I was speaking to a habanos old timer yesterday.

[SethG]

I miss the tobacco from the mid and late 90's. I can taste it instantly but have so few left. The 70's I missed I'm afraid but I can feel your pain!

I would agree that nationalization has created a ridiculous similarity in the base sticks but exotica seems often to be more unique.

I see the point that the flavors age so us newer smokers miss out on the real joy from those years.

[demiurgic]

God, Guy started smoking a decade before I was even born!

LOL~ awesome. I feel a bit of your nostalgia. (was raised on fine European Products that are not available in the US, and unfortunately, most people wouldnt even know the difference)

I agree that Nothing makes up for an individual's passion for their work in in the world, but is there anything noteworthy in recent production that one might find reminiscent of that old Cuban taste I have heard of?

Most Kids my age will never try a Dunhill or even anything past a decade or so.

Perhaps we missed out once and for all? I am quite bummed I missed out on the 60's actually...

guess it's older Habanos and 60's from now on.

[MontrealRon]

Milles mercis, Guy, pour vos souvenirs et sages conseils.

Thanks, gents, for all the fascinating posts.

[cigaraholic]

I started smoking Havanas in the Summer of 1970 and it was love at first puff. I think the biggest difference from the past is the intensity of the tobacco and the consistency of the cigars. When I opened a box and smoked a cigar I knew that every cigar in that box would taste the same. Today it's a rollacoaster, some good some very good and some great. Today it's rare to have a box where every cigar is equal. In the wine business we say "great wine is made in the vinyard" and I believe it's the same with cigars. It comes down to farming and Cuba has not had the ecomnic resourses to maintain quality. Rob wouldn't have needed to have a priemium select program 40 years ago and eveything seemed to smoke great right away. Today it's a bit of a crap shoot but when you get a seven it's heaven.

[laficion]

I started smoking Havanas in the Summer of 1970 and it was love at first puff.

Hi cigaraholic,

It's great to here from someone who also started smoking cigars in 1970,

I was starting to feel like some animal going into extinction

You are right on the fact that in the old days,

( starting to sound like an old frontiers'man )

every cigar from a box were good and consistent, I think that my

first plugged cigar was in the mid or late 80's; never before. I'm sure

that it has to do with the fact that a lot of rollers were still from the old school.

When these rollers retiered, Cuba started a large scale accelerated training program

that brought a massive flow of young rollers into the factories. the difference was

that the old rollers took many years to acquire the art of rolling whereas the young rollers

were hurried in a program that , even today, takes only a year or two, with only just

that, it makes a whole difference.

Then again, it's just us old timers blabing away on the good old days, n'est pas ?

[Colt45]

Guy, 'Holic (and anyone else), aside from new rollers, do we know when they started the practice of putting all the days cigars, from the

various rollers together and then sorting, boxing etc? Or has this always been pretty much standard practice?

Was it done differently in the past - roller x rolls churchills all day, all his cigars get boxed together, roller y the same?

[Stalebread]

It's great to here from someone who also started smoking cigars in 1970,

. . .

Then again, it's just us old timers blabing away on the good old days, n'est pas ?

This is a great thread.

As an old timer, I started smoking cigars around 1968/69. It's just that they were machine made cigars that, at the time, were still made in my home state of W. Va. So all I can do is commiserate with the other old timers.

[CaptainQuintero]

Just be re-reading this thread and it needs a bump to let people read it again or for the first time, such great information!

[Rushman]

Agreed CQ. Great read.

---

I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=20.631719,-87.070653

[gigabyte056]

Cloying means too much of one thing, sweet in small measures can be good, too much and you feel sick...

[stargazer14]

Being one who enjoys the role of Devil's Avocate every now and then, I will throw out the idea that maybe the cigars haven't changed, maybe its the person enjoying them that has changed.

Example, when you met that love of your life you could speak all day of the wonderful things this woman (...or man) brought into your life, the floral scents, the sweetness, the creamy flavors.... but 40 years later these feelings might be a bit harder to flood off the tongue.

Who's to say that 40 years of enjoying the worlds best smokes has not dulled those taste buds that so easily sent all those amazing flavors to your brain.

