Cohiba Gran Reserva

[KB24]

What would a full box of these kept at ideal conditions for 5 years or 10 years or 15 be worth in everyone's opinion? Thinking about getting a box for investment reasons.

-Patrick

[El Presidente]

What would a full box of these kept at ideal conditions for 5 years or 10 years or 15 be worth in everyone's opinion? Thinking about getting a box for investment reasons.

-Patrick

Tad too early to say. I think it reasonable to expect $2000 - $2500 a box in that 5 year period.

[Bartolomeo]

Great question and great answer

My guess is you dont see many reviews right now of the GR b/c they were just released and people are letting them settle in their humis before sampling or frankly not smoking them at all and waiting for the right moment

Bart

[habanohal]

Great question and great answer

My guess is you dont see many reviews right now of the GR b/c they were just released and people are letting them settle in their humis before sampling or frankly not smoking them at all and waiting for the right moment

Bart

My best guess is worth double by 2 years time,if you can sit on them and resist the temptation of torchin them

[aavkk]

And as a follow-up question to Patrick's original post, does the CGR NEED to be a 97-100 point cigar consistently to realize such a ROI? If so, then that's a huge risk to undertake at this moment even with the outstanding praise.

[PigFish]

I think the entry price makes the investment risk rather high. I believe the investment risk potential goes up substantially with issue price. But in fairness I thought VR Jubes were expensive (yet considerably less than these) and their value today is substantially higher than the issue price.

As they say, only bet what you want to win! -Piggy

[zuma]

I have often wondered about the value of investing in cigars; that is, cigars intended to be sold to someone else later.

Here, I speculate that some 10 years from today, I would probably decline to buy at perceived market value from a source other than a trustworthy purveyor, for I would be concerned with the provenance of the cigars, and with whether they have been kept in optimum storage conditions. But then I have no experience with such dealings, and the voices in my head are all of paranoid demons ("just because you're paranoid doen't mean they're not after you")... so, this leads me to question why would anyone want to pay me market value for a box of fancy sticks (without me having built a reputation in the business)?.

To me the only way that I can see myself "investing" in cigars like the CGR would have to be as personal investment in future satisfaction... rather than monetary satisfaction. Oh, and if I had the dough I would be buying a box, and then I would be praying that no catastrophe comes to them

[Guest rob]

I know this doesn't answer the original question - but I do not think it wise to buy cigars solely for the purpose of investment.

If on the other hand you purchase a box to consume, that just so happens to appreciate in value... then that is a different scenario all together.

[Colt45]

I would probably decline to buy at perceived market value from a source other than a trustworthy purveyor, for I would be concerned with the provenance of the cigars, and with whether they have been kept in optimum storage conditions.

Absolutely - proof of provenance would be a must. Also, until more reviews of these come in, there is the gamble of general production

not being worthy of the early hype, and that they end up devalued. Of course, rarity in and of itself could keep prices elevated - though

we know how Habanos likes to re-issue limited editions

[aavkk]

Absolutely - proof of provenance would be a must. Also, until more reviews of these come in, there is the gamble of general production

not being worthy of the early hype, and that they end up devalued. Of course, rarity in and of itself could keep prices elevated - though

we know how Habanos likes to re-issue limited editions

this hits on a couple of questions I had, all of which seem to need to be aligned to realize such a quick 100% ROI. It seems you NEED to not have HSA re-issue these with similar quality, you NEED to have credibility with any prospective buyers that may have choices where to buy these from, you NEED to be sure that these cigars are consistently delivering 97-100 point experiences. Anything less than perfect at this point leaves even a bigger hill to climb to realize 3k a box. Personally, I would rather buy all of the great smoking disconinued stuff from 02 both as an investment and for smoking pleasure.

[PigFish]

I have often wondered about the value of investing in cigars; that is, cigars intended to be sold to someone else later.

Here, I speculate that some 10 years from today, I would probably decline to buy at perceived market value from a source other than a trustworthy purveyor, for I would be concerned with the provenance of the cigars, and with whether they have been kept in optimum storage conditions. But then I have no experience with such dealings, and the voices in my head are all of paranoid demons ("just because you're paranoid doen't mean they're not after you")... so, this leads me to question why would anyone want to pay me market value for a box of fancy sticks (without me having built a reputation in the business)?.

To me the only way that I can see myself "investing" in cigars like the CGR would have to be as personal investment in future satisfaction... rather than monetary satisfaction. Oh, and if I had the dough I would be buying a box, and then I would be praying that no catastrophe comes to them

I am only speculating because I don't know all the members here but most of us don't make up or possess the mindset of the buyer. As a result it is difficult to see though their eyes. The people who will buy multiple boxes of these cigars today without regard to price are the same personality types to buy them in the future. In many cases they will be newer to cigars, with money in hand, trying to make up for lost time or looking for the best to be had, NOW. You would have to meet some "top tier" cigar buyers to understand what I am talking about. Price is not a deciding factor for these folks but the cigar must have at least a perceived reputation. The money is not really a consideration. Getting them first might be one of them however.

