspective other than US political, it's clear that being a revolutionary is not a cut and dry business.

I specially like this group's (you know, the usual, El commandante, Che) answer to some tricky situations, like the liberation of some South African countries, sending resources (guns and doctors) to to fight Apartheid troops, and later Bolivia in Che's case, although he could have had a mightly cushy job in Fidel's cabinet.

I think he was the real deal and his heart had aloha from Granma days all the way to Bolivia. That's just me because I would not touch a spin doctor's story about Che, Gandhi or Nixon, with a 10 foot pole. They simply cannot "tell it like it is"

Is that from an online Tshirt place MKZ? It's rockin'

[Cmontoya79]

In my opinion, Che was a man who perhaps toward the end of his life was believing that this world was ready for his revolutionary ideals. To say that he was all bad would be false. He had the opportunity to be a wealthy elitist doctor in Argentina, instead he found a cause he believed was worth dying for. I'm not here to interpret what revolution means to you, but to Che it meant liberation, political, socio-economical, from the "Evil Empire" that is the United States and Capitalism. In my opinion Socialism and Capitalism can co-exist, Communism, Socialism, insert any Ism here. If you agree with him or not, that's a personal choice, There are many historical figures who are hailed as "American" Heroes as well, I would beg to differ, many of these legends/heroes are rapists, murderers, thieves, Indian killers, people such as:Christopher Houston "Kit" Carson, Daniel Boone, soooo.. it is all open to interpretation. All in all I may not agree with 100% of what Che did in his life, but I do believe it is humbling to give up a life of luxury to struggle for something you believe in.

Peace.

C