(And not to mention what has happened to that brain in those decades!)

So with all respect to thoughts of Guy, whose words I have soaked in in my time on this forum, I want to just toss the idea that maybe those youngsters smoking today just might be getting the best of Cuba. Let's ask THEM in 40 years what they think.

[Livo]

Thanks for bumping the thread. Really interesting.

[El Presidente]

Being one who enjoys the role of Devil's Avocate every now and then, I will throw out the idea that maybe the cigars haven't changed, maybe its the person enjoying them that has changed.

Example, when you met that love of your life you could speak all day of the wonderful things this woman (...or man) brought into your life, the floral scents, the sweetness, the creamy flavors.... but 40 years later these feelings might be a bit harder to flood off the tongue.

Who's to say that 40 years of enjoying the worlds best smokes has not dulled those taste buds that so easily sent all those amazing flavors to your brain.

(And not to mention what has happened to that brain in those decades!)

So with all respect to thoughts of Guy, whose words I have soaked in in my time on this forum, I want to just toss the idea that maybe those youngsters smoking today just might be getting the best of Cuba. Let's ask THEM in 40 years what they think.

Nice post

Let alone the fact that tobacco strains are completely different.

Some of the crappiest cigars of all out of Cuba were produced in the 40's and 50's when the "big boys" bought factory after factory. Guy has posted some great articles on the subject.

Smoking an aged Dip 4 (08). it is sweet, lush and great. It is the profile I prefer.

[demiurgic]

Nice post

Let alone the fact that tobacco strains are completely different.

Some of the crappiest cigars of all out of Cuba were produced in the 40's and 50's when the "big boys" bought factory after factory. Guy has posted some great articles on the subject.

Smoking an aged Dip 4 (08). it is sweet, lush and great. It is the profile I prefer.

Any of these gorgeous Dip 4's around in the humidor Rob? lol! Had to ask!

[Dbone]

But the part that stands out the most today is the

the fact that the brands do not have that big difference that they had between them at the time.

they really had a blend that did not vary.

Today , it can be very easy to mistake a brand for another if it doesn't have the ring on.

That's why,today,a blind test on Habanos can be very interesting.

While I started smoking cuban cigars in 2008, I have felt this way most of my journey. And the blind test on Habanos would be much more interesting if the cigars were custom rolled vitola but with each brands blend. Now, one can narrow the brands simply by identifying the vitola, and take it from there.

However, the statement you made Guy may have backfired on Habanos in regards to me personally. I think to myself, why pay more for a cigar if they're all going to taste the same? Granted I have a few boxes of Bolivars which I would like to believe I could identify blind, and some others. But speaking in general terms, I have grown into a smoker of Habanos who rips the band(s) off and either enjoy the smoke or don't enjoy the smoke.... identity is almost always lost. Purchase price does not equate to flavor value. This fact becomes even more relevant when you strip away the individual blends for each brand. So, guess one could say for this reason I've became a shopper who buys cheap, look for deals, and shy away from Poster brands, Limited Releases, etc... Robs PSP program not included... I gauge different value in that program. Probably not the mold Habanos wanted to squeeze me into.

I do seek the identity you speak of, Guy. This very well may explain why my personal inventory is all over the place. I have a little bit of everything, because I just can't find the identity to grab on to and call myself an RjY guy or Upmann. Because as it stands now, I'm an <insert every brand> dude. Yes, I've enjoyed Cuaba too! Wish I could go back in time to experience the fresh cigars rolled out of the warehouses in the 70's, 80's and 90's.

Please don't misunderstand me. I really don't know any better, so the cuban cigars I smoke today can put me on cloud 9. I'm not going to lament on the past as it relates to the present. I'm nearly at the point were most all of the cigars in my possession, are cigars I enjoy.

Kudos Pres, great topic.... filled with great content.

[bassman]

Nice post

Let alone the fact that tobacco strains are completely different.

Some of the crappiest cigars of all out of Cuba were produced in the 40's and 50's when the "big boys" bought factory after factory. Guy has posted some great articles on the subject.

Smoking an aged Dip 4 (08). it is sweet, lush and great. It is the profile I prefer.