I think these folks may manifest Rob's (RA) thoughts when he ostensibly defends these cigars on the board. I mean many of us, nit picky old hens, squawking about the price of this and the value of that are not the target market of these cigars. Saying that aloud by our favorite vendor may come across as disrespectful of us, his clientele, so perhaps he does not say it in such a way. Not saying it does not deny their existence! The fact remains that there are a large number of these cigars that will be bought right outta' the gate by these very people.

It is nice to have my front row seat and I am waiting for the play to begin!!! -Piggy

[android]

What would a full box of these kept at ideal conditions for 5 years or 10 years or 15 be worth in everyone's opinion? Thinking about getting a box for investment reasons.

-Patrick

Great question Patrick! Difficult decision to make if for investment purposes...many more factors need to be thought out for an investment vs. personnel consumption.

My first thought is that of Rob's...way to early to tell!

What expectations do you have for ROI? (double in ten years?... NOT GOING TO HAPPEN)

HSA not understanding the term LE!!!!!

Source of the cigar?

Very limited client base for future sale!

What will a 10 yr. old box of the original 2003 Siglo VI release be worth?

Let us know what you decide and your thoughts on the feedback.

[SamuraiJack]

I don't know how in the world I would ever be able to have a box of GR's and not smoke em.

[Mr. Japan]

Cohiba sells easy but the investment on this box will depend on how fast the 5000 made will be sold from the shops in this bad economy. If this six million dollars business end up fast then your box wil start having value.

How much is today, after five years the value of Partagas GRD4? I think very close to teh double of original price.

Monte 4GR are still out there.

[Yoruba Hacker]

Cohiba sells easy but the investment on this box will depend on how fast the 5000 made will be sold from the shops in this bad economy. If this six million dollars business end up fast then your box wil start having value.

How much is today, after five years the value of Partagas GRD4? I think very close to teh double of original price.

Monte 4GR are still out there.

I think this is a very important point. 5000 is a lot of boxes at that price point. I don't think scarcity will be an issue in a short while after the initial fervor dies down. Particularly if you start getting some folks reviewing it on the web and elsewhere questioning value (if not taste). Plus the price point is going to drive a lot of splits. Takes a whole lotta box splits to eat into that 5000, I would think.

Point is, they're great cigars, and it's worth having a box or many to smoke cause they're great cigars, but I'm not altogether signed up for buying these as an investment. It ain't like they are great cigars and there are only 500 of them in the whole world like the Habanos Collection offerings. I can't think of any cigars at this price point where there are 5000 boxes of them available. There's a reason for that, phenomenal viral marketing notwithstanding.

Buy 'em and smoke 'em pal. They're really good.

[thechenman]

I would have to agree with many of the posts here. Buy the Cohiba GR if you are interested in smoking them, but not as an investment. In terms of ROI, there are much better investments out there with significantly less risk. I don't wish to offend anyone here...but cigars in general are a poor investment for the typical investor. If you are a collector, who is not overly concerned with value...that is a different story. However, there aren't to many people that are as financially irresponsible as some of us collectors out there.

Believe me...I know what I'm talking about here. As a vintage baseball card collecter, I have spent over $14K putting together a set of 1980 Topps baseball cards (for sentimental purposes). I am only about 70% of the way complete with this set, as I am trying to build it in perfect condition. The real kicker is that you can probably walk into any card store in the U.S. and purchase this entire run of cards for $100 or less if you didn't care about condition.

[Van55]

As others have pointed out, there are 5000 boxes of these in the initial release, and they are already selling as if they are a "vintage" item worthy of a significant premium. So the investment value is dubious to me, especially if HSA has a second release of them ala the Dantes Edumudos and the Bolivar GMs.

On the other hand, I thought the price of the PSD4 Reservas was ridiculous, and they are now selling on the secondary market at a significant premium over the initial asking price.

[CigarmanTim]

With this price point I imagine these would be a prime candidate for fakes.

[dicko]

I would have to agree with many of the posts here. Buy the Cohiba GR if you are interested in smoking them, but not as an investment. In terms of ROI, there are much better investments out there with significantly less risk. I don't wish to offend anyone here...but cigars in general are a poor investment for the typical investor. If you are a collector, who is not overly concerned with value...that is a different story. However, there aren't to many people that are as financially irresponsible as some of us collectors out there.

Believe me...I know what I'm talking about here. As a vintage baseball card collecter, I have spent over $14K putting together a set of 1980 Topps baseball cards (for sentimental purposes). I am only about 70% of the way complete with this set, as I am trying to build it in perfect condition. The real kicker is that you can probably walk into any card store in the U.S. and purchase this entire run of cards for $100 or less if you didn't care about condition.

I agree with this sentiment 100%. Its not like I have the money to do it anyway but investment in cigars sounds like mixing business and pleasure. It seems each vendor is only going to get X amount of boxes anyway, so it would be difficult to get your hands on enough stock to make it a profitable venture (and indeed it would be risky anyway). By the time you factor in storage costs etc its not looking good. Guess it doesn't answer the original post but life's too short for trading cigars for profit. If someone gave me a box they would go up in smoke, over a few years for special occasions or whatever but they are definitely getting smoked!