Those 08 Diplo #4s are yonderful cigars- yet the 08 Diplo #5s do nothing for me at all.

[CaptainQuintero]

I'm deff a young cigar smoker and relatively new to cigars, from what I gather it seems the older cigars used to be rich and bold. Generally modern Cubans don't seem to have that quality apart from a dozen or so cigars, such as the BRC. This seems down to more quality of leaf being used than anything else. EG grab a HQ/PSP box from Rob of any vitola of any marca and you are pretty much guarenteed to have a rich and bold smoke. But grab a box of RyJ, Punch, Fonseca, Cuaba, Monte, Partagas, SCDLH etc etc blind today and you are more than likely to get a box which while may be good, won't have that delicious oily richness.

The exception seems to be Upmann who are making some fantastic cigars, maybe they are just getting the best leaf more often? It would be interesting to see what the erst of the catalogue would be like if all the factories were given the high quality tobacco that the Upmann crew have been getting.

In my mind unless you can get your hands on a box prior to buying, Rob is essentially a time-machine who can get you the famous rich Cuban cigar.

So maybe it is all just down to the ups and downs of tobacco quality being used across Cuba today? The old smokers may still be affected from the 'bad times' and this taints their experience nowadays a little? It's like if you find a hair in your dinner, you will never quite enjoy the rest of your meal even if the chef takes away your plate and brings you a brand new serving!

The good thigns is that it seems the quality of tobacco is improving, it's not widespread by anymeans but what Upmann have been producing just shows what can be done, it just takes time.

[Colt45]

The old smokers may still be affected from the 'bad times' and this taints their experience nowadays a little?

I don't take Guy's thoughts as the lamentation of days gone by, but mainly as thoughts on loss of brand identity - that the various marques

taste more alike to one another than they used to:

Today , it can be very easy to mistake a brand for another if it doesn't have the ring on.

That's why,today,a blind test on Habanos can be very interesting.

[Blakes]

Wow! Just found this thread, what a great read! Thanks guys!

[nikesupremedunk]

Very interesting thread indeed. I thought it was just me that couldn't really tell the marques apart. Hell, I even find the flavors to be very different from vitola to vitola of the same marque. My journey of habanos started in 2012, and while I never got to experience the glory days of the 70's-90's, I think it will be something I will look back to 30-40 years from now and say "those were the days". To me CC's are still the best around and I hope they will be for many years to come.

[smokum]

Glad this was resurrected ! But it shows me how long I have been out of commission. Nothing in my humi is post 2007. I do believe I can still taste the difference between each marque. Although the leaf itself has changed over the the years the blends should still be rather unique to the marque no ? Different than the flavor of leaf of years gone by ,but the brands should still have a unique blend that sets them aprt from each other. If the brands are tasting more generic would this not be a quality control issue with the blend not being strictly adhered to for that unique profile ?

[Colt45]

Although the leaf itself has changed over the the years the blends should still be rather unique to the marque no ?

Smokey!

Sorry your ordeal was so drawn out, but great to see you back

I've come around to generally feeling that Cuban cigars share common traits and perhaps are more similar to each other than they are widely differing.

A kind of vanilla wafer core or at least undertone, and then ancillary elements that make each cigar / marque a little unique.

[smokum]

Thanks C45. I see you are a mod ! Have fun with that. I was blessed to be one on a very high end muscle car site for many years. Scars have healed now. Tough gig at times.

I agree there is that old familiar twang in the background that makes us know it is without a doubt a real CC as soon as we torch one. The fun part is the differences that we all come to expect between brands i.e. a Partagas vs. Cohiba. I hope that is not being lost. Maybe El Prez ( Happy Feet) should pick 3 of his best palates and send 3 or 4 sticks each of 4 different brands and see if the good ole profiles are still easily discernible !

[Colt45]

Maybe El Prez ( Happy Feet) should pick 3 of his best palates and send 3 or 4 sticks each of 4 different brands and see if the good ole profiles are still easily discernible !

Rob has actually run a couple of blind tastings theses past couple of years - with some interesting results.

A title search using blind will show you the threads, if you're interested.

[smokum]

And I did just that Colt. Very interesting. So maybe there is hope that the blenders are doing their job.